questions from a struggling RC

[Tamaraz]

Hi everyone! I'm hoping you can help me...I'm an adult convert to RC (6 years now!) and I love my faith. (I would respectfully ask that the discussion stay respectful to it, if thats ok)...I believe in the real presence, I adore the saints, I love the liturgy and all of the sacraments, and yes, I love my Pope...however Ive been exploring the orthodox faith - after discovering Saint Maria of Paris, and starting to read Ware's "The Orthodox Faith"...I'm also in a state of deep remorse re the current RC scandals and wondering if I need to change paths...so - my questions!

1) Can someone explain VERY simply how the west and eastern churches split (and I do mean simply lol - every article I start to read bores me within 30 seconds....)
2)As an eastern orthodox can one still believe the RC Church is a valid Church with real sacraments, and have a great respect for the Pope?
3)How does someone who is not russian/greek/lithuanian etc "choose" a church and become a member? What happens on a given Sunday when someone is nowhere near an eastern orthodox church?
4)I am a very hopeful universalist - is that acceptable?
5) Is there a "catechism" - Im finding trouble finding a statement of belief such as we have in the RC Church?

THANKS and blessings!

 

[Lost4words]

I can't comment on the Orthodox questions but I can say that through all the storms that the Catholic church have been through it is still here. This is evidence of the Holy Spirit at work. Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church.

I look at the church like an old stone building. Ok, the roof may have many slates missing, some doors are creaking, paintwork is coming off etc but the corner stone remains solid. It has been built on solid foundations. It has weathered many a storm yet still it stands.

It's easy to jump ship when things get tough. But, with Jesus at the helm the ship will always survive.

 

[“Paisios”]

Hi everyone! I'm hoping you can help me...I'm an adult convert to RC (6 years now!) and I love my faith. (I would respectfully ask that the discussion stay respectful to it, if thats ok)...I believe in the real presence, I adore the saints, I love the liturgy and all of the sacraments, and yes, I love my Pope...however Ive been exploring the orthodox faith - after discovering Saint Maria of Paris, and starting to read Ware's "The Orthodox Faith"...I'm also in a state of deep remorse re the current RC scandals and wondering if I need to change paths...so - my questions!

1) Can someone explain VERY simply how the west and eastern churches split (and I do mean simply lol - every article I start to read bores me within 30 seconds....)
2)As an eastern orthodox can one still believe the RC Church is a valid Church with real sacraments, and have a great respect for the Pope?
3)How does someone who is not russian/greek/lithuanian etc "choose" a church and become a member? What happens on a given Sunday when someone is nowhere near an eastern orthodox church?
4)I am a very hopeful universalist - is that acceptable?
5) Is there a "catechism" - Im finding trouble finding a statement of belief such as we have in the RC Church?

THANKS and blessings!

I am not well versed enough to answer your questions (I am just a catechumen myself), but want to welcome you to CF and The Ancient Way (as well as marking the spot since I think this thread will be of great interest to me, and I look forward to reading the replies).

I am sure that you will get many informative responses from the good folks here, and pray that you will receive clarity in your current questioning.

 

[Barney2.0]

There are many Popes respected and venerated as Saints in Orthodox tradition such as Pope Gregory the Great.

 

[Tamaraz]

Thanks for your welcome everybody - I do look forward to good discussion - Lost4words, I "get" what you are saying, and believe me I have thought of that - even before my despair re the scandals, however, Ive considered that both RC and EO churches are true Churches of God - I wonder if thats "ok" by the standards of the EO churches....and Im not saying Im jumping ship immediately or without thought, but I will acknowledge the level of depravity and cover up does have me thinking about finding different expression....anyway! Thats probably another thread....

 

[ArmyMatt]

1. we split because of Rome's insertion of the Filioque into the Creed and the claim that the Pope of Rome can do that by default because he is the Pope. Rome has added stuff since then.

2. great repect for the Pope? sure. I know plenty who personally revere John Paul II, Mother Teresa, Francis of Assisi, etc. validity of their sacraments isn't our call. we would say that since they are not in the Orthodox Church they are sacramentally lacking, but we do know that God is at work for their salvation too.

