RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

[sdowney717]

It seems you have escaped reality in three directions!
Note carefully: when Jesus comes pretrib FOR His bride, it will be the second (2nd) coming. When He comes 7 plus years later it is going to be His 3rd (third) coming. Both comings are scriptural. Forget preconceptions and just study 1 Thes. and Revelation. Note again, the great crowd - too large to number (ONLY the rapture will have such a crowd) is seen in Revelation 7, just before the 70th week begins.

And yes, billions will be left behind: all sinners will be left behind.
A few that are born again in in unconfessed sin will be left behind.

You find no pretrib rapture taught by Christ about the end times.
There is good reason. The Gentile church of which we are a part did not exist then. And the 70th week, the final 7 years, will be for DANIEL'S people, not the church. HOWEVER: Jesus did speak through Paul about the pretrib rapture.

A better translation would be:
for that Day will not come unless the very significant departing comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

When the church has departed via the rapture, then the one restraining or holding back will be "taken out of the way."

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
And
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

shows that this rapture occurs on the LAST DAY, which allows no time at all for 3.5 years of trouble on earth, which is many days after the resurrection, and many people apparently have not been able to put 2 and 2 together. But if you think honestly about this, you will see.

 

[iamlamad]

That is a work of the flesh unforgiveness is hatred because LOVE keeps no record of wrongs. Paul said people who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom. Such people are not spiritually minded which means death. We need to remember we were forgiven our old sins and Peter talks about how some people have forgotten this. But also those people are in the flesh and not in the Spirit so they are not born of God.

You cannot say that! ONLY GOD can look inside and know if someone is born again. It is EASY to slip into unforgiveness - even if people are born again. It is much more difficult to forgive.
Always remember, a born again person has a CHOICE to walk after the Spirit of after the flesh. Many born again people never really learn now to crucify the flesh.

 

[iamlamad]

John 11 this is God telling us the resurrection occurs on the LAST DAY.
So these saints who had died who Jesus brings with Him, are resurrected together with those who remain, are changed into having immortal glorified bodies, and its on the last day, not 3.5 years before the last day. The we shall all be changed verse which people claim is the rapture is actually the resurrection to come, the Day of the Lord, the Last Day.

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Three times at least in the early chapters of John he writes that Jesus will come "one the last day" to raise them up. I believe Him. The Old Testament saints are not qualified to go up in the rapture; NONE of them were "in Christ." There will be a separate resurrection for the Old Testament saints and it will, indeed, be on the last 24 hour day of the 70th week. They will be raised at the 7th vial that ends the week. Did you notice the great earthquake there?

So these saints who had died who Jesus brings with Him, are resurrected together with those who remain, are changed into having immortal glorified bodies, and its on the last day I could not agree more: but that is for the Old Testament saints NOT THE CHURCH. Jesus brings the spirits of the dead in Christ, as written by Paul, when He comes pretrib FOR the bride of Christ. Always remember, the church is not Old Testament saints and the Old Testament saints are not the church. We are talking about two separate groups. ONLY the church is raised pretrib. The 70th week is for Daniel's people meaning the Jews and Hebrews.

Did you never notice that the church must be taken out before God's wrath? Paul tells us (1 thes. 5) that a moment after the dead in Christ rise, two groups of people get two different results: those in Christ will be caught up, but those left behind will suffer sudden destruction - right then, not later. WE get "salvation" as in raptured, but THEY get sudden destruction. Then Paul said God is not going to set any appointments FOR US with His wrath - hinting very strongly that those left behind DO have an appointment with His wrath. So WHERE is this in Revelation - where God's wrath begins? You will find it at the 6th seal. Just so you know, the 70th week or "trib" does not begin until the 7th seal.

Did you notice that the great crowd - too large to number - was seen in heaven BEFORE the 7th seal that starts the week? This shows PRETRIB.

Did you ever notice that if the rapture was posttrib:
1. No one from the church would make it to heaven for the marriage and supper
2. There would be no sheep for the sheep and goat judgment
3. There would be no saints in natural bodies to repopulate the earth.

Think about it!

Did you ever notice that the gathering in Mathew 4 gathers from HEAVEN? (Paul's rapture gathers from earth.)

 

[iamlamad]

People are and there in no Scripture with Rapture in it and that stupid idea is manmade

The word trinity is not found anywhere either, but God IS a trinity. We are too: Spirit, soul and body.
God and read 1 thes. 4. You will find those alive and in Christ are CAUGHT UP.

