Quick Question

[MbiaJc]

DEACON
diakonos NT:1249, (Eng., "deacon"), primarily denotes a "servant," whether as doing servile work, or as an attendant rendering free service, without particular reference to its character.


1 Cor 3:5
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
KJV

2 Cor 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
KJV

2 Cor 6:4
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
KJV

1 Tim 3:8
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
KJV


Same greek word just translated differently

Yes, however contex determins how transulated. Look at your contex.

 

[MbiaJc]

Were they "elders" because of their age?

Actually, they were Apostles (Apostleship was a greater spiritual gift than eldership in terms of "teaching").

In the book of Hebrew, it talks about the great apostle, Christ. You know what apostle means? "Sent one," and after Christ, and you would say Christ is capital APOSTLE, as the Great ‘APOSTLE’. Then you have the twelve, they are ‘Apostle.’ And then you have Andronicus, Junias and the whole bunch--Barnabas, and they are 'apostle' which means a broad word, is like "servant," "sent one." We can look at 'apostles' in an official capacity or an unofficial one without the "Apostle" gifts. Andronicus and Junias and those were "sent ones" they were like missionaries, there is a sense in which today, some of us are "sent ones". Apostle (with capital A) out of due season and in a very special way, then plus a lot of other apostles (in lower case 'a'). In Ephesians 2:20 says the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Hebrews 3:1 [ Jesus Greater Than Moses ] Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest whom we confess. The gifts and title of Apostleship are significant enough to be declared, along with prophets, as the foundation of the church (Eph. 2:20).

And

 

[MbiaJc]

Yea, except that the Bible doesnt say that education is bad, simply that THe Holy Spirit will guide you. I know what it means to be called brother, and I also know what it means for someone to call you it when they are trying to pretend some sort of "friendly" situation when that is not their intent..

And you have totally quoted that verse out of context. Thanks for proving my point.

One thing I have learned through the years is, most are guilty of what they accuse others of.

BTW you sure don't have the gift of Spiritual discurnment.

 

[JacobHall86]

One thing I have learned through the years is, most are guilty of what they accuse others of.

BTW you sure don't have the gift of Spiritual discurnment.

Since you quoted a verse out of context, I dont have the gift of Discernment? How do you figure that?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

You didn't answer my question, all you are doing is dodging the question, with part truths. The only one of the Apostles that had a formal education was Paul and Luke the Phicisian. The rest were acording to the Sanhedrin they were unlearned ignorant men.

You are still not giving any scripture to prove your point either putup or shutup.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Why did Jesus start His ministery at 30 yr. old?

Why not at 20 or 40,50 or some other age?

And what does this tell us?

Luke 1:5. In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.

Luke 1:26. Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth,
27. to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28. And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
29. But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was.
30. The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31. "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
32. "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
33. and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
34. Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
35. The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
36. "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.

Matt.2:1. Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying,
2. "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him."

Matt.2:14. So Joseph got up and took the Child and His mother while it was still night, and left for Egypt.
15. He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON."
Herod Slaughters Babies
16. Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi.

Matt.2:19. But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord *appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, and said,
20. "Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child's life are dead."

Luke 3:1. Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene,
2. in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness.
3. And he came into all the district around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;


The Herod, king of Judea, referred to by both Luke and Matthew was Herod, the son of Idumean Antipater, who was given the title "King of Judea" by the Roman Senate in 40 B.C. and who established himself in his reign in 37 B.C. (see Flavius Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews 15.8,1 § 191). He died in 4 B.C. Therefore Jesus was born no later than 4 B.C. (Dionysius Exiguus gave us the wrong year of the Birth of Jesus and hence 2007 is really no earlier than 2011).

The fifteenth year of the reign Tiberius Caesar was from August or September of 28 A.D. to August or September 29 A.D. (For the establishment of these dates see Jack Finegan’s Handbook of Biblical Chronology, pp. 259-280 and H. W. Hoehner’s Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ, pp. 29-44). Therefore John the Baptist began his ministry no earlier than August of 28 A.D. From 4 B.C. to 28 A.D. is 32 years. Therefore, assuming Luke and Matthew’s statements to have been correct, Jesus could not have been less than 32 years old when he began is public ministry. Therefore, the better question is why did Jesus wait till he was 32 years old or older to begin his public ministry, reducing to total irrelevancy the age of the Old Testament Levite priests, Jewish teachers, etc.

