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Bible2

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Rick Otto said in post 18:

Via, you don't have to go to those people your glad not to be one of, to find the lost tribes theory.

There are no lost tribes, insofar as the 10 northern tribes weren't entirely lost to history. In 722 BC, the northern kingdom of Israel fell and its individuals were taken into captivity into Assyria (2 Kings 18:11), never to return to the land of Israel. They and their descendants were lost to history. But the 10 northern tribes in themselves weren't lost to history.

For some 200 years before the captivity of the northern kingdom, when it first become idolatrous, some individuals from all 10 of the northern tribes left the northern kingdom to become part of the southern kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles 11:16-17), and so by definition they all became Jews. Also, some individuals from the 10 northern tribes remained in the land of Israel even after its defeat by Assyria, and some of them went to Judah at the time of Hezekiah (2 Chronicles 30). It is for these reasons that later the Jews who returned from the Babylonian Captivity could be referred to as "all Israel" (Ezra 2:70, Ezra 6:17, Ezra 8:25,35, Ezra 10:5, Nehemiah 7:73, Nehemiah 12:47), and why the Jews living in the 1st century AD could be referred to as including all 12 tribes (Acts 26:7, James 1:1, Acts 2:36,22), and why at that time Anna could be said to be of the northern tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), one of the so-called "lost" tribes.

So the people alive today who are descended genetically from a 1st century AD Jew would include individuals from all 12 tribes. Some of these descendants could know that they are Jews because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years kept their Jewish identity and didn't intermarry with Gentiles. But others of these descendants could know themselves only as Gentiles because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years eventually abandoned their Jewish identity and intermarried freely with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today are almost entirely Gentile genetically. Similarly, regarding the individuals of the northern kingdom of Israel who were lost to history at its captivity: over the past 2,700 years, their descendants must have eventually abandoned their Israelite identity and freely intermarried with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today would know themselves only as Gentiles, and would be almost entirely Gentile genetically.

Also, while God knows which people alive today are descended from one of the 12 sons of Jacob/Israel from whom the 12 genetic tribes arose (Genesis 49:28), nonelect Israelites/Jews aren't considered by God to be truly Israel (Romans 9:6-11) or truly Jews (Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9), or God's children or Abraham's children, but the children of the devil (John 8:39-47), just as all the nonelect, no matter whether they are Jews or Gentiles, are considered by God to be the children of the devil (Matthew 13:38-39).

Some genetic Israelites are believers, and so are members of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6) and Israel at the same time, just as, for example, the genetic Jew Paul the apostle (Acts 22:3) is a member of the church and Israel at the same time (Romans 11:1). And some still-living, non-believing genetic Israelites are still considered by God to be Israel insofar as they are elect (Romans 11:25,28). All the still-living, elect, non-believing genetic Israelites who don't become believers before Jesus' 2nd coming will become believers (and so will become members of the church: cf. Ephesians 4:4-6) at the 2nd coming (Romans 11:26), when they will see the returned Jesus in person (Zechariah 12:10-14). But even though all those still-living, elect, genetic Israelites will eventually become believers and be saved, they will be only a remnant of all genetic Israelites (Romans 9:27), most of whom will never be saved, just as most of humanity in general, both Jews and Gentiles, will never be saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).

Also, the 12 tribes of Israel aren't countries or regions (as is sometimes claimed), but consist of individuals who can be living in any country or region. Otherwise, one's tribe would change whenever one moved from one country or region to another. Also, nothing requires that any of the nominally-Christian nations are descended from any of the ancient 12 tribes of Israel, instead of them all simply being Gentile nations. For Christians come from every nation on the earth (Revelation 5:9b), and only a remnant of genetic Israel gets saved (Romans 9:27), just as only a remnant of humanity as a whole gets saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14). Also, the entire church throughout the world is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12).
 
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Rick Otto

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Quite a mash-up you got goin' on, imho.
Not only do you have ritual requirements for salvation, you have "initial" and "ultimate" salvation. "Divide and conquer" works on languages, too.

So the 10 tribes were lost to history, but not to themselves...
Unsubscribing, thanks.
 
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Rick Otto said in post 22:

Not only do you have ritual requirements for salvation, you have "initial" and "ultimate" salvation.

Note that the ideas of initial salvation and ultimate salvation don't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "initial salvation" and "ultimate salvation" in order for them to be true and supported by scripture, just as, for example, the ideas of the unity of God and the Trinity don't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the unity" and "the Trinity" in order for them to be true and supported by scripture (e.g. John 10:30, John 1:1,14, Isaiah 45:5, Matthew 28:19, Acts 5:3-4).

In the Bible itself, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is by grace through faith without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). But other passages show that initially saved people must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law) if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For believers must actually continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that believers will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Also, in the Bible itself, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is the salvation which Christians have now (Ephesians 2:5) in their mortal bodies, while ultimate salvation is that salvation which is ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:5), and is always drawing nearer (Romans 13:11), that salvation which Christians are still hoping for (1 Thessalonians 5:8, Romans 8:23-25, Mark 10:30), and which Jesus will bring to obedient Christians at his 2nd coming (Hebrews 9:28, Hebrews 5:9), when he will resurrect (if dead) or change (if alive) their mortal physical bodies into immortal physical bodies just like the immortal physical body which Jesus obtained at his resurrection on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:11-14).
 
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ThomasGuthler

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John 20:23 "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."

Where the disciples able to forgive sins, like the Sacrament of Penance & Reconciliation?

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1 Corinthians 6:3 "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life.

This (judging of angels) relates to the time of the New Earth?

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Quote: "Obeying the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself isn't of faith (Galatians 3:12)"

What´s the difference between "obeying the OCML" and saving faith during the Old Covenant?

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Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

How do you come out of Babylon (according to your definition of Babylon in Blog *Rev. 17-18)?

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How do you become an apostel today, and for what purpose is this gift?

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*Ezekiel 47:12 / *Ezek. 47:12

and

"Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 refer to a future, literal, earthly temple building, just as Ezekiel 45:1-8, and Ezekiel 47:13 through Ezekiel 48:35, refer to how the literal, earthly land of Israel will be apportioned for this temple, its priests, a secular city, and the prince and tribes of Israel."

refer to the time of the Millennium?

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Only some people who received Holy Spirit Baptism are able to baptise others with the Holy Spirit? How do you know you can baptise others in the Holy Spirit?
 
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Bible2+

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ThomasGuthler said in post 24:

Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

How do you come out of Babylon (according to your definition of Babylon in Blog [*Rev. chs. 17-18])?

You would have to flee from all cities, all areas with civilization. I.e., flee into the wilderness (cf. Revelation 12:6,14).

For Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3); as well as throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the nations (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number six in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break all our chains of attachment to this vile physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [cf. Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat the world's armies, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the 1,000 years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

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Someone might ask: "But isn't Babylon only the U.S.?"

While the corrupt aspects of the U.S. are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents, it represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of the U.S. For the U.S. just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor is the U.S. the only place where people buy merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor is the U.S. the place where all martyrs have been killed (Revelation 18:24). Nor has the U.S. just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor has the U.S. been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

Nonetheless, the corrupt world-system represented by Revelation's "Babylon" may currently be headquartered in Washington DC and New York City, insofar as Washington DC may currently be "the crowning city" (cf. Isaiah 23:8) of mankind's corrupt politics, the first leg of Revelation's "Babylon" (Revelation 17:18). And New York City may currently be "the crowning city" of mankind's corrupt economics, the 2nd leg of Revelation's "Babylon" (Revelation 18:11). "The crowning city" of mankind's corrupt religions, the 3rd leg of Revelation's "Babylon" (Revelation 18:24), may currently be Jerusalem, as it was back in the 1st century AD (Matthew 23:35-38). Ultimately, all 3 legs of Revelation's "Babylon" will become headquartered in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq), which the Antichrist, during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), will make the capital of the world, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Tyre was "the crowning city" of mankind's corrupt economics at one point in ancient times (Isaiah 23:8). God allowed the destruction of ancient Tyre as a lesson, an example, "to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth" (Isaiah 23:9). In the same way, would God allow the future destruction of Washington DC and New York City by terrorist nuclear bombs, as a lesson, an example, "to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth"?

Also, the Bible teaches that, without repentance, what is sown is reaped (Galatians 6:7). And 2 nuclear bombs (developed in the "Manhattan" Project) were sown by the U.S. against 2 major cities in Japan (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) in order to terrorize Japan into surrender during World War II. So could the U.S. in the future reap 2 terrorist nuclear bombs against 2 of its own major cities (including Manhattan)? Could the U.S. avoid this fate by publicly repenting before God and asking him and Japan for forgiveness for the U.S. intentionally targeting and murdering 150,000 innocent civilian men, women, and children living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Could the 9/11 terrorists being allowed by God to intentionally target and murder 3,000 innocent civilian men, women, and children in New York City's Twin Towers and elsewhere in the U.S. have been just a warning to the U.S., a mere shot across its bow, to try to get the U.S. to repent for what it did to the 2 cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? But could the U.S. continue to refuse to repent for its nuclear terrorism against Japan, leaving the way open for nuclear terrorism against the U.S.?