3. ideally, they are welcomed. I am not Russian or Greek, and I have always felt at home in an Orthodox Church.

4. yes. what you cannot do is insist on universalism, but one certainly can hope and pray for it.

5. officially, our catechism is the Liturgical life. so if you really wanna know what we believe, you gotta go to Church. that being said, there are various accepted catechisms that are around.

 

[Lost4words]

Thanks for your welcome everybody - I do look forward to good discussion - Lost4words, I "get" what you are saying, and believe me I have thought of that - even before my despair re the scandals, however, Ive considered that both RC and EO churches are true Churches of God - I wonder if thats "ok" by the standards of the EO churches....and Im not saying Im jumping ship immediately or without thought, but I will acknowledge the level of depravity and cover up does have me thinking about finding different expression....anyway! Thats probably another thread....

I agree with you.

 

[HTacianas]

Hi everyone! I'm hoping you can help me...I'm an adult convert to RC (6 years now!) and I love my faith. (I would respectfully ask that the discussion stay respectful to it, if thats ok)...I believe in the real presence, I adore the saints, I love the liturgy and all of the sacraments, and yes, I love my Pope...however Ive been exploring the orthodox faith - after discovering Saint Maria of Paris, and starting to read Ware's "The Orthodox Faith"...I'm also in a state of deep remorse re the current RC scandals and wondering if I need to change paths...so - my questions!

1) Can someone explain VERY simply how the west and eastern churches split (and I do mean simply lol - every article I start to read bores me within 30 seconds....)
2)As an eastern orthodox can one still believe the RC Church is a valid Church with real sacraments, and have a great respect for the Pope?
3)How does someone who is not russian/greek/lithuanian etc "choose" a church and become a member? What happens on a given Sunday when someone is nowhere near an eastern orthodox church?
4)I am a very hopeful universalist - is that acceptable?
5) Is there a "catechism" - Im finding trouble finding a statement of belief such as we have in the RC Church?

THANKS and blessings!

In short, if we can.

1) Can someone explain VERY simply how the west and eastern churches split (and I do mean simply lol - every article I start to read bores me within 30 seconds....)

That is a very, very long story, lasting nearly one thousand years. But the short story is that the Churches are in schism now over Papal Supremacy, that being the claim of Rome that the Pope is the single leader of Christianity on the earth.

After the final split,the Roman Church held several Synods of their own, calling them ecumenical Councils, such as Vatican I and Vatican II, and made certain doctrinal changes without the input of any of the Eastern Patriarchs. The Eastern Churches do not recognize any of the canons of those synods.

There are perhaps thousands of other nuances behind the schism that I haven't even touched on.

2)As an eastern orthodox can one still believe the RC Church is a valid Church with real sacraments, and have a great respect for the Pope?

While some individuals in the Eastern Churches may express the opinion that the Roman Church is apostate, that is not the belief of Orthodoxy. Patriarch Kiril of Moscow went so far as to say that even speaking poorly of Catholics is "a sin against Christ's commandment for Christian unity".

3)How does someone who is not russian/greek/lithuanian etc "choose" a church and become a member? What happens on a given Sunday when someone is nowhere near an eastern orthodox church?

It is sometimes difficult to find a Church if you are not "ethnic", i.e., Russian, Greek, etc., especially if the liturgy is conducted in their language. Please note that I do not use the terms "ethnic" or "their" to in any way demean my fellow Christians.

4)I am a very hopeful universalist - is that acceptable?

St. Origen was once posthumously excommunicated and declared a heretic due in part to his universalist teachings, among a few other things.

5) Is there a "catechism" - Im finding trouble finding a statement of belief such as we have in the RC Church?

There is no catechism in Orthodoxy that one can compare to the Roman catechism. But if you are looking for a statement of belief, the Confession of Dositheus was created by the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672 in response to the protestant reformation. It may be helpful to you.

