Quick Question

[Douggg]

Since your answer is based on a future 70th week of Daniel, despite what the Bible says in Matthew 10:5-7, and Acts of the Apostles 10:36-38, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which reveal a time period of about 7 years when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles, your whole answer must be discarded.


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Daniel 8 time of the end prophecy of the little horn>Antichrist>beast is 2300 days.

 

[Timtofly]

I see. So your contention is that the term “the last hour“ really is meaningless.
It has no discernible meaning from a timing standpoint at all?

One question. What do you suppose Jesus meant by “near” in Matthew 24:33?
Same thing John meant by “the last hour”?
An Indiscernible amount of time that could stretch millennia? As in “near to God”?
Jesus is God after all, it would make sense he would always use the term near in the “near to God” sense, right?

So God coming to earth is meaningless as you put it? No one should ever hope that it is near or soon? They would just be meaningless liars like modern day prognosticators?

Except the NT was proclaiming the Word of the Lord.

Are you not basing the truth of the NT on the frailties of modern humans?

 

[Timtofly]

Been done, for entertainment pusposes.

No it has not!

When a robot starts thinking on it's own intelligence, it will be too late for you to do anything about it.

 

[Timtofly]

It only takes one verse to prove Satan and the wicked angels have already been cast out of the third heaven.
2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;.

It only takes one 5th Trumpet to set them free. They get kicked out a second time.

Wait you only seem to accept first time only events, with no follow up.

Your scenario has everything destroyed, so you conveniently have no seconds at all.

What sin did Satan do that directly defied God? Name the sin that God commanded Satan not to do. Not who he is, but the one act that got him fired. Then explain, how God fired him, and then let him in the Garden? Why did God boast about Job, and then honored Satan's wishes? For being fired and cast out, Satan was sure busy hanging out with God and the cream of the crop.

 

[BABerean2]

What sin did Satan do that directly defied God?

The Fall

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


.

 

[BABerean2]

Daniel 8 time of the end prophecy of the little horn>Antichrist>beast is 2300 days.

I will go with what the angel Gabriel said, instead of what men say.


The Interpretation of the Vision

Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
Dan 8:18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Dan 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.


Also see John 10:22.

Get a good book on ancient history if you want to understand the above.

After Alexander the Great died four of his generals took over his kingdom.

Antiochus Ephiphanes came out of one of those four kingdoms.
The Jews who lived during the time of Christ celebrated Hanukkah every year.

You have to ignore all of the above to make your viewpoint work.

.

 

[parousia70]

So God coming to earth is meaningless as you put it?

Of course not. Where did I say that?

No one should ever hope that it is near or soon?

If it wasn’t true, as you claim, why should people have hoped for it? Why would God want any of His flock to believe a lie for thousands of years?
What benefit do you see in multiple generations of Christians putting their faith in what you claim was a falsehood?

Are you not basing the truth of the NT on the frailties of modern humans?

How can you simultaneously call something you believe is false to be true? And you didn’t answer my question about Matthew 2433. How should we understand “near at hand” in THAT passage?
Literal or not?

 

[Timtofly]

The Fall

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This was before sin entered the world. Neither was sin allowed in the Garden of Eden. Saying sin was exercised in the Garden, even by Satan, still contradicts other Scriptures.

 

[Timtofly]

Of course not. Where did I say that?

If it wasn’t true, as you claim, why should people have hoped for it? Why would God want any of His flock to believe a lie for thousands of years?
What benefit do you see in multiple generations of Christians putting their faith in what you claim was a falsehood?


How can you simultaneously call something you believe is false to be true? And you didn’t answer my question about Matthew 2433. How should we understand “near at hand” in THAT passage?
Literal or not?

You are claiming a falsehood, not me. Yes it was near at hand then. It is still near at hand now.

 

[parousia70]

You are claiming a falsehood, not me. Yes it was near at hand then. It is still near at hand now.

However, By definition, The same event can’t be “near at hand” for two different generations separated by millennia.
Clearly you are the one claiming the falsehood.

Again, please exegete Matthew 24:33.
Should “near at hand” be understood to mean “possibly thousands of years away” in that passage?

 

[Douggg]

I will go with what the angel Gabriel said, instead of what men say.


The Interpretation of the Vision

Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
Dan 8:18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Dan 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.


Also see John 10:22.

