Questions for a rational Christian.

[InquizitiveAtheist]

Hello, all.
First of all I'd like to say a few things. I am an atheist now, but I was once agnostic and briefly held Chrisitian beliefs. I have questioned my own spirituality and existance extensively and I do not believe there is a God. However, that does not mean I am here to ridicule you.
As a scientist, and as a non-believer, I want to ask a few questions to a Christian. I do this to try and understand why you have come to the conclusions you have, and hopefully to gain insight to your way of life.
I do not want to mock your beliefs, nor try and change them; in return, I hope you will give me the same respect by not attempting to sway my own beliefs.
If anyone here regards themselves as rational, adult and comfortable with their own beliefs, please post in this thread or send me a Private Message to get my contact details.
I'm looking for people who are strong believers but also have thought about possibilities outside of Christianity. Hopefully we can learn a lot from one another!
Many thanks, Ben

 

[Digit]

Hi IA,

I am not sure I fit the bill, I never really thought of options outside Christianity, except to say I didn't explore any options at all. For 28 years or so I was a non-believer in the sense that I didn't have a belief. But that being said I would happily give you some time.

Fire away.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[Lisa0315]

Hello, all.
First of all I'd like to say a few things. I am an atheist now, but I was once agnostic and briefly held Chrisitian beliefs. I have questioned my own spirituality and existance extensively and I do not believe there is a God. However, that does not mean I am here to ridicule you.
As a scientist, and as a non-believer, I want to ask a few questions to a Christian. I do this to try and understand why you have come to the conclusions you have, and hopefully to gain insight to your way of life.
I do not want to mock your beliefs, nor try and change them; in return, I hope you will give me the same respect by not attempting to sway my own beliefs.
If anyone here regards themselves as rational, adult and comfortable with their own beliefs, please post in this thread or send me a Private Message to get my contact details.
I'm looking for people who are strong believers but also have thought about possibilities outside of Christianity. Hopefully we can learn a lot from one another!
Many thanks, Ben

Hi Ben,

You are most welcome here. I am a strong believer who has asked the same questions as many atheist prior to my conversion. I do understand the point of view, and I would love to have a lively conversation with you. However, I cannot promise to not try to persuade you to believe in Jesus Christ. It is part of my job description!

So, what do you want to talk about first?

Lisa

 

[InquizitiveAtheist]

Thank you both for your reply.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is not necessarily Christian related. Although I am an atheist, I think the part of your faith I find easiest to understand is a desire to believe in a higher power. Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?

 

[Lisa0315]

Thank you both for your reply.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is not necessarily Christian related. Although I am an atheist, I think the part of your faith I find easiest to understand is a desire to believe in a higher power. Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?

Good question, and one I don't think I have answered before.

I would definitely say it is because I was TAUGHT to believe in God. In fact, I believed that so strongly, that I refused to allow my children to attend church rather than have them be "brainwashed".

Yet, I never doubted the existence of God, just the fairness of the one I had been taught about. I was constantly seeking and finding fault with what I had been taught.

Honestly, pre-conversion, I believed there was a God because I had been taught it. Post-conversion, I believe because of my experiences. I had something of a Damascus experience, which resulted in my conversion. After that though, the presence of God in my life is nearly tangible. I do not know any other way to describe it. It has to be experienced, but it cannot be tested by any physical means.

Lisa

 

[Key]

Hello Ben.

I have not introduced myself before, but I hope that I can offer you some insight into what you are seeking to learn.

To answer your question as to why believe in God?

I for a great many years, believed in things like Luck, just random chaos, and "Things happen" but never could explain why they happen.

What makes the seemingly impossible, or even the massively improbable, plausible?

It is something, that we can not really explain, something that we never could, but equally also for many of us, never tried. We just accepted that "Things happen" some people just have "bad luck" others have "good luck" but, what is... luck. Where does things like this come from. What controls the Chaos of our live, we know what controls the order, we know how the order and the methods happen, how the laws of physics and nature act upon us, this we grasp, but what about the chaos around us, the things we take for granted most of the time in our lives.

When I fit that into my life, I came to the conclusion, not that there is a higher power, but that there is something "more" then what we have, something that we can not gauge and measure, and that opened the door for God to enter my life.

Hope that helps.

God Bless

Key.

 

[Digit]

Thank you both for your reply.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is not necessarily Christian related. Although I am an atheist, I think the part of your faith I find easiest to understand is a desire to believe in a higher power. Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?

