Rapture Before Wrath

BABerean2 · Sep 24, 2014

Danoh said:
BAB, you said in your post above "If you are correct and I am wrong, many of us on this forum will be pleasantly surprised that we will be taken out in a pretrib rapture. If that happens, you are welcome to tell me on the way up. "I told you so."

Not so quick, there, BAB, if I, as you put it, am correct, you'll be saved, but lose the reward of the inheritence He wanted you to have. Not the inheritence, but its reward.

Thus, its not about me being right. Its bad enough you hurt yourself through these notions about others, when He would that your strength be made perfect in weakness, but worse than that is the wood, hay, and stubble of your doctrine and its resulting loss on that day.

You're a member of the neither Jew nor Gentile Body of Christ and His intended glory through, not some physical son of Abraham also spiritual, over the Gentile nations as to His intended glory in that nation one day.

Brother Danoh,

Some on this forum have stated those who do not believe in the pretrib version of the rapture will be left behind and have to lose our heads to gain our salvation. They are part of the "Rapture Cult". They are stating some aspects of salvation or rewards are dependent upon belief in the pretrib doctrine.

You are getting very close to that, if you are not already there.

Many talk about our rewards and crowns. I will give my humble opinion. If there is anyone who is wearing a crown when the time comes, it will be taken off and handed to the One who earned it on the cross.

I only want one reward. I want to be in the presence of the One who bought me with His blood.

I am the one who drove the nails into His body. I do not deserve anything but death.

This morning I went to a local High School and later my former Middle School and participated in the national "See You at the Pole" day of prayer. It was my privilege to stand in a circle and hold the hands of young people and adults who were willing to pray on a public school campus. When it was my turn I simply spoke the truth about the Son of God and what He has done for me. I do not expect any reward in return. It is not about anything I have done or anything I could ever do.

It is about what He has done.

.

Riberra · Sep 25, 2014

MyLordMySavior said:
Wrote in post #412
You just terrified me.

Sorry about that, not my intention the text is intended to expose Satan ruses that will be used by the Antichrist ...

MyLordMySavior said:
I've read the Bible. I LOVE God. I try my best, even though I suck at it and fail at being a Christian, I still keep trying over and over again.

I've read the Revelations multiple times, and it's so incredibly confusing, I don't know what to believe. I know of things that will happen, I just don't understand the when and who parts.

Don't let anyone fools you when they are saying that there is still 2 more coming of Jesus yet to come.One coming of Jesus who will be visible only to those believing in the pre-trib rapture (waiting in faith to be raptured) and another coming of Jesus to gather those left behind ....
The Bible is clear that there is only ONE more coming of Jesus yet to come (Hebrews 9:28) and that everyone on Earth will see it after the Tribulation (Mathew 24:29-30

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was offered as a sacrifice one time to take away the sins of many people. And he will come a second time, but not to offer himself for sin. He will come the second time to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Mathew 24:29-30 clearly say when Jesus' second coming will happen...
Matthew 24:29-30
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

MyLordMySavior said:
I hope that God will be merciful and take us away before He passes his Judgement on to the world, but so many Christians argue with each other over this, it scares me. My biggest fear is believing something not ttrue that is why I believe strictly what the Bible says...because it's truly the only words I can trust with my heart & soul.

Now, I hope for a pre-trib rapture more than the post-trib. Both uses scripture to support their claim, but obviously someone is misconstruing it, but I don't know who!

Everyone leading you to believe that there is more than one more coming of Jesus yet to come is preaching another gospel.
-So when you heard someone saying that Jesus will come pre-tribulation to rapture the Church ... but that In the rapture, "only" those waiting in faith (watchful) will see Christ you will known that is contrary what the Bible say in Matthew 24:29-30 ...and Hebrews 9:28

MyLordMySavior said:
It's so incredibly confusing, and I'm not Bible Scholar! I'll never know everything, but gosh do I try to keep learning.

And the fact that you say, that those who believe pre-trib will go to worship Satan!!!! WHAT!!!!!! No!!!! I don't believe this because if they will be deceived, who knows what will happen to me!!!

