rapture question

[Bible2]

Hey Garry2
Im not really sure about what post tribbers think.
Could you fill me in? Do they think they flit off to
heaven (in the twinkling of an eye) or off to
somewhere on this earth? Just curious.

Post-tribbers believe that the rapture will take all
Christians into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air
at His second coming.

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of
the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For
the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise
first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be
caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

"The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our
gathering together unto him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1).

This will happen after the tribulation.

"After the tribulation ... they shall see the Son of
man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and
great glory. And he shall send his angels with a
great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather
together his elect" (Matthew 24:29-31).

"After that tribulation ... then shall they see the
Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and
glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall
gather together his elect from the four winds, from
the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part
of heaven" (Mark 13:24-27).

This is why Christians will still be on the earth
during the coming tribulation.

"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and
shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations
for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended,
and shall betray one another, and shall hate one
another. And many false prophets shall rise, and
shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall
abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that
shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved"
(Matthew 24:9-13).

"Here is the patience and the faith of the saints"
(Revelation 13:10).

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they
that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of
Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Some Christians will escape the coming tribulation
by dying before it starts.

"The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to
heart: and merciful men are taken away, none
considering that the righteous is taken away from the
evil to come" (Isaiah 57:1).

Other Christians, like Lot, will escape the coming
tribulation by going into protected places on the
earth, in the mountains, the wilderness.

"They that escape of them shall escape, and shall be
on the mountains" (Ezekiel 7:16).

"Flee into the mountains" (Matthew 24:16).

"She might fly into the wilderness, into her place,
where she is nourished for a time, and times, and
half a time, from the face of the serpent"
(Revelation 12:14).

By the time of the vials of God's wrath, at the end
of the tribulation (Revelation 16), Christians still
alive on the earth will, like Noah, enter into
protective constructions which they'll have built on
the earth.

"Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and
shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were
for a little moment, until the indignation be
overpast" (Isaiah 26:20).

 

[WailingWall]

Exd 19:10 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. (2 days) Have them wash their clothes
Exd 19:11 and be ready by the third day, because on that day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.
Exd 19:12 Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not go up the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.
Exd 19:13 He shall surely be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on him. Whether man or animal, he shall not be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram's horn sounds a long blast may they go up to the mountain.”
Exd 19:14 After Moses had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and they washed their clothes.
Exd 19:15 Then he said to the people, “Prepare yourselves for the third day. Abstain from sexual relations.”
Exd 19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled.
Exd 19:17 Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.
Exd 19:18 Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently,
Exd 19:19 and the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder. Then Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.


It is a type of the gathering to God. It is Jesus (Moses in the type) that consecrated us. It is Jesus (Moses in the type)that leads us. What are we expecting? A trumpet blast and then Jesus leads us to God after we have "washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb" for two days on God's calendar. We are expecting God to come down on the morning of the 3rd day.

Everything that is written in the Bible has meaning. When Jesus said he'd rise on the 3rd day, when the Good Samaritan (Jesus) gives the innkeeper (the church) two days wages and then says, "I'll come again and repay you" (he expected to be gone two days), there's a reason for everything said in the Word...sometimes more than one meaning.

Hosea 6 [2] After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

HE WILL RAISE US UP! Its the rapture! So instead of the 2 days mentioned in Hosea, which is speaking of when Christ will return, we look at the full 7 days

Joshua 6 [12] And Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the ark of the Lord. [13] And seven priests bearing seven trumpets of rams' horns BEFORE THE ARK OF THE LORD went on continually, and blew with the trumpets: and the armed men went before them; but the rereward came after the ark of the Lord, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. [14] And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned into the camp: so they did six days. [15] And it came to pass on the SEVENTH DAY, THAT THEY ROSE EARLY about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times. [16] And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with THE TRUMPETS, Joshua said unto the people, SHOUT; for the Lord hath given you the city.
So here to we have a type of rapture (according to somebody no doubt)

We got it happening early the 7th day
Weve got a SHOUT.
Weve got a TRUMPET
Weve got the CITY being given to us

This was fun, but still no rapture mentioned. I dont mean to make light of your idea that when two days (and the such) are mentioned, that theres a reason and that that may have more meaning. I also believe this. But in order for you to come to the conclusions you do, you must 1st believe that 1 Cor.15 and 1Thes.4 are speaking of a rapture and go from there. They are simply "Day of the Lord" scriptures. Easily proved.