Also, a "restrainer" must be taken out of the way before the Antichrist can come into worldwide power (2 Thessalonians 2:6-9, Revelation 13:4-18). This restrainer could be a powerful angel like the one who will restrain Satan at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 20:1-3). It could be Michael the archangel, the angelic prince over Israel (Daniel 12:1, Daniel 10:21,13). Michael could also currently be the angelic prince over the U.S., making sure that it supports Israel. Part of Michael's being taken out of the way, just enough to allow the Antichrist to come into worldwide power, could be God removing Michael's protection of the U.S. just enough to allow Washington DC and New York City to be nuked by terrorists. This could weaken the U.S. not only by the destruction of its political and economic capitals, but also by the subsequent run on the U.S. dollar which could occur, rendering it close to worthless in world markets. The U.S. government could then finally go bankrupt, unable to finance any longer its huge debt, economy, and military. Its days as a superpower (but not as a nation) will be over, opening the way for the Antichrist to come into worldwide power (Revelation 13:4-18).

If Washington DC and New York City are attacked with nuclear bombs, will this really be the work of terrorists, such as Islamic jihadis? Or could it be a "false flag" operation, one presented to the world as an Islamic-jihadi attack, when in fact it will have been carefully stage-managed from behind the scenes by a powerful cabal, a worldwide secret society of Gnostic Luciferians, as part of their careful, step-by-step plan to prepare the way for the Antichrist (who is a Gnostic Luciferian: 1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4) to take over the world?

For example, could the Gnostic Luciferian cabal secretly equip some Islamic-jihadi group in Pakistan with 2 nukes and the means to get them into the U.S. and detonate them in New York City and Washington DC? For example, could the 2 nukes be secretly built in North Korea, secretly sold to Iran, secretly delivered to Iran via a plane crossing China, secretly handed off by Iran to the cabal's Islamic-jihadi group in Pakistan, secretly boated over to Thailand, and then secretly brought into the U.S. via 2 shipping containers from Thailand into the Port Newark, New Jersey Container Terminal? And could the 2 shipping containers have been lined with enough lead so as to thwart any radiation-detectors at the Terminal? And could these shipping containers have been filled mostly with tile, kitty litter, or bananas, which give off a natural radiation, so that if the containers are opened and inspected by hand for radiation, it will be thought that the radiation is just from the tile, kitty litter, or bananas, and not from nuclear bombs packed inside lead sarcophagi hidden in the center of the containers?

Could both containers in this way get past U.S. inspection? (And could the Gnostic Luciferian cabal also be careful to have its own "moles" or hand-picked and extremely-well bribed and blackmailed inspectors on duty when the containers are passing through U.S. inspection, to make sure that the containers don't get scanned by x-rays, or if they do, that any automatic alarms are disabled and that no other inspectors are present?) And after passing inspection, could one of the containers be trucked to a Newark warehouse, where the nuke will be extracted and placed into a smaller, lead-lined, tile-filled delivery truck, which will then be driven into the very heart of Manhattan, where the nuke will be detonated at a pre-arranged time? And could the other container be trucked to an Alexandria, Virginia warehouse, where the nuke will be extracted and placed into a large SUV? Could the SUV then be driven to a small, local airport in northwestern Maryland, where the nuke will be loaded in the dead of night onto a private jet? Could the jet's transponder be disabled, and the jet be flown low, under radar, down the Potomac, into the very heart of Washington DC, where the nuke will be detonated at the same time as the one in Manhattan?

(And even besides this, could a 3rd, nuke-containing shipping container from Thailand end up in a vast shipping-container lot in the Port of Long Beach, California, right next to Los Angeles? And could the Gnostic Luciferian cabal not even bother to have the nuke extracted and driven into or flown over downtown Los Angeles, but simply have the nuke detonated right there in Long Beach harbor (at the same time as the one in Manhattan), so that it completely destroys the major west coast port of the U.S., and wipes out much of hugely-populated Los Angeles and Orange Counties? And could the Gnostic Luciferian cabal's puppet-"Islamic terrorists" claim that they nuked Los Angeles because it contains Hollywood, and contains the San Fernando Valley, a center for inappropriate contentographic video production, so that Los Angeles has contributed greatly to the corrupt entertainment culture which dominates the world today, even in Islamic countries behind closed doors?)

Regarding Jerusalem getting destroyed, at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will attack and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including a 3rd Jewish temple (which will be built) and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) being completely broken down so that not one stone will be left upon another throughout the city (Luke 19:44). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem in righteousness and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4), during his literal, 1,000-year physical reign on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

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Regarding the scenario above about DC being nuked, someone might ask: "Wouldn't the Army radar blimps near Baltimore detect any low-flying plane headed toward DC?"

Yes, unless the Gnostic Luciferian cabal disables the blimps by ramming them with different planes, or by severing their data cords, right before the nuke-carrying plane heads down the Potomac. So the blimps (aerostats) need to be protected from attacks or sabotage.

Also, recently a gyrocopter was able to fly low from Gettysburg airport to the Capitol lawn in DC. Even though it was detected, it was not seen as a threat or intercepted because of its lack of a transponder and its slow speed. So this is a loophole which needs to be closed, so that something like this never happens again.

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Someone might ask: "Besides the blimps, couldn't the Army stretch very tall, steel-cable meshes across the Potomac at intervals so that any low-flying threat would crash into them and be destroyed before it reaches DC? Or the threat would have to fly over the tall meshes, so that it would appear on ground-based radar?"

Yes, unless the threat is able to simply fly around the meshes while remaining low. Also, if the threat flies over the meshes, any appearance on ground-based radar would be only momentary before the threat dives back down. And this only-momentary appearance could be mistakenly dismissed by radar operators and algorithms as just a glitch in the radar.

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Someone might ask: "Besides the blimps and meshes, couldn't the Army anchor radar barges in the Potomac at intervals to detect any low-flying threat headed down the Potomac?"

Yes, unless the Gnostic Luciferian cabal sends frog men or teams on boats to disable the barge radars, right before the nuke-carrying plane heads down the Potomac. So the barges will need to be protected from attacks or sabotage.

ThomasGuthler said in post 24:

Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

How do you come out of Babylon (according to your definition of Babylon in Blog [*Rev. chs. 17-18])?

Regarding the answer given above, someone might ask: "But how are you supposed to survive in the wilderness?"

By preparing beforehand a fully-stocked hideout there.

Isaiah 26:20-21 can be addressing those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at the time of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16), the final stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. These believers will still be waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). And they won't be appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9). So Isaiah 26:20 can refer to them going into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth, just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7).

Also, nothing forbids believers from preparing these chambers now, and hiding in them out in the wilderness at some point in our future (Revelation 12:6a), not only during the time of the 7 vials, but also during the just-preceding, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6b) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18). For his reign will involve the wrath of Satan coming against those in the church (not in hiding) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

One way for believers to prepare these chambers would be for them to bury old shipping containers. Shipping and trucking companies could have such shipping containers stacked up in their back lots ready to sell cheap to anyone who will take them off their hands.

Once you have one or more shipping containers at your wilderness site, you can rent a bulldozer for a few days and dig big trenches in which to bury them. The trenches need to be deep enough so that you can pile 6 feet of dirt on top of the containers. For that much dirt is required to stop radiation from any nuclear fallout from reaching the containers. Also, 6 feet of dirt will serve as great insulation, so that no matter how hot or cold it gets on the surface, the shipping containers will always remain at a pleasant 68 degrees Fahrenheit (20 degrees Celsius).

Once you have put the shipping containers in their trenches, you can cut a manhole in the center of the top of each container, and then cut two smaller, 6-inch ventilation holes in the top of each end of each container. Then you can attach to each manhole a 7-foot-long vertical PVC pipe with the same diameter as the manhole, and attach to each ventilation hole a 7-foot-long vertical PVC pipe with the same diameter as the ventilation hole. Then you can use the bulldozer to carefully bury the containers, without breaking off the vertical pipes.

Then you can place a 14-foot ladder down the manhole pipe of each container. And you can go down into each container and place a small, battery-powered fan inside one of its ventilation holes, to be turned on whenever fresh air is needed in the container. Your containers will then be all set to start stocking with canned food, water, bedding, batteries, and all other needed supplies whenever you want to do that. You will then need to secure the top of each manhole-pipe with some sort of thick PVC, perhaps screw-on, cover which can be locked from both the outside when you are away from the container, and from the inside when you are in the container. To keep any radioactive dust or ash from entering very far into the ventilation pipes, you can place a cylindrical air filter near the top of each pipe. And to keep rain, insects, and small animals from entering the pipes and affecting the filters, you can place a nylon screen and side-vented plastic cap over the top of each pipe. Another thing to worry about is floodwater pouring into the pipes. So your wilderness site shouldn't be in a floodplain, but on high-enough ground where it won't be flooded.

Because one of the reasons to go underground is to be hidden out of sight of hostile people during the Antichrist's worldwide reign, you will want to restore the surface of the ground above the buried containers so that, as much as possible, it appears like it did before you began digging. The tops of the manhole and ventilation pipes of each container will need to be camouflaged with brush, so that any hostile people passing by won't notice them. Also, in case some hostile people with dogs happen to pass by while you are hiding inside a container, you will need to place some long-dead (non-smelling) carcass of a small animal near enough to each ventilation pipe so that if the dogs pick up your scent emanating from a ventilation pipe, the hostile people with the dogs will think that their dogs are just interested in the carcass of the animal, and won't start rummaging through the brush and discover the ventilation pipe.

