Questions on the extent of God’s sovereignty.

[Hammster]

There is no general drop dead time, it would be different for every individual who goes to hell.

Then your post makes no sense.

 

[bling]

Then your post makes no sense.

God is the only one who would know when an individual reached the point, when nothing more can be done for that individual that would cuase them to humbly accept His charity, so they are definitely lost forever, yet they are still alive and can be used by God to help others.

 

[bling]

He didn’t say that he couldn’t. He said that what He was willing to do, the Pharisees were not willing to do. You have to look at the context.

From the "context" it is the unwillingness of those in Jerusalem which Kept Christ from helping them.

 

[Hammster]

God is the only one who would know when an individual reached the point, when nothing more can be done for that individual that would cuase them to humbly accept His charity, so they are definitely lost forever, yet they are still alive and can be used by God to help others.

The verse wasn’t about individuals. So try again

 

[Hammster]

From the "context" it is the unwillingness of those in Jerusalem which Kept Christ from helping them.

Not what it says. Let’s take a look.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
— Matthew 23:37

For your view to be right, it would have to say this.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
— Matthew 23:37

So the “you were unwilling” would refer back to the “you”. However, he says He wanted to gather “your children”. Their unwillingness, as you see it (if we left the verse intact) would be causing the children to not come. And that doesn’t make sense, either.

However, if we take it as it is, and see that Jesus was willing to do something that they were not willing to do, which fits the context of the “woes”, then it makes sense. And the next verse just confirms it.

Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
— Matthew 23:38

For all of their rejection of Christ, their house (the temple) is left desolate. Which did happen in 70AD.

 

[bling]

The verse wasn’t about individuals. So try again

What verse are you talking about?
We are talking about God's sovereignty.

 

[Hammster]

What verse are you talking about?
We are talking about God's sovereignty.

The one that started us down this trail.

Then the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines and the Arabs who bordered the Ethiopians;
— 2 Chronicles 21:16

 

[bling]

Not what it says. Let’s take a look.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
— Matthew 23:37

For your view to be right, it would have to say this.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
— Matthew 23:37

So the “you were unwilling” would refer back to the “you”. However, he says He wanted to gather “your children”. Their unwillingness, as you see it (if we left the verse intact) would be causing the children to not come. And that doesn’t make sense, either.

However, if we take it as it is, and see that Jesus was willing to do something that they were not willing to do, which fits the context of the “woes”, then it makes sense. And the next verse just confirms it.

Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
— Matthew 23:38

For all of their rejection of Christ, their house (the temple) is left desolate. Which did happen in 70AD.

"Jerusalem" did not kill and stone the prophets, but the Children of Jerusalem did.
Jesus is saying he wants to protect and preserve (save) the Jewish people in Jerusalem (Jerusalem's children).
Who or what is keeping Jesus from saving the children of Jerusalem?

 

[bling]

The one that started us down this trail.

Then the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines and the Arabs who bordered the Ethiopians;
— 2 Chronicles 21:16

And all I am saying is God can take free will ability away from individuals (philistines and/or Arabs), who no longer need free will, because nothing more can be done for them, to accept God's charity as charity.

 

[bbbbbbb]

And all I am saying is God can take free will ability away from individuals (philistines and/or Arabs), who no longer need free will, because nothing more can be done for them, to accept God's charity as charity.

This reminds me of a close friend who, from time to time, says that she is losing her mind. I tell her that I don't have that problem. You can't lose what you never had.

 

[Hammster]

"Jerusalem" did not kill and stone the prophets, but the Children of Jerusalem did.
Jesus is saying he wants to protect and preserve (save) the Jewish people in Jerusalem (Jerusalem's children).
Who or what is keeping Jesus from saving the children of Jerusalem?

He doesn’t say. He’s saying that the Pharisees don’t what to do what He wants to do.

 

[Hammster]

And all I am saying is God can take free will ability away from individuals (philistines and/or Arabs), who no longer need free will, because nothing more can be done for them, to accept God's charity as charity.

At what age? This was a whole people group.

 

[bling]

This reminds me of a close friend who, from time to time, says that she is losing her mind. I tell her that I don't have that problem. You can't lose what you never had.

Do you think we are all mindless "robots"?

 

[bling]

He doesn’t say. He’s saying that the Pharisees don’t what to do what He wants to do.

Ae the Pharisees than not keeping Him from doing what He wants to do?

 

[bling]

At what age? This was a whole people group.

Leaders lead the people into doing bad stuff and God can totally control a leader who will not fulfill his original objective, but at what time the leaders reach the point of nothing more can be done to help them to repent is different for every person. The evil mental spirit can go out to a nation, but does not have to go out to every individual, since the leaders will be leading them.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Do you think we are all mindless "robots"?

In a very real sense, human intelligence, even at its very best, is limited. We are not even remotely as smart and clever as we would like to think we are.

 

[bling]

In a very real sense, human intelligence, even at its very best, is limited. We are not even remotely as smart and clever as we would like to think we are.

My little children did not know much at birth, but they were not robots.

 

[bbbbbbb]

My little children did not know much at birth, but they were not robots.

Neither was my cat.

 

[bling]

Neither was my cat.

I do not think your cat has free will but is strictly reacting instinctively and limited by its environment.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I do not think your cat has free will but is strictly reacting instinctively and limited by its environment.

Nevertheless, my cat is no more or less a robot than I am.