 

[WailingWall]

Post-tribbers believe that the rapture will take all Christians into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His second coming.

My question was, where do you believe they go from there? To heaven or do they stay here on earth?

 

[johnd]

...I found the flaw in all three major camps of eschatology.

Up to that point it did not make sense to me that three opposing points of view could all support their claims with scripture. Scripture is not contradictory and God who inspired scripture is not the author of confusion.

The problem was (as it always is) with human understanding. We are like the small child who describes all the functions of Daddy's new car. The turn signals, according to the youngster, indicate when the police want Daddy to slow down... etc.

This is what limited, feeble minded humanity has done with the living word of the omniscience God.

The irony of eschatology is that all three camps are correct about their positions. Where they are wrong is in their understanding of the setting (Daniel's 70th Week).

It is a seven year period, but it is not one seven year tribulation. It is two 3.5 year tribulations. The first is when the beast gains power and rids the world of Christianity.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I have in the past presumed Christians would be hunted down to the point of near extinction and be so deep in hiding that when the rapture takes place no one else on earth will be aware of its taking place. But here we see the sign of the Lord in the clouds and the world mourning. Note that he does not return yet. He does not come to earth but sends his angels to gather the elect (the remaining believers from the four winds).

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The end of history in this life will be X. Note that this is not date setting because a date is not mentioned. It is time frame references that when certain things happen these events are to follow in a timely fashion as prescribed by the word of God.

1290 days from X is when the beast shall take away the sacrifices from the Jewish temple he built.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The covenant here and elsewhere in Daniel is the Jewish Mosaic covenant which Jesus fulfilled and superseded with the New Covenant in his blood. It is not just a treaty of peace but an affirmation of pre-Christ Judaism (or actually the run amok Judaism which opposed Christ by the time he came). See Matthew 13 realizing the parables are about Israel and Judaism and the tares and leaven adulterated what God intended to usher in the Messiah with a royal welcome.

In the midst of that week of years the beast will renege on the Jews and move spiritual HQ to Babylon.

Zechariah 5:5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. 6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. 7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. 10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? 11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.

The time of the rapture (Daniel 12:11-12) is Y. Y is 1335 days into the 70th week of Daniel... approximately 105 days after the beast defiles the temple in Jerusalem and turns the world toward revived Neo-Babylonianism.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Then begins the unraveling of the one world order described in Daniel and the plagues described in Revelation (once the Church is raptured out of the way):

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience {remember Revelation 13:10}, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Then the Jews will oppose the beast the way the Christians had in the first tribulation. This will draw global resentment more than they have ever experienced before because the beast will campaign that their opposition is what is causing the unraveling of his order and the suffering of the people on earth. And at the end the world gathers in the plains of Jezreel to destroy the remnant of Israel... and then Jesus returns on the Mount of Olives to defend the Jews.

SO...

The 70th Week of Daniel is roughly 7 years long consisting of two tribulation periods of about 3 and a half years each. The believer's tribulation / the time of the patience of the saints... and the great tribulation / the time of Jacob's trouble.

The one rapture will take place:

pre-Great Tribulation
mid-70ths Week of Daniel
post-Believer's Tribulation.

So all three camps and the scriptures they quote are right. Mankind just misunderstood the time frame (the 70th Week of Daniel).