Get a good book on ancient history if you want to understand the above.

After Alexander the Great died four of his generals took over his kingdom.

Antiochus Ephiphanes came out of one of those four kingdoms.
The Jews who lived during the time of Christ celebrated Hanukkah every year.

You have to ignore all of the above to make your viewpoint work.

.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

[BABerean2]

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Context, context, context.

At the time of the end of what??? At the time of the end of their kingdoms. "in the latter time of their kingdom..."


Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Dan 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.



Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
Dan 8:18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.


Are you claiming the empires of the Medes, and the Persians, and the Greeks have not occurred yet?

If you have to ignore part of the passage to make your doctrine work, you have exposed it for what it really is.
.

 

[Douggg]

Are you claiming the empires of the Medes, and the Persians, and the Greeks have not occurred yet?

The 2300 days and the little horn are time of the end.

"little horn>Antichrist>beast" is in and of itself a mini-timeline of the time of the end person.

 

[BABerean2]

The 2300 days and the little horn are time of the end.

Yes. The angel Gabriel said it was the time of the end of the kingdoms of Medo-Persia, and the Greeks.

Get a good book on ancient history to help you, and then read John 10:22.


.

 

[Timtofly]

However, By definition, The same event can’t be “near at hand” for two different generations separated by millennia.
Clearly you are the one claiming the falsehood.

Again, please exegete Matthew 24:33.
Should “near at hand” be understood to mean “possibly thousands of years away” in that passage?

Why are you skipping all the generations in between. They did not pass that as truth to the last generation, thus your error.

 

[Job3315]

Out of curiosity, who do y'all think the Antichrist will be? I've been studying the evidence for quite some time, and have come to the conclusion that the Antichrist will be a specific Muslim figure, but I would like to know what y'all think and why.

I had a dream with a handsome man in a gray suit. He was a false prophet and he was wearing an army green jacket, but I knew it was for show, I knew he wasn't a soldier. Then he was wearing the gray/silver suit and he kept fixing it to make it straight. He looked a lot like a singer I know as Dani (Daniel); he used to be the lead singer of a band from Spain called The song of the crazy man (translated). Then I had a vision with a very hansom man who was also wearing a gray/silver suit. He looked indian-american. He was going one direction in a highway, but then stopped in the middle of the road and changed cars and directions. For years I’ve been sensing the antichrist will be a prophet of God who went astray, so I wonder if that man I am seeing in my dreams is he antichrist. He looked like some sort or celebrity.

 

[Jipsah]

No it has not!

When a robot starts thinking on it's own intelligence, it will be too late for you to do anything about it.

Robots thinking on their own is no closer now than it was when computers were invented. Faster, more powerful, useful for more things, but no nearer thinking than a cord of firewood.

 

[Berean Tim]

Please pray for Christ to open your eyes according to God’s Will and I am praying for you as well. The only way to Truly understand God’s Word is by direct intervention by Christ. When He comes to you and opens your eyes and ears the experience is not only incredible but you continue to grow. He came to me over 30 years ago and God’s plan is perfect. I thought I was born again many years earlier. I was wrong. Much of the New Testament deals with the Spiritual awakening that must occur.

Re-reading the post, could you tell your experience ? Give a testimony so to speak. You can send a message if you prefer

 

[lsume]

Re-reading the post, could you tell your experience ? Give a testimony so to speak. You can send a message if you prefer

The Bible is Spiritual and many read it as physical. Something I’ve observed over the years is that there seems to be a physical manifestation of the spiritual reality. I have read secular accounts of events that describe certain experiences that indicate this separation. Your inquiry indicates the desire to find The Truth to me. When I was a young married man in the military many years ago, my wife and I were avid church goers and supporters. The small country church we attended was fundamental in much of its teaching. I had accepted Christ all of my life I had thought. It wasn’t until about 16 years later that I was called by The Father. Christ came to me and opened my eyes to The Word. That was just the beginning for me and that was over 30 years ago. I’ve got parts of my testimony scattered around this site but I’ve saved some. If you have continued interest, perhaps I can send it your way via this site.

Mark.8 Verses 35 to 38

1. 
   
   [35] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
   [36] For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
   [37] Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
   [38] Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

 

[Xarto]

Probably someone from the West who is really charismatic and probably pretends to be Christian comes across as Christian through his charity work etc.