 

[iamlamad]

Except that falling away is known as the Great Apostasy.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

And the restrainer is not the church, the word there is 'He' and He is not the Holy Spirit, the restrainer is the Archangel Michael, who in scripture in various places is in battle with the devil, So it is Michael and the holy angels under his command restraining the devil and his angels. Michael has been doing that for the ages, both in OT and NT.

Paul would have used Spirit or God or Holy Spirit if 'he' was that, so its not God directly restraining Satan .

This is myth and shows a lack of understanding of Paul's passage here. We can study this indepth. For example, please tell us all, in verse 3b is the man of sin revealed at that moment in time, or is he not revealed?

 

[charsan]

The word trinity is not found anywhere either, but God IS a trinity. We are too: Spirit, soul and body.
God and read 1 thes. 4. You will find those alive and in Christ are CAUGHT UP.

Nope it is an invention of men. I was lost in that nonsense and thanks be to God for rescuing me from that almost satanic doctrine of rapture

 

[BABerean2]

The Old Testament saints are not qualified to go up in the rapture; NONE of them were "in Christ." There will be a separate resurrection for the Old Testament saints and it will, indeed, be on the last 24 hour day of the 70th week.

Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?


Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luk 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luk 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,


Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,



Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

godhasmynumber said: ↑
Firstly i am a believer in the rapture just so that you all know, but believing in such an event and having an expectation of GOING UP and leaving this rotten sin infested world and my FLESH behind is a deep craving within me, and yet my heart still aches for all those that will be LEFT BEHIND that will suffer at the hands of THOSE IN THE WORLD and THE ANTICHRIST and HIS FALSE PROPHET

How about neither a rapture or left behind stuff. That stuff is faker than a 2 dollar bill

iamlamad said: ↑
It is scripture, my friend: scripture is not flaky!
And a 2 dollar bill IS REAL!

charsan said: ↑
People are and there in no Scripture with Rapture in it and that stupid idea is manmade

iamlamad said: ↑
The word trinity is not found anywhere either, but God IS a trinity. We are too: Spirit, soul and body.
God and read 1 thes. 4. You will find those alive and in Christ are CAUGHT UP.

Nope it is an invention of men. I was lost in that nonsense and thanks be to God for rescuing me from that almost satanic doctrine of rapture

Include the "spider web" doctrine of Dispensationalism........
And that is why the spirit led true doctrines of Preterism/Amill is once again flourishing........

Dispensationalism – Grace Online Library

.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking.
So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place.

Evaluating Premillennialism: Part II – Christ’s Return and the Rapture by Cornelis P. Venema – Grace Online Library

No evaluation of Dispensational Premillennialism may ignore its teaching of a two-phased return of Christ, the first phase of which is commonly known as the Rapture.
This feature is its most widely known aspect. Popularized by such best-selling books as Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth, the film The Return, and bumper stickers warning others that in the event of the rapture the vehicle will be without driver and possibly passengers — Dispensationalism has enjoyed a large following among conservative Christians, especially in North America.

The view that has predominated in Dispensationalism is known as pre-tribulational rapturism. As noted previously, the older classical version of Dispensationalism held that the first phase of Christ’s return, his ‘coming’ or ‘parousia’, would precede a seven-year period of tribulation, and that the second phase of Christ’s return, his ‘revelation’ or ‘appearing’, would introduce the millennium or one-thousand-year reign of Christ on the earth. The first phase, Christ’s coming, is the rapture1 of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, an event that represents Christ’s coming ‘for’ his saints in contrast to his subsequent return (the second phase) or coming ‘with’ the saints. Though this view has been somewhat modified in more recent Dispensationalism, it remains far and away the most popular view among dispensationalists to this day. The views known as mid-tribulationism and post-tribulationism, as the terminology suggests, differ as to the timing of the rapture, but have relatively few defenders.2......................

First, when in verse 16 we read that the dead in Christ will rise first, this refers to the fact that those saints who have fallen asleep in Jesus will be raised before the living saints are caught up with them and the Lord at his coming. They will, in other words, enjoy a privilege — being raised first — not granted to those who are alive at Christ’s coming. The dispensationalist teaching that this is the first resurrection, the resurrection of believing saints at the time of the rapture, in distinction from the second resurrection, the resurrection of the unbelieving at the close of the millennium more than one thousand years later, is not found in the text, nor is it the point of the apostle’s use of the term ‘first’.

