Questions for Hindus

[bless_sins]

Salam (Peace),

I have a few questions for Hindus on this forum:

I understand that most organized religions promise a "Day of Judgment" or some form retribution that tells each and everyone of us, that we will be held accountable for our actions.

In Hinduism (correct me if I'm wrong), a person when he/she dies goes onto another life. This life is determined by the actions of the person in his/her previous life.
Therefore is this Hinduism's way of people bieng punished or rewarded for their actions in this life? If not, how does Hinduism, if at all, punish the sinners and reward the good ones? If you answered yes to the first question, is it a person's fault if they are born in a war torn and impoverished country?

My next questions are about the caste system. I understand that once the caste system existed in India. Now it is increasingly dissappearing.
Do you consider the caste system to be a central tennet to Hinduism? If so, why?
Do you think the caste system is justifiable, either in the past or present?
If the caste system was implemented outside of India, would that be a good thing?

Note: these are just questions, that are looking for answers not mud-slinging.

 

[monkey88]

I have a question too, well it's more about India but why do (what seems like) so many people in India not like Pakistan?

 

[polygone]

In Hinduism (correct me if I'm wrong), a person when he/she dies goes onto another life. This life is determined by the actions of the person in his/her previous life. Therefore is this Hinduism's way of people bieng punished or rewarded for their actions in this life? If not, how does Hinduism, if at all, punish the sinners and reward the good ones? If you answered yes to the first question, is it a person's fault if they are born in a war torn and impoverished country?

Yes, according to the Karma Theory, your actions in this life, determine to an extent of what may happen to you in the future. But there is no good or bad Karma. It's more like "you reap what you sow". Think of Karma as an eternal storage unit, where good deeds and bad deeds sum up and cancel each other partially. No in the next life, the net "Karmic content" determines what MAY happen to you. The answer to the second question would be "yes, likely" according to the Karma Theory.

Of course, you can simply skip the Karma Theory from a higher perspective, and simply follow the rules layed down by Dharma. Then there would by no "good" or "bad".

My next questions are about the caste system. I understand that once the caste system existed in India. Now it is increasingly dissappearing. Do you consider the caste system to be a central tennet to Hinduism? If so, why? Do you think the caste system is justifiable, either in the past or present? If the caste system was implemented outside of India, would that be a good thing?

Well, the Caste System was put in place to broadly classify the "professions", if you will, in the past. Spiritual/Philosophical people, who read the Vedas and taught others were called Brahmins (something like our scientists, philosophers and teachers of today). People who were skilled in warfare and who protected the "country" were called Kshatriyas (something like our Military of today). People who took up economics and trade were called Vaishyas (like Businessmen of today). And people who did cleaning work, like sweapers and garbage collectors were called Shudras. Earlier, any person was free to choose his/her own caste (just like profession these days). So, the Caste system was justifiable in the past.

But over the ages, the Caste System got transformed to something that was fixed from birth onwards, perhaps due to misinterpretation of the scriptures and stuff, and Shudras began to be ill-treated. So, at this point, the Caste System was out-of-line and not justifiable.

Well, the original spirit of the caste system was not to create a social inequality, but instead to broadly classify people based on their profession. So, that idea is absolutely fine. But the current form of the Caste System is something that I totally condemn. And I don't think there would be much sense in creating a Caste System outside India (seeing what has happened in India).

 

[arunma]

I have a question too, well it's more about India but why do (what seems like) so many people in India not like Pakistan?

We don't like Pakistan because at the time when India gained independence, many Muslims isolated themselves from the rest of our nation, and created an Islamic state. We Indians would have been happy to accomodate all religions in our nation, but they insisted on separating themselves from us. Wouldn't you be a bit upset about this?

 

[polygone]

I have a question too, well it's more about India but why do (what seems like) so many people in India not like Pakistan?

Apart from what arunma said, Pakistan is the source/hub of terrorism around the world. It's an open fact that Pakistan harbours, trains and funds LeT and such terrorist groups.

While Indians have know this for a long time, the western world is slowly realizing, especially England after the recent blasts. I guess a lot of Americans are slowly realizing this as well but the Bush administration, and it's stupid leader are yet to "get it" and probably won't till their support for Pakistan turns around and bites them in the ass !

 

[arunma]

Apart from what arunma said, Pakistan is the source/hub of terrorism around the world. It's an open fact that Pakistan harbours, trains and funds LeT and such terrorist groups.