Therefore the answers that I gave in post #6 of this thread are the correct answer to the questions in the opening post.

“I believe that the age of Jesus when He began His ministry was irrelevant. He began His ministry when He did in response to what was going on around Him in both His immediate environment and the greater environment of the Hellenistic culture of His day. The number one factor was that John the Baptist had begun his ministry and the ministry of Jesus was dependent upon it. Everything else also had to be in place, including the tetrarchs, Pilot as governor, etc., in order for the prophesies concerning Jesus to be fulfilled.”

(All quotations from Scripture are from the Updated NASB, 1995)

 

[RED that's ME]

Here's the scripture that talks about age in the tabernacle. I didn't catch previously that it cuts off the age at 50 before....interesting.

Numbers 4:3 From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 4:23 From thirty years old and upward until fifty years old shalt thou number them; all that enter in to perform the service, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 4:30 From thirty years old and upward even unto fifty years old shalt thou number them, every one that entereth into the service, to do the work of the tabernacle of the congregation.

[SIZE=+0]Numbers 4:35 From thirty years old and upward even unto fifty years old, every one that entereth into the service, for the work in the tabernacle of the congregation:
Numbers 4:39 From thirty years old and upward even unto fifty years old, every one that entereth into the service, for the work in the tabernacle of the congregation,
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[SIZE=+0]Numbers 4:43 From thirty years old and upward even unto fifty years old, every one that entereth into the service, for the work in the tabernacle of the congregation,
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[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Numbers 4:47 From thirty years old and upward even unto fifty years old, every one that entereth into the service, for the work in the tabernacle of the congregation,

[/SIZE]
Numbers 8:24 This is it that belongeth unto the Levites: from twenty and five years old and upward they shall go in to wait upon the service of the tabernacle of the congregation:

 

[JacobHall86]

Wow, good point Red. MBjiac's point seems to leave out that if you are over 50 you are not allowed to be a priest and must do something else. Hmmmmmmmmm, selective memory or application maybe? Must be an over 50 thing.

Hypocrite.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Wow, good point Red. MBjiac's point seems to leave out that if you are over 50 you are not allowed to be a priest and must do something else. Hmmmmmmmmm, selective memory or application maybe? Must be an over 50 thing.

Hypocrite.

In terms of eldership and teaching elders, age is not an issue but for maturity perspective, 30 years old is recommended based on the Scriptures (i.e. Christ was 30 when He started). I know great preachers and teachers who kept on teaching/preaching up to 100 years old or older.

 

[JacobHall86]

In terms of eldership and teaching elders, age is not an issue but for maturity perspective, 30 years old is recommended based on the Scriptures (i.e. Christ was 30 when He started). I know great preachers and teachers who kept on teaching/preaching up to 100 years old or older.

I agree, I am by no means against preachers past the age of 50, I was pointing out the inconsistency in MBjiac's post and limitations on age, saying that they had to be 30 based on Numbers, but left out that they had to quit at 50.

BTW, Priesthood of the Believer also destroys this idea.

 

[RED that's ME]

Jacob I didn't post that to show up MbiaJc. I just found it interesting, after I found the verses.
I have a lot of respect for MbiaJc and he has made a lot of good contributing to posting here.

 

[PETE_]

The Levites had to carry the Tabernacle. A tough job for those over 50.

 

[MbiaJc]

The Levites had to carry the Tabernacle. A tough job for those over 50.

Hi Pete:

Hadn't thought of that: thanks.

 

[MbiaJc]

Jacob I didn't post that to show up MbiaJc. I just found it interesting, after I found the verses.
I have a lot of respect for MbiaJc and he has made a lot of good contributing to posting here.

Thanks sister, if he had read my post with an open mind he would have understood what I was putting on the table. That just what the Seminaries are turning out these days. SAD

 

[JacobHall86]

Actually, if every other post you made wasnt degrading to Young Pastors I might have looked at it with an open mind. But thats simply not the case.

 

[MbiaJc]

In terms of eldership and teaching elders, age is not an issue but for maturity perspective, 30 years old is recommended based on the Scriptures (i.e. Christ was 30 when He started). I know great preachers and teachers who kept on teaching/preaching up to 100 years old or older.