Heya,

I think along with Lisa I never really doubted the existence of God, I just wasn't interested in Him. He got in the way of my life and I didn't like that. What Kev has mentioned rings true with me too, as looking around the world, at all the things in it, I cannot believe that chance, has created something like this. With so many wonderous things and puzzles to unravel, with humans being so different yet so well suited to this planet. Perhaps because of my work, I can see the 'designer' in all of this.

Those were both small reasons I think. As is this, but equally important, because after learning more about Christianity, and learning that nothing we know currently contradicts it outright, it's all down to interpretation, that was probably the most exciting day of my life when I realised that suddenly it was all possible.

Lastly, and the sole reason I believe as strongly as I do now, is because of what I feel. After learning more about Christianity, and after accepting God into my life, I can't say I felt a great instant change. But the days afterwards, and the months and now the years and really, I feel like a new person. I feel equipped to handle anything, I am no longer angry, I no longer have a hole in my life that I couldn't fill with anything no matter what I tried.

Essentially, I feel God in my life. I believe it to be God as opposed to Laurence the Magic Pink Teapot, because the way I feel rings true with what is written in the Bible. I believe it to be God because he's left a manual for life, with lessons on every subject and I've screwed up so many times in the past, and suffered all the consequences laid out therin, emotionally, spiritually and physically. I believe it to be God because all these things reconciled together, there is no room for another option in my life, and because when I pray, I see differences. Outside people see coincidences, I see answers.

Digit

 

[tapero]

Thank you both for your reply.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is not necessarily Christian related. Although I am an atheist, I think the part of your faith I find easiest to understand is a desire to believe in a higher power. Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?

Hi, I was not raised with any faith or religion and at age 33 knew nothing about God. Christians that were super happy made me ill etc.

However, when a man tried to kill me, (he was high on acid), I got away and was crying and for some reason screamed out God help me. It was shortly after that, within weeks, I attended a Christian funeral where I heard the gospel, which then led me to go to the church of the pastor's that did the funeral and then i answered two simple questions. Did I commit my life to Jesus, and would I die for Jesus.

That day I was born again, or new. My eyes were opened, and instantly at that time, I knew it was truth, that God was truth and Jesus was truth.

So, the reason that I believe in a higher power, is that while in an unbeliving state, I called on God, God called me and for some reason I heard.

thanks for the question.
tapero

 

[Eph429]

Hi, allow me to introduce myself, I am MuchLoved. The reason why I believe in God, as being the Higher Power? I heard the Lord call me. I grew up in an athiest home, all through my life I did not believe in God, did not even want to hear His name. I even told a friend of my mine, who happened to be a Christian, not to talk "religion" to me, I was very anti. I couldn't stand the "happy clappies", they were a bunch of weirdo's.

8 Years ago, when Jesus called my name, I answered, I couldn't deny His existence after that. He is as real to me as the air that I breath. It's as simple as that.

I pray you hear Him calling your name.

Muchloved
J

 

[InquizitiveAtheist]

Again, I thank you all for your replies.

Those who say they were initially taught to believe in God, or believed because that was what everybody else did, I can empathize with. It's a common tale, and I think it explains why although 70% of people in the UK said they were Chrisitian in the last consensus, only 5% regularly attended church services. People tend to be non-practicing Christians by default in this country, only a few truly believe or come to believe over time. It is easier for the rest to accept the status-quo than to question themselves about what they believe.

Those of you that said you were called or spoken to by God/Jesus, could you please try and clarify for me? Are we talking voices in your head, a desire you did not have before, or something else?

My second set of questions, if anyone will be so good as to answer, revolve around why you felt the need to pick a religion to accompany your belief in God. Just because you believed in a higher power, why did you then choose Christianity as opposed to any other single-deity religion? Why do you believe in the bible? What I'm reallytrying to say is, is there a reason you felt you needed a religion or holy book to accompany your accepted higher power?

Thanks again,
Ben

 

[OldChurchGuy]

Again, I thank you all for your replies.

Those who say they were initially taught to believe in God, or believed because that was what everybody else did, I can empathize with. It's a common tale, and I think it explains why although 70% of people in the UK said they were Chrisitian in the last consensus, only 5% regularly attended church services. People tend to be non-practicing Christians by default in this country, only a few truly believe or come to believe over time. It is easier for the rest to accept the status-quo than to question themselves about what they believe.

