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Xeno.of.athens

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Some propose a theory of atonement that involves the payment of a ransom. Holy scripture uses the word 'ransom' in connection with Christ's death. What is your opinion about it?

(Matthew 20:28 KJV) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(Mark 10:45 KJV) For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(1 Timothy 2:6 KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
 

d taylor

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Some propose a theory of atonement that involves the payment of a ransom. Holy scripture uses the word 'ransom' in connection with Christ's death. What is your opinion about it?

(Matthew 20:28 KJV) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(Mark 10:45 KJV) For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(1 Timothy 2:6 KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
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The ransom was Jesus' blood, which took away the sin of the world. Giving everyone free access to God's offer of Eternal Life to all who will believe in Jesus.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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The ransom was Jesus' blood, which took away the sin of the world. Giving everyone free access to God's offer of Eternal Life to all who will believe in Jesus.
To whom was the ransom paid?
 
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Fervent

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Ransom is an analogy, not an actual payment. There was no recipient of the ransom payment, though we were set free by Jesus' death and resurrection. As with most atonement theologies, we must be careful not to overextend what's written in the Bible and instead accept atonement as part of the mystery of God.
 
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d taylor

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To whom was the ransom paid?
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To God, as when Adam sinned God chose blood as the payment for sin. Blood is the atonement for sin, so Jesus being the perfect blood sacrifice and His shedding of blood the one time on the cross, is complete and no other sacrifice is needed. That is why Jesus sat down at he right hand of The Father.

Hebrews 10

 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Some propose a theory of atonement that involves the payment of a ransom. Holy scripture uses the word 'ransom' in connection with Christ's death. What is your opinion about it?

(Matthew 20:28 KJV) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(Mark 10:45 KJV) For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(1 Timothy 2:6 KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
We are all sinners and therefore have debt to God. Jesus paid for this debt on the cross. When He said 'it finished', in original Greek text you have the word 'tetelestai' which means paid for. Tetelestai used to be a stamp im ancient Greece which would be stamped on paid debt invoices.

It's like having a debt towards a bank, and someone (Jesus) pays for this.

Colossians 2:14: "God has paid our debt! He canceled the payment due for our sins and instead accepted the payment His Son Jesus provided when He died on the cross"

Noe, did Christ paid for all? No, otherwsoe all would go to Heaven as no one would have any debt. Christ only paid for the sins for all the believers.

And as Romans 9 teaches, He only paid for the sins of His elect. That's why it's called grace. The moment Christ says "I forgive you, because I paid for you' that moment the person is saved, sealed by the Spirit and becomes a Christian.
 
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d taylor

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We are all sinners and therefore have debt to God. Jesus paid for this debt on the cross. When He said 'it finished', in original Greek text you have the word 'tetelestai' which means paid for. Tetelestai used to be a stamp im ancient Greece which would be stamped on paid debt invoices.

It's like having a debt towards a bank, and someone (Jesus) pays for this.

Colossians 2:14: "God has paid our debt! He canceled the payment due for our sins and instead accepted the payment His Son Jesus provided when He died on the cross"

Noe, did Christ paid for all? No, otherwsoe all would go to Heaven as no one would have any debt. Christ only paid for the sins for all the believers.

And as Romans 9 teaches, He only paid for the sins of His elect. That's why it's called grace. The moment Christ says "I forgive you, because I paid for you' that moment the person is saved, sealed by the Spirit and becomes a Christian.
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And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Jesus' death on the cross was a substitutionary atonement for sins. He atoned for all the believers, not for every human being. Now, His blood was sufficient to pay for all of the sins of all people, but He did not do that. Or else all would go to Heaven as everyone's sin would be atoned for, and there no longer would be judgement, no sin for God to judge a person for. And we know this ain't true as many will go to hell.

To say that Christ died a vicarious death in the place of all sinners but that not all sinners will be saved is a contradiction.

The verse you mention, 1 John 2 2...
God has mitigated His wrath on sinners temporarily; by letting them live and enjoy earthly life. In that sense, Christ has provided a brief, temporal propitiation for the whole world.