This cannot happen to you if you are well informed of Satan's ruses.Remember nowhere in the Bible it is said that Jesus will come pre-tribulation.see Matthew 24:29-30 for the time frame about Jesus second coming after the tribulation.Jesus will not come invisibly before the tribulation to rapture the Church
Like the pre-trib rapture preachers want yo to believe:

-In the rapture, "only" those waiting in faith (watchful) will see Christ." this is a lie and they are preaching another gospel...-

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

MyLordMySavior said:
Why would God allow this to happen to the people He loves! Where's the mercy?

The scriptures say that we will be protected from God's wrath during the tribulation like Moses and his people were not affected by the plagues (God's wrath) who was directed against the Egyptian during exodus.

MyLordMySavior said:
God saved Noah and His family from the Flood, why wouldn't He save us from the awful judgement the world deserves.

The Bible say that those who will endure till the End will be saved.
Matthew 24:13
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24 KJV

MyLordMySavior said:
I'm not smart enough to understand revelations. I honestly don't think I can believe anyone unless God Himself told me in simple stupid terms. But with how sucky and awful the world is today, it makes me feel like the End is near. I'm running out of time to understand if it really is that easy to deceive the world :'(.

Ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit as a guide during your Bible reading.Use the KJV Bible version not the New King James Version or the other new bible versions like NIV or NASB they have been proved to be corrupted version.
See...
Adulterations in the Newer Bible Versions (NIV, NASB...); Proof that the King James Bible (KJV) is the True Word of God

TPeterY · Sep 25, 2014

Riberra said:
Sorry about that, not my intention the text is intended to expose Satan ruses that will be used by the Antichrist ...

Don't let anyone fools you when they are saying that there is still 2 more coming of Jesus yet to come.One coming of Jesus who will be visible only to those believing in the pre-trib rapture (waiting in faith to be raptured) and another coming of Jesus to gather those left behind ....
The Bible is clear that there is only ONE more coming of Jesus yet to come (Hebrews 9:28) and that everyone on Earth will see it after the Tribulation (Mathew 24:29-30

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was offered as a sacrifice one time to take away the sins of many people. And he will come a second time, but not to offer himself for sin. He will come the second time to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Mathew 24:29-30 clearly say when Jesus' second coming will happen...
Matthew 24:29-30
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Everyone leading you to believe that there is more than one more coming of Jesus yet to come is preaching another gospel.
-So when you heard someone saying that Jesus will come pre-tribulation to rapture the Church ... but that In the rapture, "only" those waiting in faith (watchful) will see Christ you will known that is contrary what the Bible say in Matthew 24:29-30 ...and Hebrews 9:28

This cannot happen to you if you are well informed of Satan's ruses.Remember nowhere in the Bible it is said that Jesus will come pre-tribulation.see Matthew 24:29-30 for the time frame about Jesus second coming after the tribulation.Jesus will not come invisibly before the tribulation to rapture the Church
Like the pre-trib rapture preachers want yo to believe:

-In the rapture, "only" those waiting in faith (watchful) will see Christ." this is a lie and they are preaching another gospel...-

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The scriptures say that we will be protected from God's wrath during the tribulation like Moses and his people were not affected by the plagues (God's wrath) who was directed against the Egyptian during exodus.

The Bible say that those who will endure till the End will be saved.
Matthew 24:13
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24 KJV

Ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit as a guide during your Bible reading.Use the KJV Bible version not the New King James Version or the other new bible versions like NIV or NASB they have been proved to be corrupted version.
See...
Adulterations in the Newer Bible Versions (NIV, NASB...); Proof that the King James Bible (KJV) is the True Word of God

Riberra,

Don't preach what you don't know, especially to someone young just learning about prophecy.

Just because you don't understand prophecy as much, it doesn't mean you know everything. If you dwindle His flock, I guarantee you'll suffer His wrath.

.

BABerean2 · Sep 25, 2014

TPeterY said:
Riberra,

Don't preach what you don't know, especially to someone young just learning about prophecy.