Please note that nothing in it was created in 1672 to be anything new, it is merely a restatement of Orthodox beliefs in response to the reformation.

http://www.crivoice.org/creeddositheus.html

 

[Basil the Great]

I noticed a like thread on the Lutheran board. I have been wondering if the sex scandals might cause some Catholics to consider Orthodoxy or Lutheranism or possibly even the Anglican Church?

 

[Tamaraz]

Thanks SO much guys! This is already very helpful....the whole issue of the filioque is one Ive come across before, and for whatever reason (my own deficiency no doubt lol) I could never bring myself to "care" - I don't have a strong understanding/opinion on whether the Holy Spirit issued from the Father or after the Father and Son....its one of those things I'm happy to leave to mystery...

The issue of the Pope - when I became RC I accepted the infallible teaching (for faith and morals) but again, its not something that ever excited me....I love the current Pope and the last 2, and have a special love for John XXIII....

I think it would be very hard to choose to be a part of the orthodox churches when one doesn't speak any of the languages? Are there Orthodox services done in English?

Blessings!

 

[All4Christ]

Thanks SO much guys! This is already very helpful....the whole issue of the filioque is one Ive come across before, and for whatever reason (my own deficiency no doubt lol) I could never bring myself to "care" - I don't have a strong understanding/opinion on whether the Holy Spirit issued from the Father or after the Father and Son....its one of those things I'm happy to leave to mystery...

The issue of the Pope - when I became RC I accepted the infallible teaching (for faith and morals) but again, its not something that ever excited me....I love the current Pope and the last 2, and have a special love for John XXIII....

I think it would be very hard to choose to be a part of the orthodox churches when one doesn't speak any of the languages? Are there Orthodox services done in English?

Blessings!

Absolutely there are Orthodox services in English. Mine (Orthodox Church of America) is completely English. Many Antiochian ones are completely English. Many Greek ones have a good portion of English. I recommend the OCA or Antiochian churches, especially due to language and understanding of converts and Theo backgrounds. (That said, there are many converts in other jurisdictions as well. I just had an easier time with a fully English service and love my parish.)

 

[All4Christ]

I just noticed that you are in the UK. I’m not as familiar with those options, but I’m sure there is an option for English services.

 

[All4Christ]

I would verify this (I haven’t had time to review it closely, though I reviewed the first few links), but here is a list of English speaking Orthodox churches in England.

https://www.englishliturgy.org/Directory

 

[Tamaraz]

Allforchrist, can I PM you? And if so, how, lol?

 

[Tamaraz]

THANK YOU for that list in the UK! I am american, but live over the pond...

 

[All4Christ]

Allforchrist, can I PM you? And if so, how, lol?

Certainly! I’ll send you a PM to start it. Heading out the door, so it will likely be after work for me to respond, but always happy to talk

 

[All4Christ]

THANK YOU for that list in the UK! I am american, but live over the pond...

Happy to help

 

[hedrick]

It's worth remembering the historical situation associated with the split between East and West. There had always been differences in theological perspective. They operated in different languages with different traditions. But as long as there were regular meetings, they were usually able to negotiate a working relationship. The two major ancient doctrinal achievements, Nicea and Chalcedon, were both compromises.

As the empire broke down, communication became more difficult and contact more rare. At that point it's not surprising that misunderstanding and suspicion would become more common, and things that in better circumstances could have been negotiated turned into issues that divided them.

 

[Anhelyna]

Tamaraz - you have a PM from me - click on the little envelope that says INBOX

 

[ArmyMatt]

It's worth remembering the historical situation associated with the split between East and West. There had always been differences in theological perspective. They operated in different languages with different traditions. But as long as there were regular meetings, they were usually able to negotiate a working relationship. The two major ancient doctrinal achievements, Nicea and Chalcedon, were both compromises.

As the empire broke down, communication became more difficult and contact more rare. At that point it's not surprising that misunderstanding and suspicion would become more common, and things that in better circumstances could have been negotiated turned into issues that divided them.

East and West having a different perspective was tense, but was never a major problem until the West started contradicting the rest of the Church to include the West's own history.