But He satisfied fully the wrath of God eternally only for the elect who believe. Christ’s death had unlimited and infinite value because He is Holy God.

Thus, His sacrifice was sufficient to pay the penalty for all the sins of all whom God Himself brings to faith.
 
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bling

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To whom was the ransom paid?
When it comes to the New Testament times in the Roman empire, people are very knowledgeable of sons being kidnapper by criminal kidnappers for a huge ransom, paid by wealthy parents and hopefully accepted by the Kidnappers. Julious Ceasar was kidnapper by pirates at age 21 and a huge sum was paid by his parents to get him back, which most people in the Roman empire knew about.

We are really talking about atonement, which is a huge misunderstood topic with all the theories doing a poor job explaining, look at the ransom portion:

The Bible refers to Jesus’ sacrifice as a literal ransom payment:

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

1 Timothy 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time

Heb. 9: 15…now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We do have the blood specifically mentioned in Revelation 5:9 They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;

We should agree on:

1. Jesus life and death is the unbelievable huge ransom payment?

2. The ransom payment was made to set children free to go to the Kingdom and be with the Father?

3. Deity (Jesus and God both) made this unbelievable huge payment?

4. All these fit perfectly a ransom scenario?

5. The scripture is not describing Jesus’ cruel torturous death on the cross as being like a ransom payment, but as being a ransom payment?



Now think about this:

In the context of time and people being addressed how would they have understood this idea of an unbelievable huge ransom being paid. Does the “ransoming” fit a kidnapping ransom? The Bible tells us there is a ransom payment at least being offered and definitely made for “many” and “God’s saints” and there is a redemption (setting free).

Peter even helps us out more by contrasting the unbelievable huge payment of Christ to just a payment of silver and gold. Who might take silver and gold, so it can be a good analogy for Peter? 1 Peter 1:18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold,

A kidnapper, in general, holds back the parent’s children awaiting an acceptable ransom payment, so who do you blame for keeping children out of the Kingdom?

The Kidnapper cannot be God, since He is not an undeserving criminal kidnapper holding His own children back.

Also, the Kidnapper would not be satan, since God has the power to take from satan, without paying anything to satan. There is no cosmic Law saying you got to pay the kidnapper and it would be wrong to do so, if you could get around it and satan is fully undeserving.

We know death, sin and evil were concurred with Christ’s death and resurrection, but those are not tangible things needing to be paid anything.

So who is the kidnapper?

When you go up to a nonbelieving sinner, what are you trying to get him/her to accept: A doctrine, a denomination, a book, a theology, a church or something else. NO, you want the nonbeliever to accept “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” and if he does accept this, then a child of God is released to enter the Kingdom and be with God, but if the sinner rejects “Jesus Christ and Him crucifies” a child is kept out of the Kingdom.

Does this not sound very much like a kidnapping scenario with a ransom being offered?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is described in scripture as the ransom payment.

Could the sinner holding a child of God out of the Kingdom of God, be described as a criminal kidnapper?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is a huge sacrificial payment, like you find with children being ransomed?

Parents will make huge sacrificial payments to have their children released, but it is still up to the kidnapper to accept or reject the ransom.
 
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d taylor

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Jesus' death on the cross was a substitutionary atonement for sins. He atoned for all the believers, not for every human being. Now, His blood was sufficient to pay for all of the sins of all people, but He did not do that. Or else all would go to Heaven as everyone's sin would be atoned for, and there no longer would be judgement, no sin for God to judge a person for. And we know this ain't true as many will go to hell.

To say that Christ died a vicarious death in the place of all sinners but that not all sinners will be saved is a contradiction.

The verse you mention, 1 John 2 2...
God has mitigated His wrath on sinners temporarily; by letting them live and enjoy earthly life. In that sense, Christ has provided a brief, temporal propitiation for the whole world.

But He satisfied fully the wrath of God eternally only for the elect who believe. Christ’s death had unlimited and infinite value because He is Holy God.