Besides camouflaging your underground hideout so that no hostile people will even notice it during the Antichrist's worldwide reign (in the tribulation's 2nd half), before the tribulation even begins and you are still thinking about where in the wilderness to prepare your hideout, you will need to be very circumspect about who you tell about your plans. You will want to tell only those people who are completely committed to joining you in hiding in your containers during the Antichrist's worldwide reign. For if you get any other people involved in knowing before the Antichrist's worldwide reign where your hideout is located, during the Antichrist's worldwide reign those same people could be captured by the Antichrist's police or soldiers and under torture or interrogation drugs tell them the location of your hideout. Or those same people, even if they are not captured, could start to get very hungry during the Antichrist's worldwide reign, and so could decide to go out to your hideout and demand to be fed with your supplies, even though you didn't store up enough for them, because before the tribulation they had said that they definitely weren't going to join you in your hideout.

Another thing to remember is that even before the Antichrist's worldwide reign, even when communicating with those who are completely committed to joining you in your hideout during the Antichrist's worldwide reign, you must never refer to the location of your hideout over the internet or over a cell phone, smartphone, or landline phone, or even in your car or home, or in any (e.g.) workplace, supermarket, or restaurant equipped with surveillance cameras and microphones, as all of these could currently be tapped and recorded by intelligence or law enforcement agencies, and their surveillance records could later be searched by the Antichrist's police or soldiers to determine the location of your hideout. For the same reason, you mustn't have any device with a GPS chip (such as a cell phone, smartphone, tablet computer, laptop computer, OnStar, LoJack, Garmin, TomTom, etc.) with you when you are out at your hideout, as the GPS chip could be secretly pinged remotely in order to determine your hideout's location. You will also need to have your car, shoes, clothing, and all supplies intended for your hideout electronically swept for any GPS chips covertly placed in them by intelligence or law enforcement agencies.

More generally, during the tribulation, as now, whenever you want to keep your cell phone or smartphone with you, but at the same time want to avoid having your movements tracked through it, wrap it in a small towel like a wash cloth, or place it in a small box like a cigar box, and then wrap the towel or box completely with aluminum foil, so that no phone signals can reach the phone. To make sure that there are no tiny gaps or tears in the foil through which signals can enter, once the phone is in the foil-wrapped towel or box, call it from another phone and see if it rings. If it does, hang up, wrap the towel or box with a 2nd layer of foil and call again. If the phone doesn't ring, that means that no signals can reach it, and so your movements can't be tracked through it.

And when you make your final trip out to your hideout, when you will begin hiding there during the Antichrist's worldwide reign, you will need to abandon your car miles away from your hideout and walk the rest of the way, as otherwise your car could catch the attention of any passing hostile people or patrolling drone aircraft. And even if you abandon your car miles away from you hideout, you will still want to camouflage it with brush to avoid it being seen and starting a general search of the area. Or, if there is not enough brush with which to camouflage it, you can let the air out of one of its tires which is visible from the road, so that people passing on the road will think that your car was left there because it got a flat tire.

Some people think that everyone in the cities will try to go out into the wilderness during the tribulation. But that may not be the case, for almost all people in the cities don't have hunting/fishing and other wilderness survival skills, and won't know of any well-stocked hideouts in the wilderness, and so they won't think that there is any food out there, or that they will be able to construct any decent shelter out there. They will think of the wilderness as being only barren ground and brush, rocks, trees, and mountains, and so they will stay in the cities where they have shelter and some chance of finding food. And if the cities come under martial law, they could become the safest places to be, as the military could bring order to them and supply them with emergency food and water.

But martial law will cut both ways in that once the Antichrist takes over everything (Revelation 13:7-18), the cities could become, in effect, huge military prisons, where people will have to receive the Antichrist's mark on their right hand or forehead if they want to buy any food (Revelation 13:16-17). And everyone will have to worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-10, Revelation 12:9) and a speaking image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) if they don't want to be beheaded (Revelation 20:4). Believers trapped in the cities must be willing to be beheaded, for if they go ahead and take the mark and worship Lucifer and the Antichrist and his image, they will ultimately lose their salvation and suffer eternally in fire and brimstone (Revelation 14:9-14).

Believers shouldn't assume that they will necessarily be able to stand up well under the hunger (and possibly torture) and beheading which will be imposed on believers trapped in the cities during the Antichrist's worldwide reign. Many believers could eventually give in and take the mark when their hunger and the hunger of their crying little ones reaches a certain point (Isaiah 8:21-22). And they could give in and worship Lucifer and the Antichrist and his image when they are confronted with they and their little ones being tortured and beheaded if they don't do those things. It will be much, much better for believers to avoid these horrors by fleeing into prepared hiding places in the wilderness right before the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign of terror begins (Revelation 12:6, Matthew 24:15-16).

"A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself..." (Proverbs 22:3, Proverbs 27:12, Proverbs 28:28, Proverbs 28:12b).

--

Someone might ask: "But couldn't the Antichrist use underground-scanning devices to detect such a hideout as you described above, like how underground-scanning devices have been used today to detect tunnels under the U.S.-Mexico border?"

Note that the border was scanned because smuggling tunnels have been found there in the past. The Antichrist won't have the time or resources to underground-scan every acre of non-border areas of the world out in the middle of nowhere, with no unusual surface features to suggest that anything is underground there.

--

Someone might ask: "But wouldn't the Antichrist notice a road in the wilderness going to "nowhere", i.e. a track you made while building your hideout?"

Note that wilderness areas often have many thousands of tracks going to nowhere, or forming large loops, made by off-road vehicles on recreational tours. Also, believers can simply cover over any new tracks which they may make while preparing their wilderness hideouts in areas without many other tracks. Or, they can place their hideout along an already-existing track which is so old, and which is so many miles long, and which either eventually loops, or connects two other tracks, that the Antichrist won't have the motive, time, or resources to underground-scan along both sides of every yard of such a track, especially considering how staggeringly vast the world's wilderness areas are, and how many old tracks they contain.

--

Someone might ask: "But can't the tracks made by off-road vehicles not be used to transport shipping containers?"

Actually, they can, if the soil isn't too sandy, and the containers are empty.

--

Someone might ask: "But won't the transport of shipping containers need the same kind of real road made for lumber exploitation?"

No, for lumber trucks are extremely heavy when fully-loaded with tree trunks.

--

Someone might ask: "But on a track used by off-road vehicles, won't it be impossible that nobody will notice someone trying to bury shipping containers?"

Note that any tracks on private wilderness land can be temporarily blocked with locked gates at their start and end, and the private land can be temporarily fenced all around with barbed wire and "No Trespassing" signs in order to prevent any trespassing while the hideout is being prepared. Then the gates, fence, and signs can be removed once the hideout is completed, so that the area appears to be completely uninhabited.

--

Someone might ask: "But couldn't the Antichrist recruit millions of people to hunt Christians in the wilderness, with simple metal detectors?"

Note that simple metal detectors aren't able to penetrate 6 feet underground. And it is unlikely that the Antichrist or any of his followers will want to bother with the relatively few Christians who will be hiding underground in the wilderness during his reign. For such Christians will in no way hinder the Antichrist's rule over the earth. And he will know that even Satan himself (the serpent) won't be able to get to every Christian in the wilderness (Revelation 12:14-16, Revelation 12:9).

ThomasGuthler said in post 24:

Only some people who received Holy Spirit Baptism are able to baptise others with the Holy Spirit?

That's right.

ThomasGuthler said in post 24:

How do you know you can baptise others in the Holy Spirit?

If, after you lay hands on someone and pray that they be given the baptism of the Holy Spirit, they begin to operate in one or more of the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:8-10), which operate in believers who have received Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46).
 
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Dale

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Bible2,

I notice that you believe that the religion of the coming Antichrist will be Gnosticism. I don't think anyone knows what the Antichrist religion will look like. I've noticed that rightists assume that the Antichrist will be a leftist. We don't know this. I have seen one view that says that the Antichrist will revive the worship of the Egyptian gods. We don't know this, and it seems completely arbitrary to me. If this coming Antichrist is to come in the near future, it is far more likely that this perverse religion will be a continuation of bad ideas that are already around. In any case, speculating about the shape of the Antichrist religion appears to be unprofitable.

You give 1 John 4:3 as authority for the supposed association of Antichrist and Gnosticism. Yet it is not at all clear that John is talking about an Antichrist who will be a world leader in the distant future. It looks like he is warning Christians about dangerous beliefs that were a problem at that time.

In the famous commentary of John Gill, he doesn't say that 1 John 4:3 is a warning about Gnosticism. He takes it as a general warning against all movements that disregard what we know about the nature of Christ.

The commentary of Matthew Henry also does not say that John is talking about a coming Antichrist who will be a leader of nations or the founder of a new religion. Henry doesn't mention Gnosticism in his interpretation. Henry believes that the passage is a warning against the charms of a “seducing antichristian spirit.” He also says that the passage is intended to offer encouragement, encouragement that these negative tendencies can be defeated.

I have quoted these commentaries below so that you can see what I am talking about.

