RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

[LittleLambofJesus]

If you want to believe that God has a whole nosatload of "souls" squashed under His alter---be my guest, I do not.

The 1st resurrection is at the 2nd coming of Christ for the saved dead, and living saved. The 2nd resurrection is for the wicked dead, after the 1000 years. You want to believe otherwise, it's up to you.

The 1st resurrection occurs at the Harvest [which happened in the 1st century before the wrath of 70ad].....the 1st fruit 144,000 sealed Christian Hebrew Isralites ...........

What does the phrase "consummation of the Age" mean?
I notice I did not get any responses on this thread I created on it......

Matt 24:3 "full end/consummation of the age"

Matthew 13:
30 ‘Let both grow together until the Harvest, and at the time of Harvest I will say to the Reapers, 'First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into My barn.”
39 And the enemy who sowed them is the Devil, and the Harvest is the Consummation<4930> of the Age, and the reapers are Messengers. [Revelation 14:15]

Matthew 24:3
Yet Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us, when? shall these be, and what? the sign<4592>of the Thy parousia and consummation<4931> of the Age.
Luke 21:
27 ‘And then they shall see the Son of Man, coming in a cloud, with power and much glory;

Revelation 14:
14 And I looked and behold! a white cloud
and upon the cloud like-as a Son of Man sitting, having a golden Crown upon His head and in His hand, a sharp sickle
15 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary, crying in a great voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Thy sickle! and reap<2325>!
that came the hour to reap, that is dried/ripe the Harvest of the land.”
16 So He sitting upon the cloud casts His sickle on the land, and the land is reaped.

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

17 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary of the one in the heaven, and He also had a sharp sickle.
18 Then another Messenger, the One who has authority over the fire, came out of the Altar; and He sounds to a great voice to Him having the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in thy sharp sickle! and pick! the clusters from the Grapevine of the land, that are mellow it's grapes.”

19 And the Messenger casts His sickle to the land and picks the Grapevine of the land and casts into the great tough of the fury of the great God.
20 And the trough was trodden outside the City, and blood came out of the trough, up to the horses’ bit, from a thousand six hundred stadia.

 

[mmksparbud]

The 1st resurrection occurs at the Harvest [which happened in the 1st century before the wrath of 70ad].....the 1st fruit 144,000 sealed Christian Hebrew Isralites ...........

What does the phrase "consummation of the Age" mean?
I notice I did not get any responses on this thread I created on it......

Matt 24:3 "full end/consummation of the age"

Matthew 13:
30 ‘Let both grow together until the Harvest, and at the time of Harvest I will say to the Reapers, 'First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into My barn.”
39 And the enemy who sowed them is the Devil, and the Harvest is the Consummation<4930> of the Age, and the reapers are Messengers. [Revelation 14:15]

Matthew 24:3
Yet Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us, when? shall these be, and what? the sign<4592>of the Thy parousia and consummation<4931> of the Age.
Luke 21:
27 ‘And then they shall see the Son of Man, coming in a cloud, with power and much glory;

Revelation 14:
14 And I looked and behold! a white cloud
and upon the cloud like-as a Son of Man sitting, having a golden Crown upon His head and in His hand, a sharp sickle
15 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary, crying in a great voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Thy sickle! and reap<2325>!
that came the hour to reap, that is dried/ripe the Harvest of the land.”
16 So He sitting upon the cloud casts His sickle on the land, and the land is reaped.

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

17 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary of the one in the heaven, and He also had a sharp sickle.
18 Then another Messenger, the One who has authority over the fire, came out of the Altar; and He sounds to a great voice to Him having the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in thy sharp sickle! and pick! the clusters from the Grapevine of the land, that are mellow it's grapes.”

19 And the Messenger casts His sickle to the land and picks the Grapevine of the land and casts into the great tough of the fury of the great God.
20 And the trough was trodden outside the City, and blood came out of the trough, up to the horses’ bit, from a thousand six hundred stadia.

Then what are we all doing still here?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Then what are we all doing still here?

Same thing Christians have been doing since the "Harvest" of 1st century Israel/70ad Jerusalem 2000yrs ago, praising and worshiping God till the final judgement....

Another thread with no responses.........

Matt 24:6 "...but not as yet the END" End of what?

All 3 verses of these verses of the 70AD Olivet Discourse shows "but not yet the end". End of what?

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being? and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?

Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be? and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be consummated<4931>.