Thus, His sacrifice was sufficient to pay the penalty for all the sins of all whom God Himself brings to faith.
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Not what the verse states (a temporal propitiation) for unbelievers. The verse plainly states Jesus has perfectly paid for all sin. It also does not say what you are also trying to make the verse say. Which is because all people have had their sin paid for, then all people wil be saved.

Receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation is not conditioned on sin. As all sin has been paid for, the only condition that is a factor in where a person spends their eternity. Either with God on the new earth or in the lake of fire, is has the person believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Sin plays no factor in whether a person has believed in Jesus. Meaning sin is not something a person has to conquer before they can believe in Jesus.

Jesus has paid for all sin past present and future for all people. What Jesus accomplished on the cross was perfect and complete and is finished. If you do not believe The Bibles verses that states this, then that is a sin you will have to deal with. As for not believing God at His word is sin, just take a look at Numbers 13,14 and the account of the 12 spies.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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As all sin has been paid for,
If all sin has been paid for, then there's no condemnation, and no one is going to hell.


Jesus has paid for all sin past present and future for all people.
No. Every one of your sins—past, present, and future—is forgiven if you choose to accept that gift of forgiveness by faith.

But this does not depend on us, but on God alone. We are spiritually dead, unable to save our self. If salvation depended on us, then none of us would be saved , because we all reject God.

Those who accept Him, accept Him by His grace.

God has a perfect plan. Do you think God's plan depend on us chosing? No.

Romans 9 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

It is our pride that we think our salvation depends on us in any sort of way
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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What was it then? If Christ did not atone for your sins, then God's wrath remains on you.
It was the shedding of the precious blood of Christ for the salvation of humanity; as a lamb's shed blood was sufficient to turn away the angel of death at the exodus, and this was a type of the shed blood of Christ, so it is with Christ's shed blood, it cleanses a person from sins and redeems souls.
 
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d taylor

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If all sin has been paid for, then there's no condemnation, and no one is going to hell.



No. Every one of your sins—past, present, and future—is forgiven if you choose to accept that gift of forgiveness by faith.

But this does not depend on us, but on God alone. We are spiritually dead, unable to save our self. If salvation depended on us, then none of us would be saved , because we all reject God.

Those who accept Him, accept Him by His grace.

God has a perfect plan. Do you think God's plan depend on us chosing? No.

Romans 9 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

It is our pride that we think our salvation depends on us in any sort of way
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No, you thinking that because all sin has been paid for, so no one goes to hell. Shows you do not understand why a person ends up in the lake of fire. It is not because of their sin.

Unlimited Atonement – Grace Evangelical Society
 
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bling

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To God, as when Adam sinned God chose blood as the payment for sin. Blood is the atonement for sin, so Jesus being the perfect blood sacrifice and His shedding of blood the one time on the cross, is complete and no other sacrifice is needed. That is why Jesus sat down at he right hand of The Father.

Hebrews 10

Please read my post 9.
 
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bling

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If all sin has been paid for, then there's no condemnation, and no one is going to hell.



No. Every one of your sins—past, present, and future—is forgiven if you choose to accept that gift of forgiveness by faith.

But this does not depend on us, but on God alone. We are spiritually dead, unable to save our self. If salvation depended on us, then none of us would be saved , because we all reject God.

Those who accept Him, accept Him by His grace.

God has a perfect plan. Do you think God's plan depend on us chosing? No.

Romans 9 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

It is our pride that we think our salvation depends on us in any sort of way
Please read my post 9.
Accepting the gift is not earning the gift.
 
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Clare73

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Some propose a theory of atonement that involves the payment of a ransom. Holy scripture uses the word 'ransom' in connection with Christ's death. What is your opinion about it?
My opinion is that Scripture is true. . .Jesus said that he "came to give his life as a ransom for many." (Mt 20:28)
(Matthew 20:28 KJV) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(Mark 10:45 KJV) For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(1 Timothy 2:6 KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
For all without distinction, not for all without exception.
 
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Clare73

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And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
The whole world can mean
all men without exception, or
all men without distinction.

When referring to the redeemed, it means all men without distinction.
 
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