Second, this passage speaks of all believers being caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. Dispensationalists maintain that this refers to a meeting in the air which leads to a return of Christ and all the saints with him to heaven whence he came. Returning to heaven, the Lord Jesus and his saints will remain there for seven years.
But nothing of this is stated in the text. The text actually speaks of a being caught up together in the air ‘unto a meeting’ between the Lord and the resurrected saints and the remaining saints who were alive at his coming.’10
The word used in this text for ‘meeting’ typically means a meeting between a visiting dignitary and representatives of the city or village being visited. Such a meeting would occur outside of the city or village, and the visitor and welcoming party would return to the city.11 This word is used twice elsewhere in the New Testament (Acts 28:15, Matt. 25:6), in both cases referring to a meeting which takes place before the parties return to the place being visited.
The meaning and use of this term suggests that in the case of the rapture, the saints who meet the Lord in the air will thereupon return with him, not to heaven, but to the earth to which he comes at his parousia.

Third, the result of this rapture, or being caught up with the Lord in the air, is said to be the blessedness of being always with the Lord. This language best fits the circumstance of the final state in which believers, now resurrected and glorified, will dwell forever in the most intimate and unbroken fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Being always with the Lord is not to be limited to a period of seven years in heaven or even one thousand years upon the earth. Rather, the simplest reading of this passage is to take it to be a description of the final state.

And fourth, several features of the description of this rapture do not fit well with the dispensationalist position. The coming of the Lord, as described in these verses, is a visible, public event, one which is signaled by the descent of Christ from heaven ‘with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God’.
However, in Dispensationalism, the first return of Christ is said to be a secret rapture, in which believers will be suddenly snatched away without notice. This teaching is based partly upon an appeal to Matthew 24:40—41 which is seen to be a parallel description of the rapture, though we have already noted that that passage does not teach a pre-tribulational rapture.
But the description in 1 Thessalonians 4:16—18 corresponds to the descriptions of Christ’s revelation from heaven at the end of the age in other passages (cf. 1 Cor. 15:23—24, 2 Thess. 2:8). These passages speak of Christ’s return as a public event that will bring the present period of history to a close.

Thus, the teaching of a pre-tribulational rapture as understood within the framework of Dispensationalism is not founded upon the teaching of any biblical passage. Nor is it a teaching that can withstand careful scrutiny, particularly when measured against the general teaching of the Scriptures regarding the return of Christ at the end of the age.
The Bible teaches neither that believers will be exempted from present or future tribulation at the end of the present age, nor that the rapture will be the event described by Dispensationalism. The one passage that speaks of the event commonly known as the rapture scarcely supports the view that enjoys such popularity among dispensationalists
===========================
Rapture Index - Latest activity indicators of when the Rapture might occur.

Rapture Ready Index
Rapture Index: 184
Change from last update:-1
Updated: Aug 19, 2019
Records
All-Time High: 189 (October 10, 2016)
All-Time Low: 58 (December 12, 1993)

You could say the Rapture index is a Dow Jones Industrial Average of end time activity, but I think it would be better if you viewed it as prophetic speedometer. The higher the number, the faster we're moving towards the occurrence of pre-tribulation rapture.

100 and Below: Slow prophetic activity
100 to 130: Moderate prophetic activity
130 to 160: Heavy prophetic activity
Above 160: Fasten your seat belts

 

[iamlamad]

Nope it is an invention of men. I was lost in that nonsense and thanks be to God for rescuing me from that almost satanic doctrine of rapture

So, what you are really saying is, you don't believe Paul. The other other thing I could guess is that you don't read - just imagine.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 [Full Chapter]
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[charsan]

So, what you are really saying is, you don't believe Paul. The other other thing I could guess is that you don't read - just imagine.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 [Full Chapter]
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I believe St. Paul, I don't believe the ludicrous doctrines of men called the Rapture that is not Biblical in any way nor of God

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I believe St. Paul, I don't believe the ludicrous doctrines of men called the Rapture that is not Biblical in any way nor of God

Ok........

 

[iamlamad]

I believe St. Paul, I don't believe the ludicrous doctrines of men called the Rapture that is not Biblical in any way nor of God

Perhaps you just don't know that the rapture is only a word describing being "caught up" exactly as written in 1 Thes. 4:17. Maybe you should read it before making such silly statements.

 

[charsan]

Perhaps you just don't know that the rapture is only a word describing being "caught up" exactly as written in 1 Thes. 4:17. Maybe you
should read it before making such silly statements.

I know about that faulty interpretation an how it has duped people into false beliefs that are not of God nor Christianity. You will never be raptured or no one left behind stop believing lies from the devil.

 

[iamlamad]

I know about that faulty interpretation an how it has duped people into false beliefs that are not of God nor Christianity. You will never be raptured or no one left behind stop believing lies from the devil.