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

 

[mmksparbud]

Same thing Christians have been doing since the "Harvest" of 1st century Israel/70ad Jerusalem 2000yrs ago, praising and worshiping God till the final judgement....

Another thread with no responses.........

Matt 24:6 "...but not as yet the END" End of what?

This is what happens at the first resurrection:
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

So far, that hasn't happened yet.

Ed of what?---there is still the 1000 years and the 2nd death after that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is what happens at the first resurrection:
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
So far, that hasn't happened yet.
Ed of what?---there is still the 1000 years and the 2nd death after that.

Sure it did. Do you believe that is showing the whole world?
In my view, that was the firery furnace of Jerusalem and it's Temple in 70ad.........

I also view it as Gehenna and Lake of Fire.....all OC Hebrew symbology the Jews would know about.......

Notice it is showing the whole House of Israel, which included both the Southern house of Judah/Jews and the divorced Northern House of Israel.....

Please view my 70ad Furnace of Jerusalem Revelation 18 thread:

EZEKIEL 22 "GATHER HOUSE OF ISRAEL INTO JERUSALEM TO MELT IN FURNACE/GEHENNA/LAKE OF FIRE"

Isa 31:9
He shall cross over to his stronghold for fear, And his princes shall be afraid of the banner,” Says the LORD,
Whose fire is in Zion And whose furnace is in Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 22:
1 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, 2 ‘And thou, son of adam! dost thou judge? dost thou judge the City of blood? then thou hast caused it to know all its abominations,
17 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, ‘Son of adam!18 The House of Israel hath been to Me for dross, All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace — dross hath silver been,
19 Therefore, thus said Adonay Yahweh: Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, behold!
I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem,
20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace — to blow on it fire, to melt it, So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury, And I have let rest, and have melted you.
21 And I have heaped you up, And blown on you in the fire of My wrath<5678>, And ye have been melted<5413> in its midst.
22 As the melting of silver in the midst of a furnace, So are ye melted in its midst, And ye have known that I, Yahweh, I have poured out My fury<2534> upon you.’
=============================
What better day to gather them into Jerusalem but the feast of the Passover!!

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;
The city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
========================
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The elements of the 1st century Temple and Jerusalem burning up:


Matthew 23:33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
9 And shall be lamenting<2799> over Her and shall be grieving/smiting selves<2875> over Her the kings of the earth,
those with Her committing whoredom and indulging
whenever they may be beholding<991> the smoke of Her burning<4451>.

10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting<929> of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.

11 And the Merchants<1713> of the earth are lamenting<2799> and mourning<3996> over Her,
that their cargo<1117> no one is buying anymore.
12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl
and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16]
and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble 13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe. The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints. Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.
The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.
================================
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

 

[mmksparbud]

There was destruction in 70 AD---it was not of the whole world.

Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

This is the bottomless pit to which Satan is bound for those 1000 years. This world will have its Sabbath.
It is 6 days of labor, and the Sabbath. It was 6 years for the land to produce, and then a year of rest, Sabbath. It is 6000 years, then a 1000 year Sabbath.

Exo 23:10 And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof:
Exo 23:11 But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard.
Exo 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

mmksparbud said: ↑
This is what happens at the first resurrection:
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
So far, that hasn't happened yet.

Ed of what?---there is still the 1000 years and the 2nd death after that.

There was destruction in 70 AD---it was not of the whole world.

.

That destruction is the destruction showing in Revelation

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

 

[mmksparbud]

Ed of what?---there is still the 1000 years and the 2nd death after that.
That destruction is the destruction showing in Revelation

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

The destruction is of the whole world at His 2nd coming---Not one tiny little particle of sand on the map of the world. The resurrection is of all the saved---not just those in a tiny speck of land slightly smaller than New Jersey.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The destruction is of the whole world at His 2nd coming---Not one tiny little particle of sand on the map of the world. The resurrection is of all the saved---not just those in a tiny speck of land slightly smaller than New Jersey.

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?

James 5:8
be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758);

Do you think Peter is talking about the end of the world to the 1st century Jewish Christians before 70ad?

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>
be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,


Revelation 1:1
An-un-veiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.

 

[mmksparbud]

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

See post 123
CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE

Makes a "world" of difference....

Matt 24:6 "...but not as yet the END" End of what?

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being? and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?

Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be? and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be consummated<4931>.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I desire to leave A LEGACY to THOSE left behind,

Thank God for those who left a Legacy behind for us. Even our Bible is a Legacy that people have given us and other future generations. Look at things like the Pyramids that people have left that has lasted for up to 2,000 years.