1 John 4:2-3New International Version (NIV)
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.




John Gill on 1 John 4:3




1 John 4:3

And every spirit that confesseth not
The proper deity and sonship of Christ, his true and real humanity, and his Messiahship; or any of his offices, doctrines, and ordinances; or his satisfaction and righteousness; or that peace, pardon, justification, life, and salvation, are by him; all which are meant by what follows,

that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh:
this clause is left out in the Ethiopic version, and that without hurting the sense, since it is easily supplied from the preceding verse; and the Alexandrian copy, and the Vulgate Latin version, only read "Jesus": and the latter reads the whole thus, "and every spirit that dissolves Jesus"; that separates the two natures, human and divine, in him, and makes two persons of them; or denies either of them, either that he is truly God, or really man, or denies him to be Jesus, the Saviour; who, as much as in him lies, destroys his person, office, and work, and makes void his obedience, sufferings, and death:

is not of God;
neither he nor his doctrine are of God; his doctrine cannot come from God, being contrary to the word of God; and he himself is neither born of God, nor on his side.

And this is that [spirit] of antichrist:
who is against Christ, or opposes himself to him; as he who denies his sonship, his deity, his humanity, his offices, and his grace, manifestly does; every doctrine that is calculated against these truths is the spirit and doctrine of antichrist:

whereof you have heard that it should come, and even now already is
it the world;
in the false teachers, the forerunners of antichrist; (See Gill on 1 John 2:18).

Source:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/1-john-4-3.html










Matthew Henry Commentary on 1 John 4




Verses 4-6 In these verses the apostle encourages the disciples against the fear and danger of this seducing antichristian spirit, and that by such methods as these:—1. He assures them of a more divine principle in them: "You are of God, little children, 5:4. You are God’s little children. We are of God, v. 6. We are born of God, taught of God, anointed of God, and so secured against infectious fatal delusions. God has his chosen, who shall not be mortally seduced.’’ 2. He gives them hope of victory: "And have overcome them, v. 4. You have hitherto overcome these deceivers and their temptations, and there is good ground of hope that you will do so still, and that upon these two accounts:’’—(1.) "There is a strong preserver within you: Because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world, v. 4. The Spirit of God dwells in you, and that Spirit is more mighty than men of devils.’’ It is a great happiness to be under the influence of the Holy Ghost. (2.) "You are not of the same temper with these deceivers. The Spirit of God hath framed your mind for God and heaven; but they are of the world. The spirit that prevails in them leads them to this world; their heart is addicted thereto; they study the pomp, the pleasure, and interest of the world: and therefore speak they of the world; they profess a worldly messiah and saviour; they project a worldly kingdom and dominion; the possessions and treasures of the world would they engross to themselves, forgetting that the true Redeemer’s kingdom is not of this world.




Source:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/1-john/4.html
 
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Wgw

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I would be disappointed in the anti-Christ if he were to resort to such an asinine theology as Gnosticism. Although if true it would give me further reason to pour scorn upon the neo-Gnostic liberal clergy in the Episcopal Church USA.

Edit: I should perhaps add that my expectations for the anti-Christ were not stellar to begin with. But is it not too much to ask for competent villainy from the Prince of Darkness? Is it not unreasonable to desire that the person of the anti-Christ should at least drip with as much evil cunning as when portrayed by Michael York in the risible Omega Code?
 
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Dale said in post 26:

I've noticed that rightists assume that the Antichrist will be a leftist.

The Antichrist will be a socialist, a believer in distributing the wealth (Daniel 11:24), but not necessarily to the extent of atheistic communism (in its theory, not in its practice, for example, in the former USSR, or in China, where the country's wealth was/is not evenly distributed among the party leaders and the populace), or to the extent of the Christian communalism which was (truly) practiced by the early church (Acts 2:44-45, Acts 4:32 to 5:11; see also 2 Corinthians 8:14-15).

Dale quoted Henry in post 26:

God has his chosen, who shall not be mortally seduced.

Was Henry thinking of Matthew 24:24?

If so, in Matthew 24:24, the original Greek doesn't say "if it were possible", in the sense of it not being possible. Instead, it simply says "if possible", meaning that false Christs and false prophets will in our future perform great miracles by the power of Satan (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), as part of Satan's intention to deceive as many of the elect as possible. The Bible nowhere says it is impossible for any elect person to be deceived. Instead, Jesus had started out in Matthew 24 by specifically warning the elect to "Take heed that no man deceive you" (Matthew 24:4), meaning it is possible for the elect to be deceived, if they don't take heed to Jesus' warning regarding great-miracle-working false Christs and false prophets, who will appear in our future (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20).

The elect can also be deceived in other ways, whether before their salvation (Titus 3:3, Romans 7:11) or after their salvation (1 John 3:7; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Corinthians 15:33, Galatians 6:7, Ephesians 5:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:3). Paul warns the elect: "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1). The time will come when some "shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 4:4). For it is possible for a saved person to commit apostasy, to the ultimate loss of his salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

The fact that a saved person can be deceived into committing apostasy doesn't mean Satan is stronger than God, or that God would for no reason abandon a saved person, but means that the principle of the "deceivableness of unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:10, Proverbs 17:4a) applies even to a saved person. That is, one way a saved person could be deceived into committing apostasy would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he begins to listen to the lies of demons and latch onto them, to the point where he departs from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1). In a wrong desire to continue in their lusts without repentance, saved people can reach the point where they become no longer able to endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, and they instead seek out and latch onto other teachings which will help to support them in their lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

Another way a saved person could be brought to the point where he commits apostasy would be if he has a terror of being tortured and killed during a persecution against Christians, so that during such a persecution he completely renounces his faith in Jesus Christ and the gospel in order to avoid being tortured and killed (Mark 8:35-38; 2 Timothy 2:12). Some Christians will fall away in this sense during the future tribulation (2 Thessalonians 2:3, Matthew 24:9-13, cf. Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13), when the Antichrist will take power over the earth, make war against Biblical Christians (not in hiding), and physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

There will be no way to repent from committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8) and worshipping the Antichrist and his image and willingly receiving his mark on the forehead or right hand, even if this is done just to keep from getting killed (Revelation 13:15-18). Whoever does these things, even if they had become initially saved before, will end up suffering punishment in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-12). So Christians must be willing to be killed, even by getting beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6), before they would ever do these things (Revelation 14:12-13).

This ties in with the fact that a saved person can in the end have his name blotted out of the book of life if he doesn't overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). An example of saved people ultimately "overcoming" (Greek: nikao, G3528) or "getting the victory" (nikao) (Revelation 15:2) is found later in the book of Revelation, in Revelation 15:2, which refers to those saved people who will be willing to be killed by the Antichrist instead of worshipping him to save their mortal lives during the coming worldwide persecution against Biblical Christians (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). Christians will be able to spiritually "overcome" the Antichrist and Satan by not loving their lives to the death (Revelation 12:11).

So saved people need to be living righteously now, they need to be obedient now if they want to spiritually endure to the end during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:13). For only obedient believers will have their spiritual houses on the rock, so that they will endure the coming storm (Matthew 7:24-25). Disobedient believers will have their spiritual houses on the sand, so that they will fall away during the storm (Matthew 7:26-27). They will become part of the falling away, the apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2:3), the departure from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1), which will occur during the future tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, cf. Isaiah 8:21-22), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

Dale quoted Henry in post 26:

. . . the true Redeemer’s kingdom is not of this world.

John 18:36 means Jesus' future, physical reign on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29) won't be of this world in the sense that it won't come by worldly means, such as by the church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus returning physically from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), a new earth will be created and God's kingdom will continue forever on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21), and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Dale said in post 26 (in the signature):

The Land Tax: Untaxing Labor & Capital

Very good.

Also, it brings to mind the Biblical Jubilee (Leviticus 25:10), which is a wonderful practice. For a future, world economic collapse (similar to, but much worse than, 2008's Great Recession) will be brought about by the continued, unsustainable debt loads of the world's banks, governments, and individuals. God knew that eternal, recycling debts (i.e. borrowing or printing new money to pay off old debts) can only result, in the long term, in widespread economic ruin, due to eventual huge defaults or rampant inflation.

Also, Leviticus 25:10 prevents what we are seeing today: the unbelievable concentration of wealth and land ownership by only a relatively few individuals when compared with the population of the planet. It is eternal debt, and the subsequent loss of land ownership, that cannot help but eventually result in wage slavery and poverty for 99% of the population. God knew this. And it cannot last.
 
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Dale

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Bible2,

Thank you for your compliment on my Land Tax signature. It's unusual for anyone to say anything about it.




Bible2:

<< Dale said in post 26:

“I've noticed that rightists assume that the Antichrist will be a leftist.”

The Antichrist will be a socialist, a believer in distributing the wealth (Daniel 11:24), but not necessarily to the extent of atheistic communism (in its theory, not in its practice, for example, in the former USSR, or in China, where the country's wealth was/is not evenly distributed among the party leaders and the populace), >>




24 When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses—but only for a time.

Daniel 11:24New International Version (NIV)



Every Arab Sheikh distributes plunder among followers who took part in a battle. This is not the same thing as a managed economy or the State taking care of the poor.
 
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Dale said in post 29:

Thank you for your compliment on my Land Tax signature. It's unusual for anyone to say anything about it.

Especially in Congress, which may be bought and paid for by donors with huge landholdings.

Dale said in post 29:

24 When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses—but only for a time.

Daniel 11:24 New International Version (NIV)

Every Arab Sheikh distributes plunder among followers who took part in a battle. This is not the same thing as a managed economy or the State taking care of the poor.

Daniel 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches . . .

Regarding "he shall scatter among them the ... riches", note that the original Hebrew word translated as "them" (hemmah: H1992) doesn't mean "his followers" (NIV), but can instead be translated as "how many soever they be" (2 Samuel 24:3). And note that this can be what "his fathers have not done", i.e. distribute the extreme, hoarded wealth of the Arab Gulf states ("the fattest places") to all the Arab masses, from Oman to Morocco, most of whom are extremely poor. It is in this way that the (Baathist/Socialist) Antichrist could make all of the Arab masses his devoted followers, so that he becomes the supreme leader and founder of a future, United Arab States, stretching from Oman to Morocco, as a first step in his eventual world takeover (in Revelation 13:7b-18).

--

Regarding the Antichrist being a Baathist Socialist, and what could prepare the way for his Arab (and then world) takeover, he may not appear on the world stage until after the horrible, future, tribulation-starting war of Revelation 6:4-8 and Daniel 11:15-17 has resulted in the total defeat and occupation of Israel, and Egypt, and the death of 1/4 of the world. It could be this war which will help open the way for the Antichrist to arise on the world stage as a great man of peace and antitypically fulfill the "vile" person of Daniel 11:21-45.

One way this war could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to prevent the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, or ISIL, or Daesh) from taking over Iraq, and Syria, and all the rest of the Middle East, and eventually so that the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (i.e. that which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein), to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly.

And if the current, Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any return of a Baathist-dominated military (which cruelly suppressed the Iraqi Shiites under Saddam Hussein's rule), or balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For they could see a well-run, Baathist Iraqi Army and government as the only way to keep ISIS/ISIL under control, and the only way to eventually invade and defeat Iran, which invasion the Iraqi Baathists could agree to perform, for they see meddling, non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, "false flag" operations could be managed by the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they are doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many still secretly tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, i.e. the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification". The first thing the Antichrist could do once he is given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist federation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and a "United Palestine" (i.e. a defeated and occupied Israel), is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22).

These ultra-Orthodox Jews could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it is not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm (such as by incapacitating its Jewish defenders with huge clouds of tear gas while tens of thousands of Arab soldiers wearing gas masks take control of the city by climbing over its walls on thousands of tall ladders).

But then, instead of imprisoning or executing all the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false Messiah, the Antichrist will do an amazing thing. He will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23), permitting them to keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. By this peace treaty, the Antichrist could present himself to the world as (in his words): "A reasonable man, a man of peace. I am no Hitler. I do not desire a second Holocaust. I am willing to give the religious Jews in the Old City seven years to show that they are willing to live peacefully with others, that they are different than the Zionist Jews who have just destroyed the world with their nuclear weapons".

And if the Antichrist gets flak from his fellow Baathists for letting the ultra-Orthodox Jews keep the Old City of Jerusalem, he could explain to them privately that (in his words) "It is all a temporary ruse, meant to keep world opinion off guard while we consolidate our position". The Baathists could consolidate their position by becoming so well dug-in, and so well-equipped and -advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that a U.S. counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations. For if the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel, they will be hailed by the Arab masses across the Arab world as magnificent heroes, so that the Baathists could have no problem persuading the Arab masses to support them. And the Baathists could justify their defeat of the Egyptian military regime, and then their subsequent defeat of other regimes such as in Jordan, by railing against them as being (what they could call):

"These vile cronies of the Americans. These cronies pretended to be for the Arab people while in fact they were taking American bribes in the billions, completely selling out our Palestinian brothers to the endless cruelties of the Zionist occupation, and keeping you, the great majority of the Arab people, in poverty. These cronies, like the Zionists themselves, were the American bulwarks against our glorious Arab unification and return to world power. Join now with us, the Baathists, that we might bring about the long-awaited Arab Renaissance, the long-awaited Arab Resurrection [the Arab word 'Baath' can mean 'Renaissance' and 'Resurrection'], that we Arabs might all rise up together and unite, from Oman to Morocco, into one great United Arab States, one great Arab Empire, shaking off completely all the shackles of the West, placed upon us so long ago, and return to our former glory as we had during the Middle Ages, when we were free and far superior to the West".

The Baathists could also rail against the kings and sheikhs of the Arab Gulf States for (in their words) "Hoarding the huge oil wealth given by Allah to all the Arabs, and keeping the Arab masses in poverty and subjugation to Western interests". The Baathists are socialist, and so could call for the distribution of the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24). In this way, and by their defeat and occupation of Israel, the Baathists could easily turn the masses to their side in every Arab nation.

During the first few years of the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist could employ Baathism as the means by which he will gradually and peacefully put together a United Arab States, or Arab Union, stretching from Oman to Morocco. Once he has accomplished this, he could then begin to downplay Baathism and start speaking of "World peace and the unity of mankind". He could convince an oil-thirsty European Union to let the oil-rich Arab Union join it, thereby forming a massive Mediterranean Union, which he could manage to peacefully gain control of and use as his base of power to eventually exert his hegemony over the entire earth (Revelation 13:7b).

Then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break it, attack the 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices offered in front of it, and sit (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). He will then rule the whole earth by the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9) for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14), or 1,260 literal days (Revelation 12:6).

The return of Jesus Christ from heaven (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16) may not occur immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, but could occur 75 days later, on the 1,335th day after the Antichrist and his followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15). The 75 days could be taken up by the vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the Antichrist's worshippers (Revelation 16).

When Jesus returns, he will completely defeat the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9), and he will have Satan bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3). Then the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected church (including those in the church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist) will reign physically on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).

--

Some possible objections to the Baathist war scenario outlined earlier:

1. "Wouldn't the Baathists be deterred from attacking, by Israel's nukes?"

Even though Iraq and Syria know of Israel's nuclear weapons and its tendency to retaliate in huge measure against attacks, Iraq and Syria could still decide to make an all-out attack against Israel, for a couple of reasons. First, by that time Iran could have successfully built (or secretly purchased from North Korea) and tested its first nuclear weapon, and have claimed to have built a few more to (in its words) "Serve solely for defensive purposes against Israel's nuclear threat". Iraq and Syria could then think that Israel won't use its nuclear weapons against them, even if they do attack Israel with all of their conventional forces, because Israel would then have to fear Iran retaliating against Israel with nuclear weapons.

Second, the destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque could so enrage the rank and file of the (Muslim) Iraqi and Syrian Armies that they could demand an immediate invasion of Israel, and threaten an all-out revolt against their generals if they refuse to lead them in the attack. Fearing for their own lives at the hands of their own soldiers, the generals could initiate the attack against Israel, figuring that even if Israel goes ahead and nukes Baghdad and Damascus in retaliation for the total defeat of Israel, by that time the Iraqi and Syrian armies will all be in Israel, out of harm's way from Israel's nukes, for Israel isn't going to nuke its own land.

But what good would it do the Baathists to gain "Palestine" and Egypt while losing Baghdad and Damascus to Israeli nukes? The Baathists could figure that the loss of Baghdad and Damascus (which they could evacuate ahead of time) is worth it in order to completely defeat Israel and Egypt, thereby removing much of the foundation of U.S. hegemony over the Arab world. And by the time that the U.S. makes its counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt, the Baathists could have become so well dug-in, and so well-equipped and -advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that the U.S. counter-attack to restore Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations.

--

2. "Wouldn't the awesome Israeli Air Force be able to take out any hostile forces streaming toward Israel?"

The Israeli Air Force could be unable to hit enough of the massive Iraqi invading force to prevent the little territory of Israel from being overrun. For between Baghdad and Israel is a lot of flat desert across which massive numbers of Iraqi tanks, armored personnel carriers, and rapid-fire, rapidly-moving tracked howitzers could stream west toward Israel in very wide and staggered formations, which Israel's Air Force could have difficulty taking out quickly. And interspersed liberally among the Iraqi forces could be large numbers of highly mobile and technically advanced (U.S.-made) Iraqi SAM (surface-to-air missile) units, which could manage to take out most of Israel's Air Force as it is attacking the Iraqi forces. Any Iraqi force configuration which the U.S. will have provided to the Iraqi Army, with the idea of making sure that Iraq could defeat all of Iran's air and ground defenses and overrun Iran's relatively huge territory, could also be capable of (instead) defeating Israel's air and ground defenses to the point of Iraq being able to overrun the little territory of Israel.

--

3. "What about the U.S. forces in Iraq, or Kuwait?"

There could be relatively few U.S. forces in Iraq when the war happens, just as there are relatively few now. And even if significant numbers do return to Iraq before the war happens (such as to help Iraq contain ISIS/ISIL), they, just as the U.S. forces in Kuwait, would have a hard time justifying to the Iraqi masses the U.S.'s killing of Iraqi troops (starting on their way across the desert to defeat Israel). Also, if the Iraqi Army vacates Iraq in order to defeat Israel (with a promise from Israel-hating Iran not to invade Iraq in the meantime), then if all of the U.S. forces in Kuwait (and any which may have returned to Iraq) went chasing westward after the Iraqi Army to attack and weaken it before it reaches Israel, the U.S. would then have to fear Iran invading and occupying a completely-defenseless Iraq (which occupation Iran could justify by saying that it is just there to defend the Iraqi masses from any retaliation by U.S. forces until the Iraqi Army can return from its defeat of Israel), not to mention that it would also leave the U.S.'s own flank in Kuwait dangerously exposed to an Iranian invasion and occupation.

--

4. "Wouldn't the U.S. be able to counter-attack with its forces in the West and restore Israel and Egypt?"

If the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt, the U.S. could begin a counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt by attempting a huge amphibious assault on occupied Egypt. But the Baathists could cut the invasion forces to shreds in the sea by firing tens of thousands of rockets and missiles (well-camouflaged and -dispersed on flat roofs in densely populated areas close to shore), resulting in the loss of something like 30,000 U.S. military personnel in a single day. This anti-Inchon could cause a huge uproar among the U.S. public, which could cry out: "What are we doing over there? Who cares about Egypt? And why in the world do the Israelis have to live in that awful region surrounded by so many hateful and powerful enemies? Let all of the Israelis come over here to America and live in freedom and peace with us. Why should any more of our precious young men be slaughtered over this madness in the Middle East?"

And so the U.S. could withdraw from attempting any more counter-attacks to restore Israel and Egypt. Also, a bankruptcy of the U.S. government at this same time because of a massive run on the U.S. dollar after its disastrous failure in the counter-attack could render the U.S. unable for a time to finance any more huge military invasions overseas. The U.S. could instead blockade the Baathists with its huge Navy and call an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council to address the situation. But Russia and China could veto any votes to send in outside forces, saying: "What right does the world have to interfere in this act of Arab self-determination? How is Arab Iraq and Syria invading Arab Palestine and Egypt to establish a free union of Arabs any different than the American North invading the American South during the American Civil War to establish a free union of Americans? Should the U.N. authorize outside forces to invade the U.S. to restore the Confederacy? And how is the Arabs occupying the Jews' ancestral land any different than the U.S. occupying the American Indians' ancestral lands? Should the U.N. authorize outside forces to invade the U.S. to restore the American Indians to their ancestral lands?"

The U.S. could then turn to the U.N. General Assembly, only to have its spokesman hooted and shouted from the podium by a world which is jealous of America's power, and which could say (in its words): "Ha! Ha! Great America is defeated! And no one wants to help it restore its hegemony over the Middle East!" The U.S. could then turn to NATO, only to have the Europeans turn down its request to send the armies of Europe (as they could say) "into the jaws of death, and for what?" Russia and China, seeing America's isolation, could then send in military "advisers" into an ever-expanding "United Arab States" and shore it up with massive amounts of military hardware and training. Oil-thirsty China could do so in exchange for cheap oil, and oil-rich Russia could sell its military hardware in exchange for huge amounts of cash (and just to be able to thumb its nose at a defeated U.S., and keep the U.S. from taking back hegemony over the Middle East).

Ultimately, after the Baathists have completed taking control of the entire Arab Middle East and North Africa, the U.S. could find itself completely blocked out of these regions and all of their oil, but could say that it is those regions which are blockaded by the huge U.S. Navy. To get around the U.S. naval blockade, China could lay an oil pipeline from the Middle East to a point on the coast of the Indian Ocean (where oil tankers could get the oil) beyond the blockade. (Also, if most of the U.S. Navy gets deployed to blockade the huge region controlled by the Baathists, China could see that as the time for it to make an all-out attempt to restore Taiwan to mainland Chinese control, and also to take control of every disputed island -- and every oil- and gas-rich undersea territory -- in the South China Sea and the East China Sea.) Russia could get around the U.S. naval blockade by sending into the Middle East and North Africa any military hardware sales it would have delivered by ship, by delivering them instead via rail and trucks crossing the Caucasus and western Iran. And Europe could get around the blockade and obtain oil from the Middle East and North Africa by building a large pipeline across the Bosporus, and possibly even by digging a pipeline tunnel under the Strait of Gibraltar.

--

5. "Wouldn't God letting the state of Israel be ended by the Baathists break his promises?"

No, God's promises won't be broken, even if the Baathist scenario comes to pass. For just as God allowed the ancient state of Israel to be ended by the Babylonians in 586 BC, but then restored the state of Israel in 538 BC; and just as God then allowed the state of Israel to be ended again by the ancient Romans in 70 AD, but then allowed the state of Israel to be established again in 1948 AD; so God could allow the state of Israel to be ended again by the Baathists at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, but then restore the state of Israel again at Jesus' 2nd coming, which will occur immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

--

6. "Didn't Iraq fail to defeat Iran the last time?"

Yes, but the U.S. could build up a present-day, Baathist Iraqi Army until it is much more powerful than it was under (Baathist) Saddam Hussein, to the point where the U.S. could become convinced that another stalemate-war (like in the 1980's) between a Baathist Iraq and a theocratic Iran will be avoided, and that Iraq will be able to completely overrun and occupy Iran. (But then Baathist Iraq could decide not to invade Iran at all, but to turn and defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt instead.)

--

7. "Why would the U.S. create another, and even stronger, Baathist, Saddam Hussein-type military leader of Iraq, knowing full well that he could attack Israel instead of Iran?"

For a couple of reasons. First, the U.S. could figure that it really doesn't have any choice about having to build up and trust a new Baathist, Saddam-type military ruler of Iraq, because the U.S. has no other viable option regarding how to put an end to Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. The war-weary U.S. public won't support an all-out ground invasion of Iran by U.S. soldiers, which could result in many thousands of them being killed and tens of thousands of them being seriously wounded. So the U.S. needs a proxy army; it needs cannon fodder made up of a large number of foreign (i.e. Iraqi) soldiers.

Second, the new Baathist, Saddam-type military ruler of Iraq (who could be put in place in the future by the U.S.) could be extremely shrewd, in that he could be very careful to always assert (even in the privacy of his bedroom, talking alone with his wife; or speaking privately to his son on his smartphone) that he has no interest whatsoever in ever invading any other country but Iran. For he will know that the NSA, the CIA, MI6, GCHQ, and the Mossad will be secretly listening in to everything that he says to anyone at any time in any place, via electronic eavesdropping, e.g. by the tapping of all of his smartphone signals, and via listening devices hidden throughout all of his offices, cars, homes, favorite restaurants, etc.; and via very well-bribed and/or blackmailed double agents among his closest aides and confidants. So the U.S. and Israel could begin to feel very confident that he is "their man", someone they can trust to take out Iran for them, and not cause any trouble anywhere else. (But then he could decide not to invade Iran at all, but Israel and Egypt instead.)

--

8. "Why not just let Israel bomb Iran into submission?"

A senior Israel Defense Forces officer told the Israeli cabinet in 2011 that the IDF doesn't have the ability to hit the Iranian nuclear program in a "meaningful way". This could be because some of the key Iranian nuclear facilities are buried so deep underground (i.e. under mountains) that no bombs dropped from the air (not even the best bunker busters) can get down to them. The only way to end Iran's nuclear weapons program is to send ground forces into Iran which can fight their way down into the facilities and blow them up with hand-placed plastic explosives. But there are so many different facilities scattered in so many different places across Iran, it would take an all-out ground invasion to be able to reach all the facilities, and also to take out Iran's extremist regime, which if it isn't removed will simply rebuild any facilities which are destroyed. But, in an awful irony, the preparations for an all-out ground war against Iran, to prevent the destruction of Israel by Iranian nukes, could result in the destruction of Israel during a different war, by the very ground forces which had been built up (by the U.S.) to invade Iran.

--

Some possible objections to the Baathist, Arab political unity scenario outlined earlier:

1. "Isn't there no political unity, but only much divisiveness, in the Arab world?"

There is no unity now, when the Arab masses are unnaturally divided by rival military dictatorships, many supported by the U.S. and Israel. But all of the current political divisiveness in the Arab world could be overcome if Baathism is able to ignite Arab nationalism as the cause celebre among the Arab masses, who could overthrow any Arab governments insistent on keeping the Arab world splintered up into petty, political fiefdoms. Take out the different dictatorships and replace them with one popular, charismatic, Arab-nationalist, Baathist dictator (i.e. the Antichrist), who distributes the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24), and you will get political unity in the Arab world in a heartbeat.

--

2. "Isn't the Arab world hopelessly divided by religion (Sunnis vs. Shiites), killing its own without batting an eyelid?"

The beauty of Baathism (from a Baathist's point of view) is that it downplays religion and focuses on Arab nationalism. The Baathists could point to Sunni vs. Shiite terrorism to show that religious extremism is only hurting the Arabs themselves, and that the Arabs need to assert religious moderation across the board. Almost all Arabs are already religiously moderate; they are just too scared of the religious extremists to speak out publicly against extremism. But if the Baathists squash the extremists militarily, the Arabs can unite politically under Arab nationalism and a moderate Islam into one, powerful United Arab States, regardless of the majority religious sects within its various states.

--

3. "Isn't Arab unity and power impossible because they aren't Western thinkers; they don't have Western intellects?"

The Arabs won't have to become Western thinkers (in the sense of embracing democracy or women's rights) in order to become united, like they were united at times during the Middle Ages, when for centuries Arab intellectual endeavors far excelled those in Europe. The Arabs are in no sense stupid intellectually. Their masses have just in recent centuries been suppressed intellectually, not educated in any matters beyond religion. Dubai shows that, once educated in a modern fashion, the Arab mind is more than capable of developing a modern, technological society like that in the West. Imagine the level of development in Dubai spread across the Arab world, from Oman to Morocco, and you can begin to grasp the potential power of a United Arab States.

--

4. "Aren't the Baathists history after Saddam ruined their image?"

Note that Baathism isn't history in the minds of most of the Sunni Arabs of Iraq, or in the minds of millions of the people of Syria (which is still Baathist). And the rest of the Arabs could easily be swayed to join the Baathists if they defeat Israel, and also distribute the Arab Gulf states' oil wealth to the Arab masses. For Baathism's true raison d'etre is to raise up all of the Arab people themselves into a mighty and prosperous Arab Empire, free of all Western (not to mention Shiite Iranian) tyranny.
 
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BobRyan

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In another closed Thread started you mentioned 3 requirements for salvation.

What about Holy-Spirit baptism, in other similar Threads you mentioned it not, so how do you back it up with scripture as a must?

How often is it required to partake in communion, is one time enough or every day/week?
Speaking in tongues is described to cease with "pauo" and not with "katargeo", so some say that´s the reason the real one is no more operating today.

Another Topic:
You mentioned that Infants are already elect/nonelect so if they die so early (Abortion) most of them are lost?

Maybe I can use this Thread for further questions, I´m following your Posts since a while and it´s not possible to contact you with PM.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are to remain until Christ comes according to Ephesians 4.

But the gift of tongues popular today - is not what you find in Acts 2 or in 1Cor 14. It is fake.
 
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Dale

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Bible2,

I don't know why you are expecting an ultra-orthodox false messiah. Where did you get that from?


Bible2 in post #30:

<< But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple >>

<< is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22). >>




The verses you cite have nothing to do with the points that you make. Millions of people have read these verses without coming to the conclusions that you arrive at. To make a case you have to explain why you interpret these verses differently from the way anyone else does.
 
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Dale said in post 32:

To make a case you have to explain why you interpret these verses differently from the way anyone else does.

Regarding Daniel 9:26a, note that the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). The future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false Messiah and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

--

One reason the 3rd Jewish temple of Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government has been very careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the Israeli government knows that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to destroy these buildings (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the current state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely.

While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the 3rd temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic city-state of (what they could call ) "the True Israel". They could establish this within the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and build on the Temple Mount a 3rd Jewish temple before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law, and banish every non-kosher person and thing from ever entering within Old Jerusalem's "Holy walls".

(This could point to another reason that the current, secular government of Israel doesn't want to let the ultra-Orthodox Jews build a 3rd temple: out of fear that the secular authority of the Israeli government could subsequently get undermined. For once temple practices resumed and a priesthood came into power, a creep toward theocracy could ensue in Israel, where priests and rabbis would become powerful enough to replace the secular leaders in Israel. So the secular leaders could want to simply place a hold on any drift in that direction by forbidding the building of a 3rd temple.)

Something which could help to bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to the point of desiring to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in "Samaria and Judaea" (also called the "West Bank"), and in eastern Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. (Any such handover won't happen without a removal of Netanyahu from power, possibly by assassination.) For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they are allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by 3 huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

(A fear of the ultra-Orthodox Jews resorting to violence could be one of the reasons that the Israeli government refuses to hinder Jewish settlement activity in Samaria, Judaea, and eastern Jerusalem. It could also be one of the reasons that the U.S. government has been convinced by Israel to back off from requiring any such hindrance. But if down the road, pressure from the Arab masses for a Palestinian state becomes so extreme that it begins to threaten to overthrow U.S. hegemony over the Arab world, the U.S. could decide to force Israel to surrender all of the Jewish settlements to a Palestinian state.)

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements at some point in our future, something else which could help to tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place which He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount, and to let it remain under the religious control of the vile Muslims? Let us all rise up now, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into a religious frenzy, so that they will all with great zeal, and without any fear, march in their tens of thousands upon the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God "for His great and mighty Victory".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the occurrence of a series of great earthquakes in Jerusalem which will severely damage the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque, to the point where they will stop being used. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see this as (in their words) "Clearly a portent from God that he will no longer allow Muslims to trample His Holy Mountain. We must now reassert total Jewish control over it and rebuild His Holy Temple there".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark, because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see a retrieval of the Ark as (in their words) "An unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, all armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it is out and the IDF troops actually see it, it is unlikely that they are going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount; they will be in such awe.

Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount and begin completely destroying the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it is unlikely that the IDF troops are going to open fire, whether with lead bullets or rubber bullets, on their fellow Jews, slaughtering or injuring hundreds or thousands of them. Also, increasing numbers of IDF officers are very religious, so they could order their troops to stand down. And if some non-religious officers convince their troops to employ tear gas in an attempt to simply disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews without harming them, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along gas masks (which, ironically, could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear that Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical-weapons payloads).

So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.
 
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BobRyan

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Bible2,

I don't know why you are expecting an ultra-orthodox false messiah. Where did you get that from?


Bible2 in post #30:

<< But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple >>

<< is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22). >>




The verses you cite have nothing to do with the points that you make. Millions of people have read these verses without coming to the conclusions that you arrive at. To make a case you have to explain why you interpret these verses differently from the way anyone else does.

In fact Dan 9 refers to a 490 years prophecy that predicts the first coming of Christ - his 3.5 year ministry and death in the midst of the 70th week of years - in Ad 31 and then the end of probation for the Jews in AD 34 - because if this immutable Bible rule - all Bible prophetic timelines are contiguous -- this is true without exception.
 
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BobRyan said in post 34:

. . . all Bible prophetic timelines are contiguous -- this is true without exception.

Note that even in preterism, there was a gap of decades between the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For 1st century AD Jerusalem wasn't destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion. Also, there will be a gap of about 7 years between the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For the current Jerusalem won't be destroyed until right before and at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21), about 7 years after the Antichrist "cuts" a 7-year treaty (Daniel 9:26a,27a) with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) who will be ruling Jerusalem at the start (and then during the first half) of the possibly 7-year tribulation.

--

In the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers from nations throughout the Roman empire (which included the territory of modern-day Lebanon). These soldiers were "the people" in Daniel 9:26, their "prince" being Titus. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem will be destroyed by all nations of the earth, which will all be under the Antichrist's rule by that time (Revelation 13:7b), when they gather against Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21).

And just as "the city" in Daniel 9:26 is Jerusalem, so "the sanctuary" is the Jewish temple building in Jerusalem. In the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, the 2nd Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman-empire soldiers. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, a future, 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:2, Luke 19:44), when Jerusalem is pillaged by all nations of the earth right before Jesus' 2nd coming to save and restore Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-21).

--

The time frame in Daniel 9:26a could have a future fulfillment in which an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" will have a peace treaty "cut" with him 62 literal weeks after he and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers take control of the Old City of Jerusalem. If this is the case, then the 7 weeks in Daniel 9:25 could have a preceding, future fulfillment in which there will be 7 literal weeks between the time that this false Messiah first commands his followers that they must take control of the Old City of Jerusalem (which includes the Temple Mount) -- and restore it to perfect kosher holiness and rebuild any (by that time) damaged portions of it and its wall -- and the time when they actually take control of the Old City, and the false Messiah begins ruling there.

--

Regarding Daniel 9:27, someone might ask: "Didn't the New Covenant continue for 3.5 years after the Crucifixion, and then end or go out to Gentiles?"

The answer would be no, because the New Covenant has never ended, and will never end. For it is the "everlasting covenant" by which everyone in the church, whether Jew or Gentile, is saved (Hebrews 13:20, Hebrews 9:15, Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6). Also, the New Covenant didn't wait for 3.5 years to go to Gentiles, for some Gentiles were already part of the church as early as Acts 6:1.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Especially in Congress, which may be bought and paid for by donors with huge landholdings.

Daniel 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches . . .

Regarding "he shall scatter among them the ... riches", note that the original Hebrew word translated as "them" (hemmah: H1992) doesn't mean "his followers" (NIV), but can instead be translated as "how many soever they be" (2 Samuel 24:3). And note that this can be what "his fathers have not done", i.e. distribute the extreme, hoarded wealth of the Arab Gulf states ("the fattest places") to all the Arab masses, from Oman to Morocco, most of whom are extremely poor. It is in this way that the (Baathist/Socialist) Antichrist could make all of the Arab masses his devoted followers, so that he becomes the supreme leader and founder of a future, United Arab States, stretching from Oman to Morocco, as a first step in his eventual world takeover (in Revelation 13:7b-18).
--
Regarding the Antichrist being a Baathist Socialist, and what could prepare the way for his Arab (and then world) takeover, he may not appear on the world stage until after the horrible, future, tribulation-starting war of Revelation 6:4-8 and Daniel 11:15-17 has resulted in the total defeat and occupation of Israel, and Egypt, and the death of 1/4 of the world. It could be this war which will help open the way for the Antichrist to arise on the world stage as a great man of peace and antitypically fulfill the "vile" person of Daniel 11:21-45.

One way this war could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to prevent the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, or ISIL, or Daesh) from taking over Iraq, and Syria, and all the rest of the Middle East, and eventually so that the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (i.e. that which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein), to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly......
The Muslims have their own version of the "anti-christ"......sounds more like a "cyclops" character....


Dajjal (The Anti-Christ) According to Quran and Sunnah
March 27, 2011 at 1:23am
Dajjal

(The Anti-Christ) According to Quran and Sunnah

Dajjal is One-Eyed


Hadith - Bukhari 9.241, Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar

Allah's Apostle(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) stood up amongst the people and then praised and glorified Allah as He deserved and then he mentioned Ad-Dajjal, saying, "I warn you of him, and there was no prophet but warned his followers of him; but I will tell you something about him which no prophet has told his followers: Ad-Dajjal is one-eyed whereas Allah is not."

Hadith - Bukhari 9.504, Narrated Abdullah

Ad-Dajjal was mentioned in the presence of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). The Prophet PBUH said "Allah is not hidden from you; He is not one-eyed,", and pointed with his hand towards his eye, adding, "said, "While Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a protruding grape."

Statement about the Antichrist

The Messenger of Allah, Allah prayed and peace be upon him has explained to us the characteristics of (One-eyed quack) Antichrist in his honest sayings (Hadith)s and has gave a lot of hints and signals:
إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَذِكْرَى لِمَن كَانَ لَهُ قَلْبٌ أَوْ أَلْقَى السَّمْعَ وَهُوَ شَهِيدٌ
The Holy Quran (Qaf:37)
The Meaning of this Quranic verse :This is a reminder for whom has a heart (to understand) or hearing (and listen)and he is clear-sighted (to recognize the right and wrong) .One of these signals his saying(Hadith) Allah prayed and peace be upon him:
)يأتي الدجال بفتنة خفية ثم يخرج ولا يعرفه أحد إلا مؤمن ومن علاماته لا يذكر أسمه على منبر)
The meaning of the previous Hadith that the prophet Mohammad Allah prayed and peace be upon him saying(Hadith) that the (One-eyed quack) Antichrist come with a hidden Fitna(Anti-religious ideas and covering the truth with falsehood)and then he go, but no one know him except one believer ,one his signals (One-eyed quack) Antichrist when he stay among people is that his name (Aflaq) not going to be mentioned on any Menbar(It is a place in the mosque where the clerics stand to deliver the speech every Friday) . The great truth from our beloved prophet Mohammad Allah prayed and peace be upon him is that no one ever mentioned the name of (One-eyed quack) Antichrist (Aflaq) on any Menbar(It is a place in the mosque where the clerics stand to deliver the speech every Friday).
لا يخرج الدجال حتى يذهل الناس عن ذكره وحتى تترك الأمة ذكره على المنابر

The meaning of the prophet Mohammad Allah prayed and peace be upon him saying(Hadeeth) that the (One- eyed quack) Antichrist does not come out until the people become absent-minded of mentioning him and until the nation(Muslims) abandon mentioning him on the Menbars(It is a place where the speaker stand to deliver the speech every Friday).
 
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LittleLambofJesus said in post 36:

The Muslims have their own version of the "anti-christ" . . .

Dajjal (The Anti-Christ) According to Quran and Sunnah

In Muslim prophecy, "The Masih ad-Dajjal" is indeed "The False Messiah" whom Muslims say will appear in the end times. While Bible prophecy shows that there will be multiple false Messiahs, who will be able to perform amazing miracles (Matthew 24:24), Muslims could focus on one of these, a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Israel, as being "The Masih ad-Dajjal", after he declares himself to be the Messiah but then (with his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers) completely destroys the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, in order to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple.

It could be this destruction of the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, by a Jewish man whom the Muslims could declare to be "The Masih ad-Dajjal", which will give rise to an all-out war, in which a different man -- an Arab who could be the first man whom the Muslims will declare to be the "Mahdi" -- will completely defeat and occupy Israel (Daniel 11:15-17).

Regarding the Muslim "Mahdi", during the Antichrist's rise to power, before he declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36) and begins his 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), if he greatly increases the military and political power of the Arab world, which is mostly Muslim, many Muslims could declare him to be the Mahdi. They could do this even though he won't fulfill most of the detailed Muslim prophecies regarding the Mahdi. For the Muslim prophecies regarding the Mahdi aren't scriptural, and so nothing requires that they will all be fulfilled. Also, the Antichrist could reject the solely-human title of the "Mahdi", in his own mind, as being far beneath what he sees as his divinity. And before he declares himself to be God, if he rejects the title of "Mahdi" publicly, he could pretend to do so for humble reasons, saying something like: "Oh, no, I am not the great Mahdi, but a humble peacemaker who wants the best for all Arabs and for all mankind, no matter what religion they may presently follow", etc.

Also, the first person whom Muslims will declare to be the Mahdi may not even be the Antichrist. For before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45), an Iraqi Baathist General could lead an all-out war against Israel which will result in its total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"). This Iraqi Baathist General could then be hailed by Muslims worldwide as the Mahdi. But he will subsequently suffer a defeat (perhaps in Algeria), and then he will mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:18-19), so that the Muslims could say that they were mistaken in thinking that he was the Mahdi.

Similarly, years later, when the Antichrist claims to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and starts forcing the world to worship him (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9) and an image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), if many Muslims had said that he was the Mahdi, some of them could say that they were mistaken. Also, these actions by the Antichrist will result in a fatwa, a death sentence, being issued against him by radical Muslim clerics, which fatwa Islamic terrorists could then try to carry out by waging all-out jihad ("holy war") against the Antichrist. For they hold most strongly to Islam's tenets that no man can be God, that Lucifer/Satan is evil, and that no image can be worshipped. But the terrorist part of Islam (just as even the moderate part of Islam, and just as even public, Biblical Christianity) will eventually be wiped out during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, when everyone (not in hiding) will be forced to either convert to the Antichrist's religion of Gnostic Luciferianism or be killed (Revelation 13:4-18; 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

Also, even though Jews today don't go around killing people for religious reasons, by the time that the Antichrist declares himself to be God, some ultra-Orthodox Jews, led by a miracle-working false "Messiah", might also feel inspired to try to kill the Antichrist for blasphemy, especially when he will commit it (at least one time) even within their own (future) temple (2 Thessalonians 2:4) in Jerusalem, and he will defile that temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in every other religions' holiest shrine and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc. This could result in the radical adherents of every religion becoming so enraged at the Antichrist that they will attempt to assassinate him. But they will all fail to defeat him, for he won't be defeated until he is cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8-9, Revelation 19:20).
 
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LittleLambofJesus said in post 36:

The Muslims have their own version of the "anti-christ" . . .

Dajjal (The Anti-Christ) According to Quran and Sunnah

It is sometimes claimed (by Christians) that the Antichrist will be a Muslim.

But note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms that no man can be God, while the Antichrist will say that he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly-apostate pope), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

--

Even though Islam (in its current form) won't be the religion of the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, Islam could be, since the latter half of the 7th century AD, Revelation 17:10's seventh empire (the Antichrist's empire will be a different, still-future, 8th empire: Revelation 17:11). Also, because Islam falsely claims the anti-gospel Koran came through the angel Gabriel, it is one fulfillment of Galatians 1:8-9 (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).

Islam is an anti-gospel religion because, even though it affirms Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 5:17,75), it denies Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (Koran 9:30, Koran 4:171, Koran 5:72). And it denies he died on the Cross for our sins (Koran 4:157) and rose physically from the dead on the 3rd day. In order to be saved, people have to believe the gospel that Jesus is both the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 3:16,36; 1 John 2:23), and that he died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the 3rd day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46,47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

The reason why it is necessary to believe these things in order to be saved is because it was only as the human/divine Son of God that Jesus' suffering during his Passion could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46).

Jesus' suffering during his Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 John 2:2), because Jesus isn't just a human, but also God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28). His soul is infinite, and so the suffering of his soul (Isaiah 53:11) was infinite in amount, even though it wasn't infinite in duration. And so his suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46). Because humans who aren't God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins, they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:46).

Every human has sinned (Romans 3:23), except Jesus (Hebrews 4:15b; 2 Corinthians 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Peter 3:18, Isaiah 53:11) an infinite amount, when the elect repent from their sins and believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice, they can have their past sins forgiven (Romans 3:25-26, Matthew 26:28), while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18).

One way to help Muslims understand how Jesus can be God, from everlasting, is to question them about their understanding of the Muslim belief regarding the Koran. For Islam says there was no time when the Koran didn't exist in a spiritual form in heaven, that it has always coexisted with Allah as his word. So Christians can show Muslims that the Bible says before Jesus' incarnation, there was no time when he didn't exist in a spiritual form in heaven. He has always coexisted with God the Father as God the Word (John 1:1,14).

This isn't to suggest the Muslim claim regarding the Koran is true, or that the book itself is true. Indeed, (again) because Islam falsely claims the anti-gospel Koran came through the angel Gabriel, it is one fulfillment of Galatians 1:8-9 (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).

LittleLambofJesus said in post 36:

The Muslims have their own version of the "anti-christ" . . .

Dajjal (The Anti-Christ) According to Quran and Sunnah

In Muslim prophecy, "The Masih ad-Dajjal" is indeed "The False Messiah/Christ" whom Muslims say will appear in the end times. But from a Christian perspective "anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

Note that nothing requires that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) in Israel, promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
 
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Dale

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Bible 2,

As I said earlier, you are not really presenting a case because the verses you mention don't really point to your conclusions. You are drawing very specific conclusions even from the mention of a single word in Scripture.



You seem to assume that it is the ultra-orthodox who want the Temple to be rebuilt. Some of those who want the Temple rebuilt are ultra-orthodox but some are also simply ultra-nationalists. The movement is quite complex.
 
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