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hosea 6 [2] After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

HE WILL RAISE US UP! Its the rapture! So instead of the 2 days mentioned in Hosea, which is speaking of when Christ will return, we look at the full 7 days

Joshua 6 [12] And Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the ark of the Lord. [13] And seven priests bearing seven trumpets of rams' horns BEFORE THE ARK OF THE LORD went on continually, and blew with the trumpets: and the armed men went before them; but the rereward came after the ark of the Lord, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. [14] And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned into the camp: so they did six days. [15] And it came to pass on the SEVENTH DAY, THAT THEY ROSE EARLY about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times. [16] And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with THE TRUMPETS, Joshua said unto the people, SHOUT; for the Lord hath given you the city.
So here to we have a type of rapture (according to somebody no doubt)

We got it happening early the 7th day
Weve got a SHOUT.
Weve got a TRUMPET
Weve got the CITY being given to us

This was fun, but still no rapture mentioned. I dont mean to make light of your idea that when two days (and the such) are mentioned, that theres a reason and that that may have more meaning. I also believe this. But in order for you to come to the conclusions you do, you must 1st believe that 1 Cor.15 and 1Thes.4 are speaking of a rapture and go from there. They are simply "Day of the Lord" scriptures. Easily proved.

Hosea 6 is talking about the restoration of Israel. After two days (about 2000 years) He will revive them as a nation, ON the third day He will raise them so that they live in His sight. It's happening even now.

Joshua 6 is not talking about a people consecrated to God, being led into the presence of God at the sound of a Trumpet after washing their clothes for two days. Exodus 19 is and it compares to Rev 7, the people who are seen standing before the throne, wearing the robes washed in the blood of the Lamb have come out of a Great Tribulation. Those white robes were given to the souls under the altar PRIOR to (5th seal) the earthquake/sun/moon/stars darkening (6th seal) which begins the judgment and wrath of God according to Rev 6.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

At some point, John 14 must come true.

Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.



Our citizenship is in heaven. God has prepared a city for us there. At some point, Jesus is going to appear and take us live there.

Phl 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Phl 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.



Hbr 11:16Instead, they were longing for a better country-a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.


Tts 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Tts 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hmmm...I kinda like that scenario, "johnd"...except for this:

The seals of Revelation.

The 5th seal = giving of white robes
The 6th seal = earthquake, sun, moon, stars darkening
The 7th seal = silence in/from heaven for 1/2 hour (3 1/2 years), then trumpets 1-6, bowls 1-6, seventh bowl & trumpet.

(side note: How do I know 1/2 hour= 3 1/2 years? Rev 17, the ten kings give power to beast for one hour & we know from Daniel 9:27 that the covenant with many is for the final week of years, 7 years)

The 144,000 are sealed on earth prior to the 1st trumpet while the multitude is already in heaven.

(side note: How do I know sealed prior to the 1st trumpet? Rev 7 says do not hurt the land, sea or trees until they are sealed & Rev 8 says the 1st and 2nd trumpet hurt the land, sea and trees. They are also shown as protected during the 5th trumpet. So the 144,000 are there, on earth, for the trumpets which are after the 3 1/2 years of silence from heaven.- which would also be after the 3 1/2 years of the two witnesses prophesying, right?)

We know that the two witnesses are calling down plagues while they are prophesying. These plagues are similar to the trumpets. The beast kills them and they are raptured after they have prophesied for 3 1/2 years.

(side note: It's interesting that Rev 11 says that the beast out of the abyss is the one who kills the two witnesses...is that the same as 9:11 (Apollyon/Abbadon) or is it the beast.)

THe 144,000 are seen in heaven at one point as well, having been redeemed from the earth but it never says they've been killed.

hmmm....

 

[johnd]

Maybe I am just being dense today... but I do not see how that negates what I posted.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Maybe I am just being dense today... but I do not see how that negates what I posted.

No, not really trying to negate...just trying to think it through...test what you are saying...

The earthquake/sun/moon/stars darken at the 6th seal, prior to the 7th seal which is 1/2 hour silence, trumpets, and bowls.

The white robes are given in the 5th seal prior to 6th and 7th seal. Those white robes appear to indicate the rapture/glorified bodies...especially in light of the fact that the multitude is seen in heaven wearing them prior to 144,000 sealed on earth.

This leads me to believe that the multitude is in heaven before judgment and wrath even begin.