Just because you don't understand prophecy as much, it doesn't mean you know everything. If you dwindle His flock, I guarantee you'll suffer His wrath.

.

Riberra spoke the truth in love to a Brother who was seeking the truth and you have condemned him. It should be obvious to the one seeking the truth who is actually speaking it.

One says "Don't worry. We are out of here", but the other says "Brother, be prepared to face the enemy".

The pretrib version cannot pass the "Flesh Test". If your Flesh likes it, it is a lie.

The enemy has tortured and killed our Brothers and Sisters since Stephen was stoned to death. It is happening now all over the world, especially in the Middle East, where some are beheaded on camera.

When the 3 1/2 years of Great Tribulation begins the persecution will intensify. Many will have to make the choice to either be killed or boldly proclaim the Gospel. Are you preparing them spiritually, to be ready for this?

The pretrib doctrine was brought to America around the time of the Civil War by John Darby and as some have said "A lie can travel half way around the world, before the truth gets it's shoes on." The pretrib doctrine has since saturated the evangelical Church. However, some are now beginning to see the truth. Those who want to hold onto the false doctrine are condemning those who speak the truth in love.

God's Word is a self-correcting code. The Apostle Paul warned us in 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 that we will not be gathered until "after" the man of sin is revealed. All we have to do is heed Paul's warning instead of ignoring it and twisting God's Word to suit our doctrine.

I pray that you Brother will seek the truth and stop the condemnation.

For those who are seeking the truth, it is clear who is speaking it.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Grant Jeffreys revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Genesis of Dispensational Theology (on YouTube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4RS5pDntQ

.

.

TPeterY · Sep 25, 2014

BABerean2 said:
When the 3 1/2 years of Great Tribulation begins the persecution will intensify. Many will have to make the choice to either be killed or boldly proclaim the Gospel. Are you preparing them spiritually, to be ready for this?

Berean,

What could you possibly preach during the great tribulation? Your knowledge of the gospel is 99% internet, 1% bible.

What are you gonna talk to people about for 3 hours, the dispensation of john darby? Then wrapping it up by displaying the same ole' links below?

I find it hard to picture you capable of preaching anything other than what you preach 99% of the times on this forum.

So much for spiritually preparing others.

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Grant Jeffreys revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Genesis of Dispensational Theology (on YouTube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4RS5pDntQ

.

iamlamad · Sep 25, 2014

BABerean2 said:
You are correct about the finding the truth in your Bible. While you are reading your Bible, see if you can solve the following problems promoted by those who originated your doctrine.

One of Dispensationalism's most glaring problems is the claim to take a "literal" interpretation of scripture and then do the exact opposite. Listed below are a few of the most obvious examples.

Adding a gap to Daniel chapter 9, not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.
DANIEL put the gap in! Why not blame him? Did it just go right over your head that the 69 weeks are covered in verse 25, while the 70th is in 29. That is a GAP and separation.

Stating that Matthew chapter 24 was written to the Jews when the text clearly states Christ was talking to his Apostles, who he knew would be the leaders of His Church.
OF COURSE He was talking to His disciples. All are agreed about that. But they asked Him about the end of the age when He would return. He then answered their question: the 70th week of DANIEL (a Jew, a Hebrew) which would take place just before He comes. There is no verse anywhere that tells us this 70th week will be for the church. Next, Luke 21 was the same discourse, and speaks of synagogues. The church did not meet in synagogues. JEWS and HEBREWS meet in synagogues. Finally, there are no words that specifically tell us the church is included in that discourse. You are just imagining that part. Finally, just how much did Jesus know of the future then? He was still in human flesh at that time. He only knew of the future what the Holy Spirit revealed to Him. Perhaps He knew of the Gentile church to come; perhaps He did not at that time. You should know, Jesus was not teaching what He KNEW, He was teaching as He heard from the Holy Spirit.

