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You guys did -- here: 1.Who said?
Yet of any evidence for how God accomplished his creation acts (tools, methods etc.) there is a complete vacuum and utter silence.
I'd say that this vacuum of evidence is a strong indication that creation never happened the way the Bible portrays it.
If God created a loaf of raisin bread ex nihilo tomorrow, would you accuse Him of deception?
</mysterious delurk>
Wow, three posts in 6 1/2 years, and to make a point about raisin bread? You do delurk in mysterious ways.
Creatio ex nihilo leaves no evidence behind.
Creatio ex nihilo leaves no evidence behind.
Of course, these are all silly questions, because the O.P. is silly.
No. 'Creation out of nothing' means what is says nothing more and nothing less (excuse the pun) and that means it does not include the condition that it leaves no evidence behind. That is your embellishment and, as I proposed, a cop-out.
Of course absence of evidence is not evidence for absence. However, just because there is no evidence for a biblical 'creation out of nothing', does not mean such (absense of evidence) is an essential, constituent part of the (theoretical/theological) phenomenon of 'Creatio ex nihilo' look it up, it's not. In fact, in the face of other evidence, it goes against the biblical creation stories.
You do realize that you are ridiculing an example that can help you understand, don't you?Of course, these are all silly questions, because the O.P. is silly.
Are you talking about some sort of alternative universe where there is no evidence that shows the earth as being millions of years old?Nothing spilled, no leftovers, no oven cooling down, no dirty pots and pans, no background radiation, no big bang heard -- nothing.
No.Are you suggesting that God is incapable of creating a loaf of raisin bread in such a manner that it would leave evidence behind in the bread itself that would indicate it is created 'ex nihilo'?
That's why He admitted to what He did -- in Writing.The best that he can hoenstly claim, is that God can create out of nothing without leaving evidence behind, if He wanted to.
but instead you find that a loaf of bread is quite complex and there are questions which you simply cannot answer in regard to this act of creation.The point of this thread is that God cannot create a simple thing as a loaf of raisin bread without incurring the charge of 'deception', let alone a whole universe.
That's why He admitted to what He did -- in Writing.
The Bible replaces any evidence He would have had to manufacture to convince us empirically.
In short, He convinces us through the heart, not through the empirical senses -- inside out, so to speak.
Um ... MoonLancer ... the focus should actually be on the raisins, not the bread.but instead you find that a loaf of bread is quite complex and there are questions which you simply cannot answer in regard to this act of creation.
He did.If God wants to admit something he can do it personally.
You must not understand the would "personally". the bible was written by men, and in no way that even reconciles what we are talking about. It makes contradictory statements which simply shows its wrong.He did.
What makes you so special that you can demand a one-on-one with God for the purpose of clarifying Genesis 1, when Christians are praying and asking God why their loved ones are lying in hospitals dying of cancer and whatnot?You must not understand the would "personally"
No, I don't.You do realize that you are ridiculing an example that can help you understand, don't you?
No, you claim it is Blasphemy.I don't believe God went the TE route, but I don't say it is 'silly'.
I never mentioned deception.The point of this thread is that God cannot create a simple thing as a loaf of raisin bread without incurring the charge of 'deception', let alone a whole universe.
And while I don't believe in Omphalism, it's not because it is 'silly' or 'deceptive'.
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