Rev 3:10 says God is going to keep some people from the hour of trial that tests those who live on the earth.

Rev 2 says that God is allowing the devil to test people:

Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.


So, some are here and are tested while others don't need to be tested.

 

[WailingWall]

Hello HisDaughterJen
Id like to know. Do you believe the Day of the Lord is after the trib period.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hello HisDaughterJen
Id like to know. Do you believe the Day of the Lord is after the trib period.

I believe that the Day of the Lord is that last 1000 years prior to eternity when the New Jerusalem comes down, Jesus hands everything back to the Father.

I believe that Jesus returns on the morning of the 3rd day (very early in the 3rd millenium). Good morning, by the way!

I tend to believe that we have been enduring the great tribulation since Christ ascended (the first four seals) and all that's left is for the earthquake/sun/moon/stars -beginning of judgment and wrath.

I tend to believe that the catching away of those who are His (who are kept from the hour of trial (7 years) that will come upon the whole earth) or the 5th seal, is the beginning of Jesus' return/involvement in a tangible way in the affairs of mankind/destruction of the ungodly.

I believe that the final years of judgment and wrath are truly a test. It is all orchestrated to make people choose once and for all whom they will serve. From the time of the catching away, to the rise of the anti-christ guy, false miracles, the mark, threat of imprisonment or death unless you worship the bad guy, it's all forcing people to choose, to get on one side or the other. Do you want life know or do you believe that there is a God and choose life with Him after your body dies, knowing that He's in control? That's a choice people generally don't want to make...it takes faith in God.

After Christ physically returns, then there's about 993 years (more or less) until the New Jerusalem comes down and Jesus turns everything back over to the Father.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

People call the final seven years the "great tribulation" and it will be a great tribulation, but it is actually the time of judgment and wrath (and testing) for the whole world. It is a time that those who have NOW chosen Christ will be kept from.

 

[johnd]

No, not really trying to negate...just trying to think it through...test what you are saying...

The earthquake/sun/moon/stars darken at the 6th seal, prior to the 7th seal which is 1/2 hour silence, trumpets, and bowls.

The white robes are given in the 5th seal prior to 6th and 7th seal. Those white robes appear to indicate the rapture/glorified bodies...especially in light of the fact that the multitude is seen in heaven wearing them prior to 144,000 sealed on earth.

This leads me to believe that the multitude is in heaven before judgment and wrath even begin.

Which is within the parameters of what I posted. Believers have been under the devil's gun and the world's gun since the beginning of time. It's the judgment / wrath of God that we will be spared.

Rev 3:10 says God is going to keep some people from the hour of trial that tests those who live on the earth.

Rev 2 says that God is allowing the devil to test people:

Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Which as I recall the general outline of the book of Revelation takes place in the first 42 months / 1260 days / time, times, and 1/2 a time and is mentioned before the break in chapter 4. Also the mention in chapter 12 hints prophetically to the cross "now is come salvation" indicating the middle eastern mindset of Revelation even though the western language of commerce is used (secular koine Greek)... in which a storyline tends to loop back around to benchmarks or pegs.

So, some are here and are tested while others don't need to be tested.

Or, as I said, the historic trials and tribulations of the saints comes to a head in the first 3.5 years of the 70th Week of Daniel in the form of the wrath of Satan / humanity. And the Church is removed through persecution attrition or raptured out before God invokes his wrath on the world and Satan in the last 3.5 years.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Which is within the parameters of what I posted. Believers have been under the devil's gun and the world's gun since the beginning of time. It's the judgment / wrath of God that we will be spared.



Which as I recall the general outline of the book of Revelation takes place in the first 42 months / 1260 days / time, times, and 1/2 a time and is mentioned before the break in chapter 4. Also the mention in chapter 12 hints prophetically to the cross "now is come salvation" indicating the middle eastern mindset of Revelation even though the western language of commerce is used (secular koine Greek)... in which a storyline tends to loop back around to benchmarks or pegs.