Back at the end of WW2 they were building homes that were designed to last for at least 100 years. Now a days you see them tearing down McDonalds that are not much more then 10 years old. They seem to be happy if they get 20 or 30 years out of a building.

I never thought of it, but how neat would it be if we could create something that would last for the next 1000 years. All the way through the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

 

[charsan]

KJ21
then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
ASV
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
AMP
Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord!
AMPC
Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!
BRG
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
CSB
Then we who are still alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
CEB
Then, we who are living and still around will be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet with the Lord in the air. That way we will always be with the Lord.
CJB
then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
CEV
Next, all of us who are still alive will be taken up into the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the sky. From that time on we will all be with the Lord forever.
DARBY
then *we*, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in [the] clouds, to meet the Lord in [the] air; and thus we shall be always with [the] Lord.
DLNT
Then we— the ones living, the ones remaining— will be snatched-up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall always be with the Lord.
ERV
After that we who are still alive at that time will be gathered up with those who have died. We will be taken up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever.
EHV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
ESV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
ESVUK
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
EXB
After that, we who are ·still alive [or alive and are left] will be ·gathered [caught; taken] up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And [L so; in this way] we will be with the Lord forever.
GNV
Then shall we which live and remain, be caught up with them also in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If you imagine all these are faulty translations, I would suggest you look more closely at your own reading ability. If you don't want to go, just TELL GOD: I am sure he will leave you behind.

Don't believe your spin and you don't need to respond because I will not change my mind, I was lost in that silliness and know this left behind stuff is not of God. Goodday!

 

[iamlamad]

Yes---we will be caught up--raptured---but no one will be left behind!! Jesus comes back for the saved only---the living wicked are destroyed at His coming, the rest of the dead remain dead till the 1000 years.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

When Jesus comes for the saved, He takes us with Him for the 1000 years in heaven. If all the saved are in heaven with Him, and all the wicked remain dead, and the earth is destroyed---who is left behind?-----Just Satan and his angels. This is the bottomless pit that he is chained to--unable to go anywhere else. He has an empty, void planet for 1000 years.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

I disagree: billions of unsaved people will be left behind. This will include millions who thought they were "Christian."

the living wicked are destroyed at His coming You are trying to merge two comings into one: it does not work. Billions will be left behind when He comes for His church; that is NOT His coming as seen in Rev. 19 to Armageddon.

When Jesus comes for the saved, He takes us with Him for the 1000 years in heaven. This is just more myth! After He comes for the saved, there will be 7 years of tribulation: the 70th week of Daniel. The church then RETURNS to earth with Him for His Armageddon coming, and we remain on earth for the 1000 years.

 

[iamlamad]

Thank God for those who left a Legacy behind for us. Even our Bible is a Legacy that people have given us and other future generations. Look at things like the Pyramids that people have left that has lasted for up to 2,000 years.

Back at the end of WW2 they were building homes that were designed to last for at least 100 years. Now a days you see them tearing down McDonalds that are not much more then 10 years old. They seem to be happy if they get 20 or 30 years out of a building.

I never thought of it, but how neat would it be if we could create something that would last for the next 1000 years. All the way through the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

I was in a small church in Germany that was built in the 1600's! It was older than our nation!

 

[iamlamad]

Don't believe your spin and you don't need to respond because I will not change my mind, I was lost in that silliness and know this left behind stuff is not of God. Goodday!

So let's get this clear for all to see: you disagree with the written word in at least 20 different translations. Got it.

 

[mmksparbud]

I disagree: billions of unsaved people will be left behind. This will include millions who thought they were "Christian."

the living wicked are destroyed at His coming You are trying to merge two comings into one: it does not work. Billions will be left behind when He comes for His church; that is NOT His coming as seen in Rev. 19 to Armageddon.

When Jesus comes for the saved, He takes us with Him for the 1000 years in heaven. This is just more myth! After He comes for the saved, there will be 7 years of tribulation: the 70th week of Daniel. The church then RETURNS to earth with Him for His Armageddon coming, and we remain on earth for the 1000 years.

Please state the verses for your believes. I stated mine. Jesus comes how many times according to your theory? There is a 2nd coming, and that is for the saved--I gave the verses, why deny them? After that is the 1000 years with Him in heaven and it clearly states the rest of the dead lived not again until after the 1000 years. So where does it say there is a 7 year tribulation during the 1000 years? All the saved are with Him in heaven , all the wicked are dead--the earth is destroyed and empty. After the 1000 years the wicked are resurrected---that is the 2nd resurrection. They have their punishment when they try to take the descending city and are destroyed. I gave all the verses for that and you show none.