Those of you that said you were called or spoken to by God/Jesus, could you please try and clarify for me? Are we talking voices in your head, a desire you did not have before, or something else?

My second set of questions, if anyone will be so good as to answer, revolve around why you felt the need to pick a religion to accompany your belief in God. Just because you believed in a higher power, why did you then choose Christianity as opposed to any other single-deity religion? Why do you believe in the bible? What I'm reallytrying to say is, is there a reason you felt you needed a religion or holy book to accompany your accepted higher power?

Thanks again,
Ben

An interesting set of questions. Regarding the earlier questions, I am in agreement with those who had trouble deciding the known universe was the result of random chance.

For me, choosing Christianity was simply because I was not exposed to any other religion. I have led an adult Sunday School class on comparing religions so know enough about other religions to be dangerous. Based on this cursory study, I found parallels with Christianity and differences. But none of them caused me to want to abandon Christianity. Perhaps because I am too comfortable with Christianity to want to change. Who knows?

For me, the Bible is a collection of writings written by many unknown authors over many centuries all trying to explain the same idea which is: "This is what it is like to know God". I believe we are the sum of our experiences and we interpret the present based on our past experiences. Therefore, accepting the variety of stories describing God in both the Hebrew Bible (aka the Old Testament) and the New Testament [a God of vengance, a God of wrath, a God with a sense of humor, a God of grace, to name a few] is much easier and there is no need to harmonize or gloss over stories we may find disturbing [the destruction of Jericho and Ai or the great flood, for example].

A little more wordy response than I intended. Thanks for the opportunity.

OldChurchGuy

 

[indagroove]

Hi,

I'll add my thoughts.

I once thought there were options.

At age 21 - I was atheist.
At age 30 - I was agnostic.
At age 40 - I had seen the works of God in my life.
At age 44 - God revealed himself to me.

Jesus is my Lord. He saved me from certain death. He saved me from myself.

God Bless.

 

[MikeMcK]

Thank you both for your reply.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is not necessarily Christian related. Although I am an atheist, I think the part of your faith I find easiest to understand is a desire to believe in a higher power. Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?

Paul, in his letter to the Romans, tells us that God has revealed Himself to all men so that no man will be able to say, "I didn't know" when they stand before God.

He has revealed Himself to us by two witnesses.

The first is the external witness of creation that testifies that there is a Creator.

You seem like a reasonable guy. Surely, you must know that the house you're sitting in right now didn't just appear out of nowhere.

You wouldn't say that lightning hit a tree and caused the tree to splinter into 2x4 lumber and those 2x4 just happened to connect themselves to make a frame, would you?

Or that leaves fell on the frame and evolved into shingles, right?

Of course not!

You know that a house is much too complex and orderly to have happened by chance and that there must have been an architect to design it and a builder to build it.

So, if you know that, then why on Earth would you believe that the Universe, which is infinitely more complex and orderly, just sprang from nothing?

You can look at the stars and the oceans and the trees and the complexity of life and your brain knows, "Hey, there had to be somebody to put this all together!"

The second witness God has used to reveal Himself is the conscience that testifies to us that we've broken God's laws.

Each of us has a conscience. You immediately know when you've done something wrong.

The Bible tells us that we were created to show creation the communicable attributes of God. This is why we get angry at injustice, because God is just and gets angry at injustice. This is why we feel compassion for those who are suffering, because God is compassionate for those who suffer. This is why we are creative, because God is creative. Why we love, because God is loving. And so on.

This all happens through the conscience. Likewise, when we sin, there is something in our conscience that instinctively knows that we've sinned.

I hope this doesn't seem like I'm rambling. These things really do tie together.

Third, the Bible explains to us in John 3 that God has already revealed the truth to us but that it is in our nature to reject it because we have a sin nature and our default setting is to serve that sin nature and not God.

I was talking to a scholar, who's opinion I trust greatly, and he explained to me that the language in the passage describes this rejection of the truth as a man struggling in vain against a trap he can't free himself from.

 

[Lisa0315]

Again, I thank you all for your replies.

Those who say they were initially taught to believe in God, or believed because that was what everybody else did, I can empathize with. It's a common tale, and I think it explains why although 70% of people in the UK said they were Chrisitian in the last consensus, only 5% regularly attended church services. People tend to be non-practicing Christians by default in this country, only a few truly believe or come to believe over time. It is easier for the rest to accept the status-quo than to question themselves about what they believe.

