Rape proves objective morality?

[Hikarifuru]

True for both of us, I guess.

Post #943 of the thread titled, "Ex-Christians", you said:

Jesus specifically said that he would burn other humans and they would scream and grind their teeth in a fiery furnace.

Now, what were you saying about my system that can't operate without strawmen and ad hominem again?

Apology accepted in advance.

Matt 13.41 - 42
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Admitting that YOU (not me) resort to strawmen and ad hominem doesn't help you.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes.

Not sure of the relevance, you were being dishonest about my issues with Christianity. People don't tend to react kindly when others make things up them.

First you say you have issues, then you say they aren't issues, now you admit they are your issues. How is that me making things up?

 

[Aldebaran]

Matt 13.41 - 42
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Admitting that YOU (not me) resort to strawmen and ad hominem doesn't help you.

You left out what comes before what you quoted:

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

So, Dean, do you want to be a person of the Kingdom or a person of the evil one? Warning: God will respect your choice.

 

[Skavau]

First you say you have issues, then you say they aren't issues, now you admit they are your issues. How is that me making things up?

I have "issues", take "issue" when people lie about me. My disagreements with Christianity are not "issues".

You implied that my issue with Christianity was that I object to it saying to love one another. That is not true.

 

[Hikarifuru]

You left out what comes before what you quoted:

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

So, Dean, do you want to be a person of the Kingdom or a person of the evil one? Warning: God will respect your choice.

here you are not actually able to disagree with what I said again.

 

[Aldebaran]

here you are not actually able to disagree with what I said again.

You didn't even answer the question I asked you.

 

[Aldebaran]

I have "issues", take "issue" when people lie about me. My disagreements with Christianity are not "issues".

You implied that my issue with Christianity was that I object to it saying to love one another. That is not true.

That's one of the basics of Christianity. If you don't have an issue with the basics, then you have issues with far less important aspects of it. Maybe it's the part where Christ died for our sins so that we may be saved. I don't know. I'm tired of asking.

 

[Hikarifuru]

You didn't even answer the question I asked you.

Why would I when you weren't able to actually respond to what I provided you with? Why would I be obligated to answer your questions when you are not obligated to actually engage my points to you?

I said you were using straw man and ad hominem

You said you knew you were but that I was using straw men too.

I said Jesus tortures people

You called that a straw man

I proved Jesus tortures people

You said he wished he didn't have to torture people and asked me if I would accept him to avoid being tortured.

...


You don't see where the discussion broke from it's course?

 

[Skavau]

That's one of the basics of Christianity. If you don't have an issue with the basics, then you have issues with far less important aspects of it. Maybe it's the part where Christ died for our sins so that we may be saved. I don't know. I'm tired of asking.

I have issues with major aspects of Christianity but the "love one another" ideal I do not.

Vicarious redemption is one of them though.

 

[Aldebaran]

I have issues with major aspects of Christianity but the "love one another" ideal I do not.

Vicarious redemption is one of them though.

Maybe you just don't like redemption. Maybe you don't like the idea that you even need redemption. Some people like the idea that they can just do everything on their own. I see it all the time, even in myself. But we have to admit when we need help.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Maybe you just don't like redemption. Maybe you don't like the idea that you even need redemption. Some people like the idea that they can just do everything on their own. I see it all the time, even in myself. But we have to admit when we need help.

I don't like the idea that "I need redemption".

Sounds wrong to me.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't like the idea that "I need redemption".

Sounds wrong to me.

If a doctor told you that you needed surgery, you wouldn't like that either. But denying reality isn't healthy.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If a doctor told you that you needed surgery, you wouldn't like that either. But denying reality isn't healthy.

Lol obviously I'm not going to get into it with your reality comment. You couldn't possibly prove that a "need for redemption" is reality the way you could a need for surgery. It's an empty straw man

I will ask this though...do you believe man was created with a "sinful nature" as Angelquill claimed awhile back?

 

[Aldebaran]

Lol obviously I'm not going to get into it with your reality comment. You couldn't possibly prove that a "need for redemption" is reality the way you could a need for surgery. It's an empty straw man

I will ask this though...do you believe man was created with a "sinful nature" as Angelquill claimed awhile back?

My view is that we're born with a sin nature. Man wasn't originally created that way until man fell into sin through disobedience.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My view is that we're born with a sin nature. Man wasn't originally created that way until man fell into sin through disobedience.

Well that poses a bit of a problem doesn't it? If man was without sin to begin with...how could he disobey? If you're going to say that he didn't have a sinful nature...but had the ability.to sin, how.do we distinguish between the two? What's the difference between a "sinful nature" and the ability to sin?

 

[Aldebaran]

Well that poses a bit of a problem doesn't it? If man was without sin to begin with...how could he disobey? If you're going to say that he didn't have a sinful nature...but had the ability.to sin, how.do we distinguish between the two? What's the difference between a "sinful nature" and the ability to sin?

Seriously? I'm getting a sense of Deja Vu, which I think I've felt about a dozen times before in this forum. Why do these same topics keep coming up after they've been addressed so many times?

Here we go again. Adam and Eve had free will to either obey God, or to disobey God.

Before you bring up the subject of whether or not we have free will or even if there is any such thing as free will (that's all been addressed before as well), I'll ask you not to do it again.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Seriously? I'm getting a sense of Deja Vu, which I think I've felt about a dozen times before in this forum. Why do these same topics keep coming up after they've been addressed so many times?

Here we go again. Adam and Eve had free will to either obey God, or to disobey God.

Before you bring up the subject of whether or not we have free will or even if there is any such thing as free will (that's all been addressed before as well), I'll ask you not to do it again.

It's not a question of free will...we have free will too. You believe we sin, so did Adam and Eve even though they supposedly don't have the "sinful nature" we do. So if we both sin, we both have free will, how do you tell one who has a sinful nature from one who doesn't? What's to distinguish one from the other?

 

[Skavau]

Maybe you just don't like redemption.

In a broad scale, I suppose not.

Maybe you don't like the idea that you even need redemption.

Whether I do or not isn't the basis of my objection actually. You appear to be skirting around the main reasons that you well know about why vicarious redemption is objectionable to me.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's not a question of free will...we have free will too. You believe we sin, so did Adam and Eve even though they supposedly don't have the "sinful nature" we do. So if we both sin, we both have free will, how do you tell one who has a sinful nature from one who doesn't? What's to distinguish one from the other?

Actually, they didn't believe in sin. They were deceived into falling into sin. They believed the serpent's story that they would not really die if they ate the forbidden fruit. They believed the serpent instead of God.

Who will you choose to listen to? It really is a choice.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Actually, they didn't believe in sin. They were deceived into falling into sin. They believed the serpent's story that they would not really die if they ate the forbidden fruit. They believed the serpent instead of God.

Who will you choose to listen to? It really is a choice.

Yikes, I should've written that better...I can see how you misread it. Allow me to rephrase...

Modern day man commits sin (as you said, because of our sinful nature). Adam and Eve committed sin (in spite of the fact that you believe they did not have a sinful nature). If both modern man and Adam and Eve committed sins...then how do you tell which one has the sinful nature? What's the difference between one with a sinful nature and one without? (Since apparently they both commit sins)