Ignoring Paul's warning in 2nd Thess. chapter 2, verses 1-4.
NO ONE is ignoring Paul's thesis in 2 thes. 2. On the contrary, we understand it. We understand that before the man of sin can be revealed, whoever is restraining him MUST BE "taken out of the way." We understand that in verse 3b the man of sin IS REVEALED, showing that in verse 3a the one restraining has been DEPARTED or "taken out of the way." Sorry, but a "falling away" does not measure up as a translation that fits the context. A "departing" fits the context well.

Ignoring Paul's clear statements about the difference between Israel of the Flesh and Israel of the Promise in Romans 9, 10, and 11.
Does pretrib thought ignore this? Show us an example.

Changing the "so" of Romans 11:26 into an adverb of time instead of an adverb of manner.
How about we take "so" entirely out of the sentence:

New International Version
and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And then all Israel shall have life, according to what is written: The Savior shall come from Zion and he shall turn away evil from Jacob,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In this way Israel as a whole will be saved, as Scripture says, "The Savior will come from Zion. He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And so all Israel shall be saved,.... Meaning not the mystical spiritual Israel of God, consisting both of Jews and Gentiles, who shall appear to be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation, when all God's elect among the latter are gathered in, which is the sense many give into; but the people of the Jews, the generality of them, the body of that nation, called "the fulness" of them,

Do you disagree with Gill?

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
26, 27. And so all Israel shall be savedTo understand this great statement, as some still do, merely of such a gradual inbringing of individual Jews, that there shall at length remain none in unbelief, is to do manifest violence both to it and to the whole context. It can only mean the ultimate ingathering of Israel as a nation, in contrast with the present "remnant."

Producing a pretrib rapture by claiming that 1st Thess. chapter 4 is not related to Matthew chapter 24.

There are no verses ANYWHERE that link these two verses together. There ARE verses that prove they cannot be speaking of the same event. Just read it carefully: the Mat. 24 gathering gathers from HEAVEN. Or, if you wish to add Luke's input, from both heaven AND earth. Paul's rapture gathers from UNDER the earth, the ON the earth. One comes before the 70th week and Day of the Lord, while the other comes AFTER the 70th week. It is impossible that they are speaking of the same gathering. It is VERY likely that the gathering in Matthew 24 is speaking of God gathering the JEWS and Hebrews back to Israel.

Producing two separate kingdoms, the Church in heaven, and Israel on earth.
This is exactly what THE BIBLE tell us. It is not the fault of pretribbers that others cannot understand that God will rescue Israel at the end. Just for example, how about those that flee in Rev. 12:6 and are they supernaturally protected and fed?

Claiming that God offered the kingdom to the Jews, but they rejected it. What would have happened if they had accepted the kingdom?
This is nonsense. It is plain to all that Israel as a nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah. It is also plain that God has not given up on the Jews and Hebrews, but will deliver them at the end.

Claiming the last trumpet in scripture is not the last trumpet.
Paul did not SAY "the last trumpet in scripture." Paul did not know there would be a New Testament. He CERTAINLY did not know there would be a book of Revelation. His meaning is clear, it will be the last trumpet OF THE AGE - the last trumpet of the time of the Church. Moments after this trumpet sounds, the Day of the Lord has come. The age of Grace will be OVER. Did you ever hear of dispensations? God has worked differently with man during different ages.

Turning the word dispensation into a time period instead of the act of administering. A pharmacy dispenses medicine. The Apostle Paul was dispensing the Gospel.
An "ACT of administering?" Did God deal differently with those before the flood and those after the Law was given? Certainly He did. You KNOW He did. There was a time BEFORE the law, and there was a time AFTER the law. There was a time BEFORE the flood and a time AFTER the flood. There was a time BEFORE Christ rose from the dead, and a time AFTER He rose. In each of these cases, God CHANGED how He dealt with Man. NO ONE could be truly "saved" (make it from earth to heaven) before Jesus rose from the dead. So there was a "dispensation" where God dealt with man through the LAW, before Christ rose, then a dispensation where He dealt with man through GRACE AFTER Jesus rose. Someone would have to have very thick preconceived glasses on to miss these things.

Also, please avoid all historical writings that show the true origin of the pretrib doctrine. It could make you uncomfortable if you see part of it started with the "vision" of a teenage girl in 1830.