Or, as I said, the historic trials and tribulations of the saints comes to a head in the first 3.5 years of the 70th Week of Daniel in the form of the wrath of Satan / humanity. And the Church is removed through persecution attrition or raptured out before God invokes his wrath on the world and Satan in the last 3.5 years.

Well, I tend to agree with just about everything but there are two clues that seem to indicate a catching away prior to or at the beginning of the 7 years of judgment and wrath.

1. Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.


"Hour" in Revelation appears to refer to the final week of years in Daniel.

Rev 17:12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
Rev 17:13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.



Dan 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”



We know, though, that the beast is only going to be in actual power for half that time. God allows 1/2 hour or 3 1/2 years for his reign.

Rev 8:1 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.


2. The 5th seal, giving of white robes, preceeds the 6th and 7th seals. The 7th seal includes the half hour of silence as well as trumpets and bowls which would also include beast and two witnesses.

 

[WailingWall]

I believe that the Day of the Lord is that last 1000 years prior to eternity when the New Jerusalem comes down, Jesus hands everything back to the Father.

I believe that Jesus returns on the morning of the 3rd day (very early in the 3rd millenium). Good morning, by the way!

Good morning to you to. Its a beutiful kinda warm, sunny sabbath day in great northeast. You believe the Day of the Lord lasts 1000 yrs?

ISAIAH 34 [2] For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[4] And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [8] For it is THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE, and the YEAR OF RECOMPENCES for the controversy of Zion.

The day of the Lord’s vengeance = the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

ISAIAH 63 [1]Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. [2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? [3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. [4] For THE DAY OF VENGEANCE is in mine heart, and THE YEAR OF MY REDEEMED IS COME.

For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

ISAIAH 61 [1] The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; [2] TO PROCLAIM THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD, AND THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD; to comfort all that mourn; [3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

JEREMIAH 48 [44] He that fleeth from the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that getteth up out of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for I will bring upon it, even upon Moab, the YEAR OF THEIR VISITATION, saith the Lord. [45] They that fled stood under the shadow of Heshbon because of the force: but a fire shall come forth out of Heshbon, and a flame from the midst of Sihon, and shall devour the corner of Moab, and the crown of the head of the tumultuous ones. [46] Woe be unto thee, O Moab! the people of Chemosh perisheth: for thy sons are taken captives, and thy daughters captives. [47] Yet will I bring again the captivity of Moab IN THE LATTER DAYS, saith the Lord. Thus far is the judgment of Moab.

JEREMIAH 23 [9] Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness. [10] For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right. [11] For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord. [12] Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the YEAR OF THEIR VISITATION, saith the Lord.

The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them ( Jer.23 v 5-8). This will be done in the twinkling of an eye. As for the bad guys “for I will bring evil upon them, EVEN THE YEAR OF THEIR VISITATION, saith the Lord”.

Luke 4 [17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, [18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [19] TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.
Well Jen

You never really answered my question. It was a yes or no question . Does the DOL come after trib? But anyways the above scriptures make it clear that it will not last a 1000 yrs.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Good morning to you to. Its a beutiful kinda warm, sunny sabbath day in great northeast. You believe the Day of the Lord lasts 1000 yrs?

ISAIAH 34 [2] For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[4] And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [8] For it is THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE, and the YEAR OF RECOMPENCES for the controversy of Zion.

The day of the Lord’s vengeance = the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

ISAIAH 63 [1]Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. [2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? [3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. [4] For THE DAY OF VENGEANCE is in mine heart, and THE YEAR OF MY REDEEMED IS COME.

For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

ISAIAH 61 [1] The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; [2] TO PROCLAIM THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD, AND THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD; to comfort all that mourn; [3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

JEREMIAH 48 [44] He that fleeth from the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that getteth up out of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for I will bring upon it, even upon Moab, the YEAR OF THEIR VISITATION, saith the Lord. [45] They that fled stood under the shadow of Heshbon because of the force: but a fire shall come forth out of Heshbon, and a flame from the midst of Sihon, and shall devour the corner of Moab, and the crown of the head of the tumultuous ones. [46] Woe be unto thee, O Moab! the people of Chemosh perisheth: for thy sons are taken captives, and thy daughters captives. [47] Yet will I bring again the captivity of Moab IN THE LATTER DAYS, saith the Lord. Thus far is the judgment of Moab.