While Indians have know this for a long time, the western world is slowly realizing, especially England after the recent blasts. I guess a lot of Americans are slowly realizing this as well but the Bush administration, and it's stupid leader are yet to "get it" and probably won't till their support for Pakistan turns around and bites them in the ass !

I honestly don't think that President Musharraf supports terrorism. It seems more likely to me that Pakistani Muslims commit acts of terrorism in spite of the government's intervention. Unfortunately, Muslim terrorists do not recognize the validity of earthly governments. It's times like these that make me understand why the Apostles of Christ taught us to obey non-Christian governing bodies.

 

[polygone]

Terrorists->ISI->Pakistan Government->Musharraf!!! Simple link!

 

[arunma]

If you say so, Polygone. I, personally, haven't seen evidence either way. All I know is that President Musharraf is somewhat cooperative with the American government in regards to terrorism.

 

[polygone]

He better be, otherwise America would immediately stop all correspondences with Pakistan, and that's something Musharraf doesn't want. Besides, intelligence reports have revealed that the ISI is training Jihadi terrorists in Balochistan, giving them arms and ammunition training. Hell, they're even secretly ferrying muslims to and fro from India!

How would Pakistan get it's funding for weapons and military equipment, nuclear technology and resources, (and funds to train terrorists) if America would stop interacting with them?

 

[arunma]

If what you say about the ISI and terrorist training is true, then I admit that you have a good point.

 

[sanaa]

lets not forget mussharaf was responsible for the kargil war and the coup which overthrew the democratic government in pakistan .

 

[indianx]

I will say this, the general Indian public likes the general Pakistani public and vice-versa. We may not like the terrorist activities, but we like the people.

 

[sefroth77]

Salam (Peace),

I have a few questions for Hindus on this forum:

I understand that most organized religions promise a "Day of Judgment" or some form retribution that tells each and everyone of us, that we will be held accountable for our actions.

In Hinduism (correct me if I'm wrong), a person when he/she dies goes onto another life. This life is determined by the actions of the person in his/her previous life.
Therefore is this Hinduism's way of people bieng punished or rewarded for their actions in this life? If not, how does Hinduism, if at all, punish the sinners and reward the good ones? If you answered yes to the first question, is it a person's fault if they are born in a war torn and impoverished country?

There are three gates leading to this hell — lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul.(Bhagavad Gita 16.21)

Whatever action is done theres always a opposite reaction. The Law of Karma involve all Humans. The Reactions will come either in this birth or the next. The Hellish planets are for grave sinners who are always involve in Lust,Anger and greed these people don't deserve to be humans at all.

In Sanatana Dharma(hindusim) Its the person's own negative karmic influnce which enables the person to take birth in a war-torn country and suffer the reactions for whatever actions he would have done in his previous birth. If a person is born into a rich country and lead a comfortable life is because of his goodness in his previous birth. Be it Good Karma or Bad Karma, all these make for bondage and is difficult to achieve liberation.

The person should blame himself for taking birth in a war-torn country, God is not to be blame or any others, God is Fair. You suffer for your own actions. A Learned person once knowing his situation should strive to be a better person and achieve Positive Karma so that he gets at least a better birth. But in reality by Suffering in a war-torn country you are actually removing your negative Karmic energies.

My next questions are about the caste system. I understand that once the caste system existed in India. Now it is increasingly dissappearing.
Do you consider the caste system to be a central tennet to Hinduism? If so, why?

Do you think the caste system is justifiable, either in the past or present?
If the caste system was implemented outside of India, would that be a good thing?

Caste, correct name is Varna Based System. The perfect system of Governance.



Brahmin :Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness — these are the natural qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work. (Bhagavad Gita 18.42)



The Brahmins who possess these qualities should be Advisers, Teachers.



Kṣatriyas :Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the natural qualities of work for the kṣatriyas.(Bhagavad Gita 18.43)



The Ksatriyas who posses these qualities should be Rulers, Warriors and should get advice from the Brahmins on how to govern a society.



Vaisyas and Sudras : Farming, cow protection and business are the natural work for the vaiśyas, and for the śūdras there is labor and service to others. (Bhagavad Gita 18.44)



Vaisyas are supposed to provide Food and Clothing to the entire Society. They are also traders, Merchants etc. While the Sudras provide Manual Labor for the Vaisyas like working the farm, Helping the Ksatriyas in devoloping weapons and providing the Brahmins with the neccessary service.