 

[iamlamad]

Please state the verses for your believes. I stated mine. Jesus comes how many times according to your theory? There is a 2nd coming, and that is for the saved--I gave the verses, why deny them? After that is the 1000 years with Him in heaven and it clearly states the rest of the dead lived not again until after the 1000 years. So where does it say there is a 7 year tribulation during the 1000 years? All the saved are with Him in heaven , all the wicked are dead--the earth is destroyed and empty. After the 1000 years the wicked are resurrected---that is the 2nd resurrection. They have their punishment when they try to take the descending city and are destroyed. I gave all the verses for that and you show none.

Not according to any "theory" but according to the written word of God. 1 thes. 5, along with the great crowd too large to number in Rev. 7. Along with that, the knowledge that the 70th week (the 'trib) is marked by 7's: it begins with the 7th seal, and ends with the 7th trumpet. Also the knowledge that the raptured church will be the biggest by far crowd of all crowds in Revelation. Add to that the fact that a posttrib rapture is made impossible by other verses.
He came once, right? So his NEXT coming will be His second, right? If He comes FOR His saints the next coming, and they returns WITH His saints 7 years later, I could that coming (Armageddon) as His THIRD (3rd) coming.
I gave the verses, why deny them? Let me go back and look...

NONE of your verses aligns with 1 Thes. 4:17 about the rapture. I did not deny them, I ignored them. What do you do with the verses about us coming WITH HIM t the earth? Say for example the armies of heaven coming with Him, and He is coming with 10,000s of His saints? Not to mention Rev. 20 where John saw thrones and people ON those thrones. WE are there...or will be...and it is on earth.
So where does it say there is a 7 year tribulation during the 1000 years? What do you think Rev. chapters 8 through 16 are about? That is the 70th week. (The truth is, the change in Millenniums will be at the midpoint of the Week, so half of the "trib" will be in this 1000 years and the second half will be in the new Millennium. )

 

[mmksparbud]

Not according to any "theory" but according to the written word of God. 1 thes. 5, along with the great crowd too large to number in Rev. 7. Along with that, the knowledge that the 70th week (the 'trib) is marked by 7's: it begins with the 7th seal, and ends with the 7th trumpet. Also the knowledge that the raptured church will be the biggest by far crowd of all crowds in Revelation. Add to that the fact that a posttrib rapture is made impossible by other verses.
He came once, right? So his NEXT coming will be His second, right? If He comes FOR His saints the next coming, and they returns WITH His saints 7 years later, I could that coming (Armageddon) as His THIRD (3rd) coming.
I gave the verses, why deny them? Let me go back and look...

NONE of your verses aligns with 1 Thes. 4:17 about the rapture. I did not deny them, I ignored them. What do you do with the verses about us coming WITH HIM t the earth? Say for example the armies of heaven coming with Him, and He is coming with 10,000s of His saints? Not to mention Rev. 20 where John saw thrones and people ON those thrones. WE are there...or will be...and it is on earth.
So where does it say there is a 7 year tribulation during the 1000 years? What do you think Rev. chapters 8 through 16 are about? That is the 70th week. (The truth is, the change in Millenniums will be at the midpoint of the Week, so half of the "trib" will be in this 1000 years and the second half will be in the new Millennium. )

You only take a portion of the passage and build a whole concept out of it:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This is talking about the saved---not the lost. Where does it say that no one will know when this happens, that it is some sort of secret?
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What is so secret about that? It doesn't say the Lord is going to whisper, He's going to shout, and blow a trump---nothing quiet about this. When He comes, He brings every angel with Him---all the dead who ever died in Christ will be resurrected. You think no one will notice??
Mat_25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 24:30"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

What's so secret about this? He comes with EVERY angel--Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Nobody's home!!

You have not named the verse that says Jesus comes 7 years after His second coming. He takes the saved with Him at that coming---the living wicked are destroyed---it says the rest of the dead lived not again until after the 1000 years. Now---where does it say, 7 years after the 1000 years starts, He comes again? For who? He already has the saved---the wicked are dead until the 1000 years---who does He come for after 7 years?

 

[charsan]

So let's get this clear for all to see: you disagree with the written word in at least 20 different translations. Got it.

No. I disagree with your lame ideas