JEREMIAH 23 [9] Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness. [10] For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right. [11] For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord. [12] Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the YEAR OF THEIR VISITATION, saith the Lord.

The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them ( Jer.23 v 5-8). This will be done in the twinkling of an eye. As for the bad guys “for I will bring evil upon them, EVEN THE YEAR OF THEIR VISITATION, saith the Lord”.

Luke 4 [17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, [18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [19] TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.
Well Jen

You never really answered my question. It was a yes or no question . Does the DOL come after trib? But anyways the above scriptures make it clear that it will not last a 1000 yrs.

Yes, of course the Day of the Lord follows the tribulation as I did answer in post #51. It begins with the catching away of those who believe in Him, followed by the time of judgment and wrath followed by centuries of bringing people to an understanding and love for God, followed by final stand of satan, followed by Great White Throne judgment followed by New Heaven/New Earth/eternity dwelling with God when Jesus gives everything back to God.

The entire Day of the Lord is 1000 years long and it is where Christ puts all enemies under His feet prior to handing it all back to the Father. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death according to Rev 20.

The first few years of that day is where people are forced to make their choice. Christ subdues the evil that is allowed to reign (and in doing so serves Christ's purpose of forcing people to choose) and a time of peace and serving the Lord come about. There is still disobedience (Zech 14). There is still death (Isaiah 65:20). But things will be returning to the way they were originally intended to be. Satan will be bound and kept from deceiving the nations and then released again at the end of the millenium. He will be thrown into the lake of fire along with all those who loved evil as well as death and hades. THEN will come eternity with God on a New Heaven, New Earth and Christ will return everything to the Father.

 

[WailingWall]

Yes, of course the Day of the Lord follows the tribulation as I did answer in post #51.

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? [11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: [12] SO MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. [13] Oh that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Man does not rise until the heavens be no more. After which, we will be changed

2 PETER 3 [10] But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The heavens be no more during The Day of the Lord. You just said the DOL is after the trib.

1 COR. 15 [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.

Theres the “changing” which you find in Job. During the great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD. According to scripture.

 

[johnd]

Well, I tend to agree with just about everything but there are two clues that seem to indicate a catching away prior to or at the beginning of the 7 years of judgment and wrath.

Again, Jen, I see only examples of 1/2 the 70th Week... unless I missed something. "The MIDDLE of the week" etc.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? [11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: [12] SO MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. [13] Oh that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Man does not rise until the heavens be no more. After which, we will be changed

2 PETER 3 [10] But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The heavens be no more during The Day of the Lord. You just said the DOL is after the trib.

1 COR. 15 [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.

Theres the “changing” which you find in Job. During the great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD. According to scripture.

SO much for those who were raised at Christ's resurrection as well as the two witnesses, huh?

Undoubtedly, there is a misunderstanding of what is being said in those verses.

We need to look at all the resurrections foretold in the Bible:
1. Christ
2. Those who rose at Christ's resurrection
3. Those who rise prior to wrath
4. The two witnesses
5. Those who rise at Christ's physical return.
6. All who rise and are judged at the Great White Throne judgment.

How do you know that Job is not speaking of the Great White Throne judgment resurrection?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Again, Jen, I see only examples of 1/2 the 70th Week... unless I missed something. "The MIDDLE of the week" etc.

Well, you'll have to show me what you mean...'cause I'm not quite following.

Rev 3:10 appears to show people being kept from the entire 7 year "hour of trial".

The 7 years appear to begin with a display of God in the earthquake/sun/moon/stars, followed by 3 1/2 years of silence while the beast reigns, then .... the trumpets and bowls for 3 1/2 years? The giving of white robes of the 5th seal appears to be symbolic of the rapture which precedes all of it.