Hi Jim:

Actually my intended point was to show, that a man in the New Testament Church, according to scripture, becomes an Elder. And can and should be appointed, by the Church to that position. According to scripture the Elders are the under Sheppard of the local Church. That not the way Churches do it these days, but it should be. Everyone won’t to know what the matter these days. We are loosing members, and don’t have the power and influence we once had. The answers are simple.
#1. Get back to the doctrine that is clearly brought out in scripture.
#2. The falling away that is spoken of in 2 Thes. 2:3 is upon us. It is not as much that members are leaving the church, which they are also. But as the members left there are, falling away from sound doctrine. If you remember every denomination except the Catholic, Independent and Primitive Baptist Churches have changed their doctrine in these last few years. And all this false doctrine being taught today can be traced right back to the Seminaries from which it came. It all started with the devil pulling the same trick he did with Eave in the garden. He said yeah just what does God word say? Then he came up with this evolution theory. The seminaries boys have run with that till they have declared that the book of Genesis is all fables and Paul’s writings are not authoritative. They haft to teach that first to be able to teach that women, practicing gays and lesbians are qualified to preach and pastor.

 

[DeaconDean]

What about King David? Wasn't he anointed as King at a very young age? And how about the three Hebrew children? It is assumed that not only were they very young, but they, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, after coming out of the firey furnace, were:

"Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in the province of Babylon." -Dan. 3:30 (KJV)

And unless I'm mistaken, wasn't Jesus in the temple at 12 years old:

"And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast...And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?" -Lk. 2:42, 46-49 (KJV)

So technically, didn't Jesus start His ministry at 12 y/o?

Who's to say that a young man who leaves high school, goes to seminary, gets his degree and leaves isn't qualified?
God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[RED that's ME]

I don't why there's a difference in between ages serving as a king and serving in the temple. That would be a good thing to find out IMO. Serving in the temple I know has a greater importance, especially eternally than being king of a nation.

The youngest person to serve as a king in the Bible was Jehoash. There's no way that a person that young can truly be a king on his own. 2 King 11:21 Seven years old was Jehoash when he began to reign.
Jehoash though had the temple high priest Jehoiada, (also his sister's husband) instructing him on how to rule the nation.

Studying scripture many of the younger kings who succeeded successfully, got their wisdom from God, the temple priests & God's prophets.

God can and does use younger people. I'm a testament of that. I started working preschool and in the AWANA program at my church at a young age.

God uses people who are willing to be used. God also uses people in certain positions cause the ones who should be doing it, are unwilling & disobeying God in their lives.

 

[MbiaJc]

What about King David? Wasn't he anointed as King at a very young age? And how about the three Hebrew children? It is assumed that not only were they very young, but they, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, after coming out of the firey furnace, were:

"Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in the province of Babylon." -Dan. 3:30 (KJV)

And unless I'm mistaken, wasn't Jesus in the temple at 12 years old:

"And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast...And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?" -Lk. 2:42, 46-49 (KJV)

So technically, didn't Jesus start His ministry at 12 y/o?

Who's to say that a young man who leaves high school, goes to seminary, gets his degree and leaves isn't qualified?
God Bless

Till all are one.

Dean there is a big difference between king and priest. You are leaning to your own understanding, not the word of God. And no he did not start His ministry at age 12. His ministry started when John baptized Him and the Holy Ghost rested on Him in the form of a dove. Some complicate the answer to the question, trying to make it fit their preconceived ideas. The simple truth is the Church and its leadership is set up like the Leviticus priesthood. God said, priest start their duties in the temple at age 30 and serve in the temple till age 50. >>THAT SETTLES IT<< It is the same with women, God said they couldn't be Preachers or Pastors>>THAT SETTLES IT<< It doesn't matter that she is capable of doing it. What maters is God is not going to call her to preach or pastor>>THAT SETTLES IT<<Same way with mans service, God does not use him till is designated time is complete. Notice I didn't say call him, because his call to salvation and discipleship is one and the same. God does not call one to salvation and years later to preach or pester. He does it all at the same time. We are all priests and all are to preach and pastor at the right time. Our service in the Church is simply using the gifts given to us by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and also some by the Church.
BTW preaching is only heralding the Gospel the good news. Evangelist (heralds the Gospel) actually comes under the gift of teaching. Every thing else vocal either come under the gift of Apostle or Prophet. Carefully compare 1Cor. 12:28 with Eph. 4:11. EPh. 4 does not have but 3 verbal gifts which agrees with 1Cor. 12:28, however there are 4 positions.

 

[JacobHall86]

Some complicate the answer to the question, trying to make it fit their preconceived ideas.

Irony.