Those of you that said you were called or spoken to by God/Jesus, could you please try and clarify for me? Are we talking voices in your head, a desire you did not have before, or something else?

My second set of questions, if anyone will be so good as to answer, revolve around why you felt the need to pick a religion to accompany your belief in God. Just because you believed in a higher power, why did you then choose Christianity as opposed to any other single-deity religion? Why do you believe in the bible? What I'm reallytrying to say is, is there a reason you felt you needed a religion or holy book to accompany your accepted higher power?

Thanks again,
Ben

I had something of a Damascus experience. I had a vision of sorts. I did not see God, but I saw myself as God saw me. It is kind of hard to explain. I spent the next two days trying to get back to "normal", but in the end I got on my knees and repented.

As for why I picked the Christian religion...I suppose it was natural for me to assume the religion of my childhood. My experience reflected the Christian teachings of my youth. I actually never questioned it until you asked the question.

Lisa

 

[Eph429]

Hey there. Every one of us, whether you believe or not, is aware of God. We are made in His image, how can we not be aware of Him. People seeking a Higher Power and find other religions or gods, still have a void, that only the Spirit of God can fill.

I knew that Jesus was real, because the moment I gave my life to Him, I was attacked, and I mean literally attacked by satan and his demons, for a period of time. Because I no longer belonged to him, he wanted me to doubt my sanity, so I thought, Jesus had to be real, because here was a struggle for my soul, I just knew that.

I was so aware of my sinful life, where I was, what I had been doing, that I just simply had to turn away from it.

It was not voices in my head, LOL, it was a still small voice deep within me, that my spirit recognised. Recognised as the Higher Power that created me, that had His hand over my life, even when I wasn't aware of Him.

MuchLoved
J

 

[MelissaShae]

I am a christian and was raised to with the awareness of God, however it was not a big deal and not talked about a lot in my home. When my husband and I got together he asked me repeatedly to go to church and one day I had such a strong urge to go as if God was calling me to church. I didn't really hear a voice, it was more of a feeling. Ever since that day in church, I have decided to live my life as a Christian. I decided to become a Christian because I couldn't deny God's word and that my debt was paid on the cross by Jesus Christ. I am a totally different person now that I have been saved. For myself, christianity is the only religion that makes sense to me and I feel such a presence of God when I read or hear his word spoken.

 

[Everlasting]

Many people do not feel that God speaks to them. God continually watches us, and hopes that we will make the right decisions in our lives. When we begin our journey; stumbling blocks and evil can cloud our way, thereby shattering our dreams. It is from that point your spirit, heart and soul have to decide. When you feel at your lowest point, Satan would like no more; than for you to curse the name of God. But if at your lowest point, you turn to God, admit that Satan has a hold on your life, and devote your heart to him, He will answer you in volumes. With dedication and devotion, all things are possible.

Science is an intriguing aspect of our universe. I have debated evolution, science, technology and faith, until the cows come home. Because God is infinate. We might think we are headed down a road; that makes all of the difference in the world. Only to find the road is a dead end. Science can only assume what the universe has placed in front of them; which is God's handiwork. We know not the hour he will come.

In life, as with science, we can only speculate the possible outcomes. Where is our stability in all of this instability?

God

Everlasting

Bible Inspired Author
Christian Science Fiction Novel
Moon Over Key Biscayne
booksandmore.4t.com

 

[BigNorsk]

Hello, all.
First of all I'd like to say a few things. I am an atheist now, but I was once agnostic and briefly held Chrisitian beliefs. I have questioned my own spirituality and existance extensively and I do not believe there is a God. However, that does not mean I am here to ridicule you.
As a scientist, and as a non-believer, I want to ask a few questions to a Christian. I do this to try and understand why you have come to the conclusions you have, and hopefully to gain insight to your way of life.
I do not want to mock your beliefs, nor try and change them; in return, I hope you will give me the same respect by not attempting to sway my own beliefs.
If anyone here regards themselves as rational, adult and comfortable with their own beliefs, please post in this thread or send me a Private Message to get my contact details.
I'm looking for people who are strong believers but also have thought about possibilities outside of Christianity. Hopefully we can learn a lot from one another!
Many thanks, Ben

Hey, great, denial is the first step to salvation, you are on your way.