All four Varna Divisons should have a Common Goal.



All four division should have a common goal, and that goal is offering its fruits from their respective service to God, instead of gaining it for themselves. So when a Sudra works on a farm, he should have a conscious of doing it for God rather then doing it for himself. A Vaisyas should have a Concious that "I'm building this Farm for God and not for my personal Gain". A Ksatriya should Fight for God, so in this aspect he should make sure that No Women,Children,Old and the sick be killed. Finally a Brahmin should educated the Society and offering its fruits to God instead for himself.



When there is a Common Goal, like God Conciouss then only the Society will be peaceful and Stable.


A Common Goal where everyone should work for God(Krishna) instead of themselves.




The excerpt is part of a transcript of a conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Professor Grigoriy Kotovsky,(then)head of the India Department at the U.S.S.R. Academy of Sciences and chairman of the Indian studies department at the University of Moscow.The conversation took place in 1971 in the U.S.S.R



Prof. Kotovsky: But by creating brahmanas from different social classes of society, you deny the old prescription of the Hindu scriptures.


Srila Prabhupada: No, I establish it.


Prof. Kotovsky: According to all scriptures--the Puranas, etc.--every member of one of these four classes of varnas has to be born within it.


Srila Prabhupada: No, no, no, no.


Prof. Kotovsky: That is the foundation of all the varnas...


Srila Prabhupada: No, no. I am sorry.


Prof. Kotovsky: The foundation of all the varnas...


Srila Prabhupada: You have spoken incorrectly. With great respect I beg to submit that you are not speaking correctly. In the Bhagavad-gita (4.13) it is stated, catur-varnyam maya-srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah. "These four orders of brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, and sudras were created by Me according to quality and work." There is no mention of birth.


Prof. Kotovsky: I agree with you that this is the addition of later brahmanas who tried to perpetuate these qualities.


Srila Prabhupada: That has killed the Indian culture. Otherwise there would have been no necessity of the division of part of India into Pakistan. Not only that, but from the historical point of view this whole planet was Bharata-varsa, and it was controlled by one flag up to the time of Maharaja Pariksit. Then it gradually separated. This is history. Lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bharata-varsa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise, according to Vedic scripture, this whole planet is called Bharata-varsa. Formerly it was named Ilavrta-varsa. But since Emperor Bharata ruled this planet, it is called Bharata-varsa. So this culture, Krsna consciousness, was always existent. Consider any religion--Christian, Muhammadan, Jewish. They are at most two to three thousand years old. But you cannot trace out the beginning of this Vedic scripture. It is therefore called sanatana, eternal. This culture is for this whole human society. It is not a religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change. Try to understand Krsna. In the Bhagavad-gita (18.66) He says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: "Give up all other forms of religion and just surrender to Me." That is real knowledge--to surrender to the Supreme. You or I--anyone--is surrendered to someone. That is a fact. Our life is by surrender, is it not? Do you disagree with this point?


Prof. Kotovsky: To some extent you surrender.


Srila Prabhupada: Yes, to the full extent.


Prof. Kotovsky: You have to surrender to the society, for instance. To the whole people.


Srila Prabhupada: Yes, to the whole people, or to the state or to the king or the government or whatever you say. This surrender must be there.("Spiritual Communism")

So you can see that according to the Bhagavad Gita, the four orders of brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, and sudras were originally created by Krishna according to quality (guna) and work (karma), not by mere station of birth.

I think it would not be inaccurate to say that the caste system, as in the four orders of brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, and sudras exist in virtually all societies. In every society, there is an elite group of intellectual people like professors, politicians and the clergy. These people would constitute the brahmana order. Then there would be the military men responsible for defending the country. These people would constitute the order of the ksatriyas. Then there would be the commercial traders in charge of the economic welfare of the country ---the vaisyas.Then there are the workers who do the manual labour necessary to maintain the assets of the society like various infrastructure. The Brahmana can be compared to the brain of the society, the Kshatriya its arms, the Vaisyas its stomach and the Sudra its feet. It is quite evident that these four orders are present in virtually all societies.