It is total MYTH that the pretrib rapture doctrine began with a vision. it began with Paul's revelation, and then his writing.

LAMAD

BABerean2 · Sep 25, 2014

The posters of the Rapture Cult have spoken. They cannot let go of their doctrine. When the truth of their doctrine is spoken, we hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth. They are like the mythical vampires being exposed to sunlight. However, in this case their doctrine is being exposed to the Light of the Son.

They have resorted to linking belief in their doctrine to some aspect of a Christian's salvation.
This makes the doctrine a cult.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Those who read this forum should not take their word or my word on any matter of doctrine. The question should always be...

"Which doctrine is most clearly stated in God's Word?"

God is not the author of confusion.

We should all prepare to face the enemy, just as Stephen did.

.

Rev20 · Sep 25, 2014

iamlamad said:
It is total MYTH that the pretrib rapture doctrine began with a vision. it began with Paul's revelation, and then his writing.

LAMAD

That is funny. You are joking, right?

.

Danoh · Sep 25, 2014

Great post, Lamad!

And the what if is solveable. Silly, but solveable.

One of three reasons it is, is that the Mystery is in light of, not becuase of, as well as not in answer to, God's having foreknown Israel would once more not obtain that which He seeketh for.

Again, that is only one of three reasons the what if Israel question is foolish at best. The other two, well, they too are solved for.

bibletruth469 · Sep 25, 2014

To bab, just because someone has a different view on the rapture does not make it a cult. That is very severe . There are many views about the timing. That's why we debate. I believe in a pre tribulation rapture because after I have studied scripture on the subject , pre trib is the only logical conclusion.

Danoh · Sep 25, 2014

BABerean2 said:
Brother Danoh,

Some on this forum have stated those who do not believe in the pretrib version of the rapture will be left behind and have to lose our heads to gain our salvation. They are part of the "Rapture Cult". They are stating some aspects of salvation or rewards are dependent upon belief in the pretrib doctrine.

You are getting very close to that, if you are not already there.

Many talk about our rewards and crowns. I will give my humble opinion. If there is anyone who is wearing a crown when the time comes, it will be taken off and handed to the One who earned it on the cross.

I only want one reward. I want to be in the presence of the One who bought me with His blood.

I am the one who drove the nails into His body. I do not deserve anything but death.

This morning I went to a local High School and later my former Middle School and participated in the national "See You at the Pole" day of prayer. It was my privilege to stand in a circle and hold the hands of young people and adults who were willing to pray on a public school campus. When it was my turn I simply spoke the truth about the Son of God and what He has done for me. I do not expect any reward in return. It is not about anything I have done or anything I could ever do.

It is about what He has done.

.

What I meant, BAB, is in this message, "The Christian Walk - by Richard Jordan"

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6LQTsjaDGF4

Bro in Christ · Sep 25, 2014

BABerean2 said:
Brother Danoh,

Some on this forum have stated those who do not believe in the pretrib version of the rapture will be left behind and have to lose our heads to gain our salvation. They are part of the "Rapture Cult". They are stating some aspects of salvation or rewards are dependent upon belief in the pretrib doctrine.

.

Any person that has heard the gospel and was indifferent or even rejected it will believe in thee lie .... 2 thes 2:9-12

BABerean2 · Sep 25, 2014

bibletruth469 said:
To bab, just because someone has a different view on the rapture does not make it a cult. That is very severe . There are many views about the timing. That's why we debate. I believe in a pre tribulation rapture because after I have studied scripture on the subject , pre trib is the only logical conclusion.

Brother Bibletruth469,

I agree with you completely, as long as there is no link between some aspect of salvation and belief in the pretrib doctrine.

Unfortunately, some on this forum have openly stated that those who do not believe in the pretrib doctrine will be "left behind" and have our heads removed by the antichrist system because we did not share their view of the pretrib doctrine.

Others have claimed those of another viewpoint will be punished for leading people astray.

In my humble opinion, those who make those claims are turning the doctrine into a cult.