KJ21
then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
ASV
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
AMP
Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord!
AMPC
Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!
BRG
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
CSB
Then we who are still alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
CEB
Then, we who are living and still around will be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet with the Lord in the air. That way we will always be with the Lord.
CJB
then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
CEV
Next, all of us who are still alive will be taken up into the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the sky. From that time on we will all be with the Lord forever.
DARBY
then *we*, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in [the] clouds, to meet the Lord in [the] air; and thus we shall be always with [the] Lord.
DLNT
Then we— the ones living, the ones remaining— will be snatched-up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall always be with the Lord.
ERV
After that we who are still alive at that time will be gathered up with those who have died. We will be taken up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever.
EHV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
ESV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
ESVUK
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
EXB
After that, we who are ·still alive [or alive and are left] will be ·gathered [caught; taken] up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And [L so; in this way] we will be with the Lord forever.
GNV
Then shall we which live and remain, be caught up with them also in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If you imagine all these are faulty translations, I would suggest you look more closely at your own reading ability. If you don't want to go, just TELL GOD: I am sure he will leave you behind.

 

[mmksparbud]

KJ21
then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
ASV
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
AMP
Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord!
AMPC
Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!
BRG
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
CSB
Then we who are still alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
CEB
Then, we who are living and still around will be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet with the Lord in the air. That way we will always be with the Lord.
CJB
then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
CEV
Next, all of us who are still alive will be taken up into the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the sky. From that time on we will all be with the Lord forever.
DARBY
then *we*, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in [the] clouds, to meet the Lord in [the] air; and thus we shall be always with [the] Lord.
DLNT
Then we— the ones living, the ones remaining— will be snatched-up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall always be with the Lord.
ERV
After that we who are still alive at that time will be gathered up with those who have died. We will be taken up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever.
EHV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
ESV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
ESVUK
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
EXB
After that, we who are ·still alive [or alive and are left] will be ·gathered [caught; taken] up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And [L so; in this way] we will be with the Lord forever.
GNV
Then shall we which live and remain, be caught up with them also in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If you imagine all these are faulty translations, I would suggest you look more closely at your own reading ability. If you don't want to go, just TELL GOD: I am sure he will leave you behind.

Yes---we will be caught up--raptured---but no one will be left behind!! Jesus comes back for the saved only---the living wicked are destroyed at His coming, the rest of the dead remain dead till the 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

When Jesus comes for the saved, He takes us with Him for the 1000 years in heaven. If all the saved are in heaven with Him, and all the wicked remain dead, and the earth is destroyed---who is left behind?-----Just Satan and his angels. This is the bottomless pit that he is chained to--unable to go anywhere else. He has an empty, void planet for 1000 years.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

 

[BABerean2]

Yes---we will be caught up--raptured---but no one will be left behind!! Jesus comes back for the saved only---the living wicked are destroyed at His coming, the rest of the dead remain dead till the 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

When Jesus comes for the saved, He takes us with Him for the 1000 years in heaven. If all the saved are in heaven with Him, and all the wicked remain dead, and the earth is destroyed---who is left behind?-----Just Satan and his angels. This is the bottomless pit that he is chained to--unable to go anywhere else. He has an empty, void planet for 1000 years.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God. The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

Because we have "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. You cannot have a judgment of the dead without a resurrection of the dead, based on John 5:27-30.
We have Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19.

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return, in 2 Timothy 4:1.

.

 

[mmksparbud]

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God. The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

Because we have "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. You cannot have a judgment of the dead without a resurrection of the dead, based on John 5:27-30.
We have Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19.

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return, in 2 Timothy 4:1.

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The wicked dead are resurrected after the 1000 years. That is the 2nd resurrection.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Andrewn]

There wont be anyone left behind, all Christians are saved. Christ returning to the earth sends out His angels and gathers up His elect, then He rules and reigns with them at His second coming. There is no third coming, when Christ returns He returns, does not wait in the clouds for 7 years watching. See if you can find any scriptural support for a partial second coming!

You're a party pooper. Do you have to tell the truth? Preachers make money telling people this stuff.

 

[BABerean2]

The wicked dead are resurrected after the 1000 years. That is the 2nd resurrection.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Do you have to ignore the scripture I gave you to make your viewpoint work?

If you do, your viewpoint cannot be correct.

I will say it again. The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

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[mmksparbud]

Do you have to ignore the scripture I gave you to make your viewpoint work?

If you do, your viewpoint cannot be correct.

I will say it again. The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

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I know it isn't.
The wicked dead are resurrected after the 1000 years. That is the 2nd resurrection.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
What is not clear about that?

Go back to post #7.