In the past, the caste system was abused. description of the process of this abuse as follows:

The upper classes gradually neglected their duties. The test of ability and character slowly disappeared. Birth became the chief consideration in determining caste. All the castes fell from their ideals and forgot all about their duties. The Brahmins became selfish and claimed superiority over others by mere birth, without possessing the necessary qualities. The Kshatriyas lost their chivalry and spirit of sacrifice. The Vaishyas became avaricious and greedy. They did not earn their wealth by honest means. They did not look after the economic welfare of the people. They did not do charity. They also lose the spirit of sacrifice. The Sudras gave up service. They became officers. They wished that others should serve them. The greed and pride of man created discord and disharmony.E(Kingly Science Kingly Secret by Swami Sivananda, Chapter 6: The Caste System)

As I understand it, the caste system, i.e. the four orders of intellectuals, warriors, merchants and labourers are a very natural division of the classes of people found in virtually every society. But due to abuse, discord and disharmony crept into the caste system of India. Maybe with education, more and more people will eventually understand the real meaning of the caste system and the abuses, discord and harmony will be avoided.



So the Caste-System in its original form is justifiable. At Present its Not, the entire system is corrupted.

 

[indianx]

In Sanatana Dharma(hindusim) Its the person's own negative karmic influnce which enables the person to take birth in a war-torn country and suffer the reactions for whatever actions he would have done in his previous birth. If a person is born into a rich country and lead a comfortable life is because of his goodness in his previous birth. Be it Good Karma or Bad Karma, all these make for bondage and is difficult to achieve liberation.

The person should blame himself for taking birth in a war-torn country, God is not to be blame or any others, God is Fair. You suffer for your own actions. A Learned person once knowing his situation should strive to be a better person and achieve Positive Karma so that he gets at least a better birth. But in reality by Suffering in a war-torn country you are actually removing your negative Karmic energies.

When you use those words, you make it seem or rather you allow some of the people here to miscontrue the actual meaning and incorrectly say things like there is an elitist/'pro-rich' attitude here, which is clearly not the case.

I say this, because I have seen these people use this as propaganda too many times in the internet and in real life.

 

[arunma]

I will say this, the general Indian public likes the general Pakistani public and vice-versa. We may not like the terrorist activities, but we like the people.

I don't have anything against the Pakistani people. I do strongly dislike their theocracy, their military activities, their support for terrorism (which, as Polygone claims, could even include Musharraf), and the oppressive Islamic environment that they have created.

Furthermore, I dislike the very notion of creating an Islamic state on Indian land. Imagine the outcry if French Muslims decided to move into a single province, and secede from the nation. In philosophy, this scenario also describes Pakistan. The entire land has historically belonged to India, and I do not think that was right for the Muslim population to separate itself from India and create a theocracy.

lets not forget mussharaf was responsible for the kargil war and the coup which overthrew the democratic government in pakistan.

Well, that was perhaps one of his smarter moves.

 

[sanaa]

Well, that was perhaps one of his smarter moves.

what , the kargil war or the coup?

2500th post!

 

[arunma]

The coup.

 

[bless_sins]

Salam (Peace),

The re-incarnation thing is clear (or atleast clearer) to me now.

AS for the caste system:
You guys have said that the caste system would be applied by choice, not by birth.
A question: who would choose who should be in a caste? Say everyone wanted to be a brahmin - who would divide people into their respective casts?

ANother question: today, most societies divide themselves into a clergy/politcian class, military class etc.....how is that different from the ideal Hindu system?

Could you also explain where the concept of "untouchables" cam from?

 

[bless_sins]

Salam (Peace),

In philosophy, this scenario also describes Pakistan. The entire land has historically belonged to India, and I do not think that was right for the Muslim population to separate itself from India and create a theocracy.

Historically, most of Europe once belonged to the "Roman" Empire, based in modern day Italy. Yet the French, Spnaish, Greeks, Syrians etc. all seperated themselves from it and created their own seperate countries.

Historically, the Soviet Union belonged to, well, the Soviets. YEt Ukraine, Belorussia, Kazakhstan and other countries have seperated themselves from the Soviet Union to create their own countries.

 

[arunma]

Historically, most of Europe once belonged to the "Roman" Empire, based in modern day Italy. Yet the French, Spnaish, Greeks, Syrians etc. all seperated themselves from it and created their own seperate countries.

Indeed you are correct. And how did Europe benefit from separating itself along artificial boundaries? They received such wonderful things as civil war, violent revolutions, Communism, and Nazism. Likewise, the separation of Pakistan from India has only given us the threat of war.