If you believe it is not a salvation issue, then that is another matter.

BABerean2 · Sep 25, 2014

Danoh said:
What I meant, BAB, is in this message, "The Christian Walk - by Richard Jordan"

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6LQTsjaDGF4

Brother Danoh,

I could not get your link to work.

Danoh · Sep 25, 2014

BAB, look up that title on youtube, as I posted it from my phone, which may be why it did not work. Thanks

Danoh · Sep 25, 2014

BABerean2 said:
Brother Bibletruth469,

I agree with you completely, as long as there is no link between some aspect of salvation and belief in the pretrib doctrine.

Unfortunately, some on this forum have openly stated that those who do not believe in the pretrib doctrine will be "left behind" and have our heads removed by the antichrist system because we did not share their view of the pretrib doctrine.

Others have claimed those of another viewpoint will be punished for leading people astray.

In my humble opinion, those who make those claims are turning the doctrine into a cult.

If you believe it is not a salvation issue, then that is another matter.

BAB, he is far from alone in not seeing Pre-Trib as a salvation issue. There are many of like mind. You need to adjust for such things in your posts.

Bible2 · Sep 26, 2014

iamlamad said in post 487:

Paul did not SAY "the last trumpet in scripture." Paul did not know there would be a New Testament. He CERTAINLY did not know there would be a book of Revelation. His meaning is clear, it will be the last trumpet OF THE AGE - the last trumpet of the time of the Church.

Note that there is no such thing as the church age, for the church will continue in the world throughout all ages (Ephesians 3:21, John 17:15). For just as the church will continue in the world throughout the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and then throughout the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), so the church will then continue forever on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

iamlamad said in post 487:

The age of Grace will be OVER.

Regarding the present age (world) ending, note that nothing in verses like Ephesians 1:21b, Ephesians 1:10, Ephesians 3:2, Colossians 1:25, Titus 2:12b and Hebrews 6:5 says or requires that only the present age is an age of grace or a church age, or that the age to come won't also be an age of grace or a church age.

Also, the present age can include the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18) and the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20), with the age to come being the subsequent time of the new earth (Revelation 21). For the end of the present age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-15).

TPeterY · Sep 26, 2014

Danoh said:
What I meant, BAB, is in this message, "The Christian Walk - by Richard Jordan"

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6LQTsjaDGF4

Danoh,

Is this the video you're talking about? Just need to clarify this with you before commenting too much.

It's an excellent video. He teaches at a mature level expounding many of Paul's messages from watching a few of his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LQTsjaDGF4

.

BABerean2 · Sep 26, 2014

Danoh said:
What I meant, BAB, is in this message, "The Christian Walk - by Richard Jordan"

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6LQTsjaDGF4

Brother Danoh,

A number of years ago, a member of Herbert Armstrong's World Wide Church of God sent me some information. It contained a reference to the angels returning to earth in spaceships. When I told him I did not think it was scriptural, he made the following statement...

"You are not ready for meat. You are still feeding on milk."

The overall teaching by Richard Jordan was excellent.

However, using it as a tool to promote one's doctrine by saying anyone who disagrees with your doctrine is not ready for meat is a misapplication of that scripture, in my humble opinion.

.

shturt678s · Sep 26, 2014

Bro in Christ said:
Any person that has heard the gospel and was indifferent or even rejected it will believe in thee lie .... 2 thes 2:9-12

Little more specific, ie, had the right passage and idea.

Any person that has heard or seen enough truth in the essentials of the faith in the gospel message from heaven's view and doesn't have enough of an agape for that truth as appears fallacious to insane, then IIThess.2:11, 12 immediately comes to pass.

From this point on that person will believe whatever they want to believe.

Sorry, back to the topic,

Old Jack's opinion

Rapture Before Wrath

Newbie

Well-Known Member

But seek first the Kingdom of God....

Newbie

But seek first the Kingdom of God....

Lamad

Newbie

Partial Preterist

Newbie

Joyful

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Bible2

Guest

But seek first the Kingdom of God....

Newbie

Regular Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency