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Questions for a rational Christian.

AFallingStar

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Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?

For me, I've always found "believe" to be a hard concept to explain. Its origin seems to be rooted in some kind of instruction, and in the case of religious beliefs, I was probably instructed of God's existence from before I could talk. When you are very young and learning about the world, you generally tend to accept the things those who are closest to you tell you. This was the case for God, and because I had a happy childhood and didn't see the need to question His existence.

When I reached a point of greater intellectual reasoning, I had been brought up in faith, and believed because of everything I had been taught to that point had not challenged what I knew. That is the very basic, concrete reason. But during my faith/religious formation, I had experienced spiritual growth as well. I could be physically alone and feel God's presence. I knew He existed because I could feel Him near me, and I could see His influence in my life and in the lives of those around me.

I think maybe those who do not as easily recognize God's presence have a harder time understanding, as the strength of my faith stems from such an intangible thing as feeling Him near me.

So I suppose, to summarize my longwinded and rather confusing answer above: I believe because I was first taught to believe, and later, because I felt it was the truth. If I did not feel it was the truth, I would have had a much harder time accepting what I was taught.

My second set of questions, if anyone will be so good as to answer, revolve around why you felt the need to pick a religion to accompany your belief in God. Just because you believed in a higher power, why did you then choose Christianity as opposed to any other single-deity religion? Why do you believe in the bible? What I'm reallytrying to say is, is there a reason you felt you needed a religion or holy book to accompany your accepted higher power?

I was taught the importance of my religion basically at the same time I learned about God. As with most religions, the importance of community is inherent. Otherwise we would not gather every week or however often. I am also under no illusions that I have all the answers to God and spirituality. Not that I'm saying organized religions have all the answers either, but I know I can learn from them. Finally, in my case, I need my religion to celebrate the Eucharist.

As for the Bible, I think it is important because it was inspired by God (meaning He spoke through people), and if one believes in God, the Bible is at least of some interest.

Anyway, I'm not sure if my responses helped you at all, but hopefully there was something you were looking for. :)
 
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heron

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This detracts from your question a bit, but since you started with "rational" in your question, I wanted to point out that many many scientists are Christians, and many Christians are highly intellectual.

You have been extremely decent in your approach, so I'm not trying to make this a battle... but just to reassure you, take a look at this creation science link for a list of PhD's.... intelligent design proponents off to the right side column.

http://www.creationdigest.com/Archives.htm

But -- your question was more personal.

My transition came out of a realization, and the voice/sensation connection came later. The more I study both God's ways and general information, the more sense it makes.

I know that can happen in cults too, lol, so I will retain a bit of humility and admit that I am susceptible to making facts fit how I want them to... but the logic has accompanied nearly every phase of my faith walk.


 
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LesleyDuckworth

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Addressing your question, why do I believe in a higher power? Or why do I believe in God? That's simple. Because He's there! And I have much proof in my everyday life. To just give you a quick example. Prayer. Namely, answered prayer. How else can you explain a group of people getting together and praying for something that probably won't happen but yet it happens anyway? Over and over and over? After awhile, you can't shrug things off as coincidence anymore right?

Did I just explain that in a way that others can understand? If I didn't, I can try to make myself a little more clear! :)
Lesley in NC
 
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halfling

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There are times when I, even as a Christian, struggle with accepting the existence of a higher power. I believe it's natural. Trying to explain God from a non-Christian viewpoint only confuses me and muddles things. When Jesus is in the picture, everything becomes much clearer. Rationalizing an invisible being feels illogical to me, but believing in a life that changed the world and fulfilled prophecy provides more tangible and solid proof.
 
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Lisa0315

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Addressing your question, why do I believe in a higher power? Or why do I believe in God? That's simple. Because He's there! And I have much proof in my everyday life. To just give you a quick example. Prayer. Namely, answered prayer. How else can you explain a group of people getting together and praying for something that probably won't happen but yet it happens anyway? Over and over and over? After awhile, you can't shrug things off as coincidence anymore right?

Did I just explain that in a way that others can understand? If I didn't, I can try to make myself a little more clear! :)
Lesley in NC

Hi Lesley. Another Tarheel right here. You explained yourself quite well.

Lisa
 
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Bondman

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How's this all going for you, IA? Answers helping, or do you need more, or different?

Best wishes!

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katallasso

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Thank you both for your reply.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is not necessarily Christian related. Although I am an atheist, I think the part of your faith I find easiest to understand is a desire to believe in a higher power. Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?


I believe God reveals Himself to man, we don't of ourselves suddenly get an understanding of who He is.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1Cr 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Cr 15:23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The Father knows His creation and when the time is right for Him to reveal Himself.
 
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CShephard53

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Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?
Because it's really sweet to have someone greater that can make your life count for something that is bigger than this world.
My second set of questions, if anyone will be so good as to answer, revolve around why you felt the need to pick a religion to accompany your belief in God. Just because you believed in a higher power, why did you then choose Christianity as opposed to any other single-deity religion? Why do you believe in the bible? What I'm reallytrying to say is, is there a reason you felt you needed a religion or holy book to accompany your accepted higher power?
Oooo, getting tougher. I like your thinking.
First of all, there is no concrete and reliable evidence to deny that Jesus was a real person that lived a real life and died a real death and came back from death after three days. I'm not even talking with the Bible, although that is certainly a credible source. Why? Well, just talking the NT alone, there are 24,000 manuscripts to it. But that doesn't mean a thing unless they are credible, consistant, and noncontradictory. They are credible because there are extrabiblical witnesses, as well as biblical witnesses that attest to Jesus' life. These sources are credible because there has been no scholarly accepted evidence to the contrary.

For those of you quoting Bible verses and saying 'because I was taught that way', I would like to encourage you to find a better way to defend your faith. Those arguments do not hold up with any thinking person that does not believe. Sure, it'll convince children, but that's about it. I'm not trying to be rude. However, Peter tells us to have a defense ready for those who ask. Paul reasoned from Scripture, no doubt using more than Scripture to back his arguments. Jesus Himself used logic to support His arguments. But that's getting off topic. Most thinking people outside of Christianity look for more than a 'the Bible told me so' answer. Personalize your faith more.

I hope that sufficiantly answers the original questions of the OP. I appreciate them. Email me at jawsmetroid@yahoo.com if you want to continue a discussion.
 
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Because it's really sweet to have someone greater that can make your life count for something that is bigger than this world.

Oooo, getting tougher. I like your thinking.
First of all, there is no concrete and reliable evidence to deny that Jesus was a real person that lived a real life and died a real death and came back from death after three days. I'm not even talking with the Bible, although that is certainly a credible source. Why? Well, just talking the NT alone, there are 24,000 manuscripts to it. But that doesn't mean a thing unless they are credible, consistant, and noncontradictory. They are credible because there are extrabiblical witnesses, as well as biblical witnesses that attest to Jesus' life. These sources are credible because there has been no scholarly accepted evidence to the contrary.

For those of you quoting Bible verses and saying 'because I was taught that way', I would like to encourage you to find a better way to defend your faith. Those arguments do not hold up with any thinking person that does not believe. Sure, it'll convince children, but that's about it. I'm not trying to be rude. However, Peter tells us to have a defense ready for those who ask. Paul reasoned from Scripture, no doubt using more than Scripture to back his arguments. Jesus Himself used logic to support His arguments. But that's getting off topic. Most thinking people outside of Christianity look for more than a 'the Bible told me so' answer. Personalize your faith more.

I hope that sufficiantly answers the original questions of the OP. I appreciate them. Email me at jawsmetroid@yahoo.com if you want to continue a discussion.
Excellent post!

Whether 'off-topic' or not, the point that jawsmetriod was making that today we need what I'll call 'hard evidence' for unbelievers it totally pertinent and totally correct. Anything less they will simply ignore! Sad, but that's how it is.

Heavenly blessings to all here!


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Lisa0315

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Honestly...No amount of discussion, evidence, or even proof will persuade anyone.

It is good for us to do as Christians because it keeps us studying. However, only the Holy Spirit will ever convict or convince anyone.

Lisa
 
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Sojourner<><

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Hello, all.
First of all I'd like to say a few things. I am an atheist now, but I was once agnostic and briefly held Chrisitian beliefs. I have questioned my own spirituality and existance extensively and I do not believe there is a God. However, that does not mean I am here to ridicule you.
As a scientist, and as a non-believer, I want to ask a few questions to a Christian. I do this to try and understand why you have come to the conclusions you have, and hopefully to gain insight to your way of life.
I do not want to mock your beliefs, nor try and change them; in return, I hope you will give me the same respect by not attempting to sway my own beliefs.
If anyone here regards themselves as rational, adult and comfortable with their own beliefs, please post in this thread or send me a Private Message to get my contact details.
I'm looking for people who are strong believers but also have thought about possibilities outside of Christianity. Hopefully we can learn a lot from one another!
Many thanks, Ben :)

Hey Ben. What's up? I might be able to answer a few questions.
 
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CShephard53

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Honestly...No amount of discussion, evidence, or even proof will persuade anyone.
I'm not talking about persuading. I'm talking about meeting people where they are at and 'becoming all things to all men so that by all means I might save some' (1 Cor. 9:22). I'm aware that I have a limited job. But why not take that job to the next level by doing it the best I can?

Anyway...
 
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Bondman

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Honestly...No amount of discussion, evidence, or even proof will persuade anyone.

It is good for us to do as Christians because it keeps us studying. However, only the Holy Spirit will ever convict or convince anyone.

Lisa
Quite true, Lisa. I suppose the point we were making is that there are two parts to evangelism: ours and Gods. We need to speak the Gospel the best way we can (to at least get their attention) - and then the Holy Spirit can use our words to bring conviction, and hopefully conversion.

Sadly I do have to say that my experience of today's unbelievers is rather like that of Paul's on Mars Hill (Acts 17:22ff), maybe even a bit worse... But I do take comfort in the fact that a few did act from Paul's preaching!

Bless you!


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Lisa0315

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Quite true, Lisa. I suppose the point we were making is that there are two parts to evangelism: ours and Gods. We need to speak the Gospel the best way we can (to at least get their attention) - and then the Holy Spirit can use our words to bring conviction, and hopefully conversion.

Sadly I do have to say that my experience of today's unbelievers is rather like that of Paul's on Mars Hill (Acts 17:22ff), maybe even a bit worse... But I do take comfort in the fact that a few did act from Paul's preaching!

Bless you!


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• Jesus DIED for our sin. • God FORGAVE all our sin. • Then He FORGOT all our sin!

I agree 100%!
 
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childofGod31

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I personally believe that "faith is a gift from God". That only people "whom God draws" will come to Him.

JOH 6:65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

That's why "faith" just happens. Faith comes from hearing. ROM 10:17 You hear things, and you just believe. Because God enabled you to believe.

God also responds to prayers sometimes in a very very convincing ways.

If you study creation from a Christian point of view, you will see that there are also a lot of "proof" in nature. (For example, animals didn't evolve from one to another, but the bones were found of primitive and of complicated animals at the same layers, which meant they lived at the same time.) And "missing links" are still missing (because they were never there...)

I was a Christian from childhood, but when I grew up, I studied the Bible for myself, objectively. And I am convinced that all the other religions are wrong and so I don't feel like trying them.
 
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tapero

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Honestly...No amount of discussion, evidence, or even proof will persuade anyone.

It is good for us to do as Christians because it keeps us studying. However, only the Holy Spirit will ever convict or convince anyone.

Lisa

Hi, some need evidence, proof (thomas), many need discussion, and Paul taught us to persuade several times in the bible through his testimonies to non believers.

I don't think Thomas was different from other in his need, and so there are those who do need evidence and proof, and come to Christ by such.

I believe the Holy Spirit calls all men always, not just at certain times. And will do so until their death.

Why I heard is beyond me, but I did.

11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
27King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do."
28Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?" 29Paul replied, "Short time or long&#8212;I pray God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains
.

Blessings,
tapero
 
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Bondman

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Hi, some need evidence, proof (thomas), many need discussion, and Paul taught us to persuade several times in the bible through his testimonies to non believers.

I don't think Thomas was different from other in his need, and so there are those who do need evidence and proof, and come to Christ by such.

I believe the Holy Spirits calls all men always, not just at certain times. And will do so until their death.

Why I heard is beyond me, but I did.


.

Blessings,
tapero
Love this post, tapero! Great Scriptures!!

"Why I heard is beyond me, but I did." Me too!!!!

- Bondman (ministering the Good News of the Gospel)

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John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another;
as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
 
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Hi, I probably have a different perspective than most Christians because I came from a scientific/Objectivist background and then became Christian afterwards... So I can probably answer a lot of questions other Christians cannot answer because I used to be an Atheist myself and know all the arguments I used to use against God!

As for why I believe in God, and why I believe specifically in Christ... I believe in God because I can prove God, and I believe in Jesus because what Jesus (allegedly) said makes sense to me. Of course, I cannot prove that the miracles of Jesus are real historical events, but I'm willing to believe that they were real because the message of Christ is so elegant. If Jesus comes back, then I guess we'll all know for sure! But how much better to believe in what Jesus said about love, without having seen a miracle to prove that we should love each other.

Logic compels me to believe what I do because, having seen the logical inferrences, it would be irrational to believe otherwise. Of course, I used to think that Christians were the irrational ones (and in fact, the vast majority of them *are* irrational, but then again the vast majority of them are finger-pointers who love the government and who don't listen to anything Jesus actually said). After studying all the arguments more carefully, I've decided that the scientific/atheistic side just does not have as much reason as they think they do. You'd probably agree if you saw some of the arguments I've seen, but it's hard to present them all at once, since it's such a huge subject.
 
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Digit

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Hiya Ben,

First I need to apologise for abandoning your thread. I actually just forgot about it, and then saw it in my subscription list the other day. So that was my fault, didn't mean to make you think I just couldn't be bothered. So sorry about that.

Those of you that said you were called or spoken to by God/Jesus, could you please try and clarify for me? Are we talking voices in your head, a desire you did not have before, or something else?

I don't subscribe to the 'voices in your head' line of thinking in this regard. For me it's more about revelations. For example, I could pray about something in particular, being specific about my question and asking God to show me His Will. The time frame for an answer is always varied, you cannot set your own deadline for these things, and also you will not always get what you want. But on the instances I've felt God talk to me, I've had a revelation about my problem. Something I never thought of, or something I've never felt before. Perhaps I was stubbornly rigid about a certain event, and refused to back down, after praying about it I felt all resistance melt away and knew that God wanted me to do this thing. Or alternatively, I suddenly had an idea that would not only solve my issue, but make everyone happy at the same time. I guess it sounds a little odd like that, but it's very much about compulsion for me. I feel drawn to areas, to tasks, to events, to people and unless I follow that compulsion, my life feels very, very wrong. Almost like butterflies in your stomach, something is not at ease, you aren't at peace, even though nothing is outwardly wrong.

My second set of questions, if anyone will be so good as to answer, revolve around why you felt the need to pick a religion to accompany your belief in God. Just because you believed in a higher power, why did you then choose Christianity as opposed to any other single-deity religion?
I think for me at least, the order is reversed. I didn't believe in a higher power and then choose Christianity, I chose Christianity to believe in a higher power. In fact, looking back, I would say I was firmly chosen by God, as if it was just my time to put things right. Like God had left me alone for a while, and then decided to tap me on the shoulder and ask, "How about now?".

Why do you believe in the bible?
The Bible for me, is a manual for life. It teaches me reasons for everything to do with relationships with other souls, and tells me of dangers and warnings too. I believe in the Bible, because I believe in God, and God has said that He is the author. When I read areas of the Bible, I am amazed that they can almost appear so simply in wording, yet have such deep meaning. I believe it to be unflawed, perfect, just like God. I cannot fathom that it is man-created, as we cannot make something so flawless, and so future-proof. I mean, look at Lord of the Rings. How many years did it take to make it? How many thousands of people, how many millions of dollars, yet you can watch it, and not 2 hours in (to the 12 hour trilogy), there is a continuity error. How would man possibly create something that can last 2000 years without error? I know this is disputed by Atheists and other non-believers, however many of the so called issues are translation issues, from the Hebrew and Greek. It's translated by man, and as such, has mortal errors. It's quite amazing how we just touch something, and make mistakes, it's a shame people are so hung up on them. But anyway, I think that gives a good indication why I believe it. Also recently I've done a Marriage Preparation course, and it was all backed up by scripture, and it's incredible what you can learn from it. No wonder so many marriages fail, without this teaching, it made so many things clear to me. Not that I think my marriage has a 100% chance of success, as once again, we are both mortal, and imperfect, but it's got a great foundation to move forward on. :)

What I'm really trying to say is, is there a reason you felt you needed a religion or holy book to accompany your accepted higher power?
Well as I explained, I didn't believe in a God, and then choose the corresponding God-peripherals. ;) To me it's all one package, I felt drawn to it, I felt a hole in my life and I was scared to even start considering Christianity, but I guess the more I exposed myself to it, the less scared I was, and the more excited I was to find out that the hole was no longer there, it was replaced with all this information about a wonderous God, who I can have a personal relationship with.

Thanks again,
Ben

No problems, again apologies for forgetting about your thread. :)

Digit
 
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salida

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In....Athiest--

Feel free to email me as I'm a scientist too and I can give you very rational and logicals reasons why I'm. Its a spiritual decision first and an intellectual one second.

The Bible has overwhelming evidence that supports it - this isn't my opinion but its like saying that gravity is my opinion. It exists no matter what I think about it. Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (are facts that would stand up in a court of law concerning Bible). Another great book is Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (was once an athiest but now a christian).

In addition, science and faith are compatible: www.reasons.org is a great site. The guy who created it has a PhD in Chemistry.
 
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