I went through a process at one time where I literally threw everything out and started over. First question-is there a god. I ended up with yes. Second question-would god reveal himself. Again I ended up with yes. Then it was who is he.

Found a lot of religions. Most don't even claim to be god or anything like god. Just a morality or philosophy. So based on my first two answers, they went away. Then there were the ones that claimed to reveal god. Well most of them are little more than jokes.

I ended up with Jesus and that Jesus did indeed claim to be God and he backed it up.

The evidence is out there if you desire to find it. I can't walk that walk for you.

What I do find though is that people want to take all sorts of side trips and issues.

For instance, you, as a scientist might want to take a literal 6 day view of creation and then say how can I believe, the evidence is against it. But creation really isn't the focus of the bible, Jesus is. And if he is God, then what he says is the truth, though maybe we shouldn't always just take the literal scientific interpretation, especially say of creation when you have to realize it is the story of creation as told to a shepherd thousands of years ago. Quantum mechanics it's not.

Anyway, that's a little about me, and I do have to say that I'm willing to let certain tensions ride without worrying too much about them. Kind of fits in with Lutheranism where is scripture alone man, not rationalization or men or experience or feelings that is relied upon.

Marv

 

[BigNorsk]

Thank you both for your reply.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is not necessarily Christian related. Although I am an atheist, I think the part of your faith I find easiest to understand is a desire to believe in a higher power. Without being specific to Christianity, if at all possible, could you explain to me why you believe in a God or a higher power?

Actually, the christian faith teaches that man does not desire a higher power. The natural man resists God.

The only way one can believe is because it is a gift from God. But one can reject the gift.

The basic answer as to why is that the evidence is that Jesus exists and that he did what the bible says he did. Why wouldn't you accept someone who could raise the dead and come back from the dead?

See we can do a lot of things but no one has been able to control life.

And even the big bang crowd, they can explain everything with their equations, except the beginning. That doesn't work.

There also is clearly supernatural things that happen. Now some people's criteria for that is pretty low, but really just this week I was talking to a guy who was thrown from a truck in an accident and he broke the highline pole, yet walked away with no injuries.

Do the math, it's not possible to exert that much force with a body and not damage it. Yet there he goes, walking just fine.

The most miraculous thing that I've ever seen is when someone comes to faith in God. It's impossible you know, there is just no way for a rational human being to really believe. Yet they do. A miracle.

Marv

 

[BigNorsk]

Again, I thank you all for your replies.

Those who say they were initially taught to believe in God, or believed because that was what everybody else did, I can empathize with. It's a common tale, and I think it explains why although 70% of people in the UK said they were Chrisitian in the last consensus, only 5% regularly attended church services. People tend to be non-practicing Christians by default in this country, only a few truly believe or come to believe over time. It is easier for the rest to accept the status-quo than to question themselves about what they believe.

Those of you that said you were called or spoken to by God/Jesus, could you please try and clarify for me? Are we talking voices in your head, a desire you did not have before, or something else?

My second set of questions, if anyone will be so good as to answer, revolve around why you felt the need to pick a religion to accompany your belief in God. Just because you believed in a higher power, why did you then choose Christianity as opposed to any other single-deity religion? Why do you believe in the bible? What I'm reallytrying to say is, is there a reason you felt you needed a religion or holy book to accompany your accepted higher power?

Thanks again,
Ben

That picking a religion is a bit hard to explain. See it's more like you are the one picked. You study, you look, you compare. Most are like something hung together with bailing twine and duct tape, really weak, I don't know how people go for that stuff.

Christianity seems like that. It doesn't make any sense at all, it's all like one story after another of the impossible happening. And then something changes and it make sense. Oh maybe not every detail at first but you start to see the pattern.

Maybe you as a scientist have tried to find a pattern isn something when the pattern is not obvious and then when you found it, it was so simple, it's right there, how could you miss it?

Well, the bible, is kind of like that.

It's scary in a way. People will be saying what does this mean, what does that mean, this doesn't make sense, and you can look at them and what's going through your mind is that it's right there, how can you miss it? It all fits so perfectly.

Same sort of thing as when the experienced scientist is teaching a bunch of beginners. And they don't get it, at least not at first. It really takes awhile to think as a scientist and there is a different way of thinking peculiar to a Christian.

Don't know if that really answers it but basically it is not we chose but we were chosen.

Marv