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Rand Paul Says He’ll Force Vote on Hunter Biden Testimony If GOP Supports Impeachment Witnesses

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by NightHawkeye, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. whatbogsends

    whatbogsends Senior Veteran

    +4,824
    Atheist
    If your criteria for wanting to see them under oath is that someone "clearly lied on numerous occasions in the past", then you should also want to see Trump under oath. I mean, that dude clearly lied on thousands of occasions in the past.
     
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  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

    +948
    United States
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    I have no idea.

    The fact I'm not a Trump fan anymore, not that I was much of one to begin with, there have been times here just recently where I found myself somewhat hoping he does get removed from office. But not because of anything having to do with these articles of impeachment, but that I feel like he is making it very unsafe for Americans abroad and here at home, when he provokes countries like Iran by doing some of the things he has done lately.

    Maybe this falls under conspiracy theories, but some of us in America tend to think there are likely Iranian sleeper cells here in the USA awaiting orders to do who knows what in this country.

    In spite of all that, as to me hoping he might get removed, then I am reminded that the dirty tricks the House Democrats have done during the House hearings and continued to do after, would mean they got away with their dirty tricks altogether. You might ask, what dirty tricks? The latest example being Pelosi holding onto the impeachment articles hoping to get leverage on the Senate hearings. And in the House hearings, when Nadler was residing as Chairman, not giving the Minority their Minority Day hearings like they requested on numerous occasions. I can probably come up with a cpl of more examples, but off the top of my head these are some of the dirty tricks I witnessed them doing. Not to mention, the hearings Schiff was residing over. Lot of dirty tricks going on during that time. He, too, was very unfair to the House Republicans sitting in those hearings.

    So I am kind of between a rock and a hard place. On one hand I would like to see him removed because I feel like he is making it unsafe for Americans. And on the hand, if he is removed, that means all of the dirty tricks I witnessed the House Dems doing, would mean they got away with their dirty tricks, thus meaning dirty tricks tactics are ok and should be welcomed with open arms by every American, regardless.
     
  3. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +10,679
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    I've heard a few times that the Bidens have been investigated and cleared but I've never been able to find anything online about it. When did it happen and who investigated them, if you recall?
     
  4. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

    +948
    United States
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    Actually I think Trump should testily under oath. Didn't Clinton? And if Trump gets caught lying, which he obviously would, since I wholeheartedly agree with you that that dude has lied on thousands of occasions in the past, maybe millions even. But since Clinton was caught lying under oath but that nothing ever became of it, to be fair then, the same should be true for Trump, that even though he gets caught lying under oath, nothing more should become of it either.
     
  5. SimplyMe

    SimplyMe Senior Veteran

    +2,805
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    Since you mentioned him, Nunes is another that should clearly testify -- at least based on the claims that Nunes went to Ukraine and had dealings with Lev Parnas.
     
  6. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

    +7,430
    United States
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    Married
    Clinton lied under oath about sex with a young woman. Trump would lie about using his executive power to manipulate a foreign country's newly elected leader to dig up dirt on a political opponent. I think most people understand the latter is much more of a threat to the Constitution than the former.
     
  7. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think both sides have been just as guilty as the other in how they behave towards each other in hearings. As two groups they get an average of a C- from me. When either one gets the majority they lord it over the other. Retaliation seems to be the name of the game rather than ignoring what was done in the past and moving forward in co-operation and compromise.
    Never the less, you are saying that the Dems. broke the rules about allowing minority witnesses? I don't know as I don't watch all the hearings. I know that during the impeachment hearings the Republicans wanted to call Hunter Biden and the Whistleblower and Dems. said no, which they are allowed to do if they don't think the witness isn't within the scope of the purpose to the hearing.
     
  8. stevil

    stevil Godless and without morals

    +1,039
    New Zealand
    Atheist
    Private
    Interesting

    So you are fine with abuse of power and obstruction of congress?

    This isn't an impeachable offense though. It isn't a high crime or misdemeanour.
    I think this is a big failing of the USA system.
    I do think, that if your leader turns out to be a fool and unfit for the position then I think the ruling party should be able to fire him/her and vote amongst themselves for a new party leader/president. I don't know why USA folk find this so objectionable.
    BUT, given the system you have today, you can't do this.

    This is probably true of many countries.

    These are completely unrelated. Your logic is falling apart here.
    1. You cannot impeach your president simply because you don't like him, or think he is a fool, or don't like his foreign policies.
    2. Trump isn't being impeached due to his unlikability or his foreign policies.
    3. Regardless of whether you like or dislike certain Democrats or like or dislike some of their actions, this has nothing to do with whether Trump has abused his power or obstructed congress.
    4. It's not about Dems winning or Repubs winning.

    Either Trump committed the offences that he is being charged with or he didn't. That is the only thing to judge with regards to this impeachment.

    If you think he didn't commit those offences OR if you think he did but don't consider those worthy of throwing him out of office, then tell your government representatives that you support them voting against the charges laid.

    If you simply think Trump is a fool and would rather have a different Republican leader, then try to convince the Republican party to hold Primaries for the 2020 election.
     
  9. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

    +948
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    Those are bogus charges in my view, especially obstruction of Congress. How can it be obstruction of Congress if Congress never even took these matters to the Courts for the Courts to enforce these subpoenas? As to the abuse of power---you have to be kidding. These House Democrats have zero room to talk. If what some of them have done recently are not perfect examples of abuse of power, then I give up, this must be the Twilight Zone then, maybe that explains things.
     
  10. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

    +5,345
    France
    Atheist
    Single
    The Republican senate leader (jury foreman) had publicly announced that he was coordinating with the White House (accused) and would not be an impartial juror. Here’s the full quote:

    Now given that the lead senate Republican came out and said those things, is it really fair to accuse the Democratic House leadership of dirty tricks for asking for some guarantees of fairness before moving forward with the trial?
     
  11. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

    +7,505
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    Not that anyone's been able to demonstrate, and if so, who cares? What difference does a guy knowing someone's name make to the testimony presented showing that Donald abused the power of his office?
     
  12. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

    +7,505
    Atheist
    Private
    Yet earlier you thought it was vital to get Schiff under oath for allegedly lying about something while not even under oath.

    I'm not seeing much consistency here.
     
  13. whatbogsends

    whatbogsends Senior Veteran

    +4,824
    Atheist
    While nothing "came of it" for Clinton regarding his Presidency, Clinton did get disbarred because of his perjury. There was a punishment, although I doubt he would have been practicing law anyway, so the punishment had little consequence.

    As far as consequences for Trump lying, it would depend on the substance of the lie. If he lies about something trivial like his standard grand exaggerations, then he should get hit with perjury but very little consequence (i.e. something symbolic like Clinton got). If, however, he lies about something material to the events in Ukraine, then I would hope the consequence would be greater (though I doubt it).
     
  14. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

    +7,051
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Democrat
    The Ukrainian government conducted an investigation on Burisma and the Biden's and found no wrongdoing. As you may have heard, when Biden demanded the removal of the corrupt prosecutor, he was doing so on the orders of Obama and with the support of NATO. He was an emissary, nothing more.
    Perhaps President Obama should testify to that because there is nothing that will shine the truth on President Trump more strongly than him sitting in court cowering in the shadow of our former president.
     
  15. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    +8,750
    Methodist
    Married
    Provide citation please.
     
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