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LDS Questions and Answers

Rescued One

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Non-Mormon:
Do you deny that one would be barred from getting a temple recommend if he/she did not keep the Word of Wisdom(no coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco)? Do you deny that one has to be a tithe payer to get a temple recommend? Do you deny that one has to be deemed worthy in order to get a temple recommend?

Mormon:
Those seem pretty accurate. A temple recommend interview is largely the member evaluating their own worthiness. I wonder if you would allow a preacher in your church or a Sunday school teacher who worshiped the devil? What about a child abuser? Do you not have any standards for the persons who perform some of the most important duties in your church?

Comments?
 

RoseCrystal

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My biggest issue with the temple recommend is that tithing is mandatory to get one. In the LDS faith if you aren't temple worthy and endowed you can't be in the highest level of heaven (the celestial kingdom) according to LDS theology, this is the only kingdom where God lives.

I dont mind that they have rules on how to live your life you must follow to have a temple recommend, but making one of those rules 10% of your income, I think that's so wrong.

So your choice is basically 10% of your income for ever or no God. Its spiritual blackmail in my opinion. Pay up or no God for you - for eternity
 
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dzheremi

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Did you really just say that?

Why do you so often post these pearl-clutching, monocle-dropping echo (pseudo-)questions in reply to whatever anyone else posts? It doesn't add anything to the conversation, and after noticing it about a half a dozen times it makes it seem like you don't really have anything of substance to say and are just doing it to register how indignant you are that people bring up things you don't like or phrase things in ways that offend your sensibilities.

Did you really just ask this?

Did you really just say that?

Did you really just post that?

Did you really just say that?

:sigh:

Did you really just equate attempted genocide with negative Facebook feedback?

Did you really just say that?

"False"?

Did you really just say that?

Did you really just bring up this case?

We get it. How dare we. Why you never...!

Get a new line already.
 
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Rescued One

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Some people view those who disagree with them as unkind or "out to get them." They can't see any other motive. Every disagreement is viewed as persecution. My siblings are atheists or agnostics. We aren't out to get one another.

I'm not here to make anyone's life miserable. I'm mostly here to let people know what Mormons teach. That isn't an evil thing. I've had people disagree with me or make accusations about me. That also happened to my Savior. I have never encouraged people to hate LDS or say that they aren't nice people.

I think the topics people raise are interesting and worth discussing. Once in a blue moon, someone shows up with misinformation about Mormonism and I try to explain what LDS actually teach, or if it's a teaching that has been abandoned.

In the eighties, my Mormon neighbor trusted me to care for her preschooler.

I'm interested in posting more questions and answers.
 
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Rescued One

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Sometimes LDS haven't learned their own teachings.

Non-Mormon
Do you deny that there are certain requirements you must meet in order to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to take out one's endowments to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to be married for both time and eternity in order to have increase and attain exaltation in the next life?

Mormon

Actually, I do readily deny this.


Now I'll explain:
"Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who so devote themselves to righteousness that they receive the higher ordinances of exaltation become members of the Church of the Firstborn. Baptism is the gate to the [LDS] Church itself, but celestial marriage is the gate to membership in the Church of the Firstborn, the inner circle of faithful saints who are heirs of exaltation and the fullness of the Father's kingdom."
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 139

"Only through celestial marriage can one find the straight way, the narrow path. Eternal life cannot be had in any other way."
Spencer W. Kimball, Marriage --- The Proper Way, New Era, Feb. 1976
https://www.lds.org/new-era/1976/02/marriage-the-proper-way?lang=eng&clang=ase
 
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Ironhold

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Sometimes LDS haven't learned their own teachings.

Non-Mormon
Do you deny that there are certain requirements you must meet in order to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to take out one's endowments to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to be married for both time and eternity in order to have increase and attain exaltation in the next life?

Mormon

Actually, I do readily deny this.


Now I'll explain:
"Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who so devote themselves to righteousness that they receive the higher ordinances of exaltation become members of the Church of the Firstborn. Baptism is the gate to the [LDS] Church itself, but celestial marriage is the gate to membership in the Church of the Firstborn, the inner circle of faithful saints who are heirs of exaltation and the fullness of the Father's kingdom."
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 139

"Only through celestial marriage can one find the straight way, the narrow path. Eternal life cannot be had in any other way."
Spencer W. Kimball, Marriage --- The Proper Way, New Era, Feb. 1976
https://www.lds.org/new-era/1976/02/marriage-the-proper-way?lang=eng&clang=ase

You *do* know that "Mormon Doctrine" isn't an accepted official work, right?

And what Mormons deny the need for temple marriage?
 
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Rescued One

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Post #9: Questions and Answers

Mormon
"Actually, I do readily deny this."

From lds.org:
"Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who so devote themselves to righteousness that they receive the higher ordinances of exaltation become members of the Church of the Firstborn. Baptism is the gate to the [LDS] Church itself, but celestial marriage is the gate to membership in the Church of the Firstborn, the inner circle of faithful saints who are heirs of exaltation and the fullness of the Father's kingdom."
(Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. [1966], 139).

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine...cher-manual-2014/section-3/lesson-80?lang=eng
 
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Rescued One

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What is the reward?

Do you deny that there are certain requirements you must meet in order to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to take out one's endowments to be exalted in the celestial kingdom? Do you deny that it is necessary to be married for both time and eternity in order to have increase and attain exaltation in the next life?

TOm:

Actually, I do readily deny this.
flood of anti-Mormon sentiment
 
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Ironhold

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TOm:

Actually, I do readily deny this.
flood of anti-Mormon sentiment

Did you read the rest of his full statement?

Do you deny that the Moslem man who is born and dies without hearing of Christ is [censored]?

The CoJCoLDS is actually quite revolutionary here. We believe that all will have a “fair and just opportunity” to accept the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This includes this Moslem man and you too. The chance will happen either in this life or after it; however, ones time in this life will still dictate the gifts of God afforded to them by God.


He was re-affirming the LDS theology that while some things are necessary, it won't be held against someone if it doesn't happen in life through no fault of their own.

That's why context is so critical and why critics of the church who insist on doing it usually end up losing the debate.
 
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Rescued One

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This has nothing to do with Islam. It's as off-topic in this thread as it was in that one. We don't lose the debates. I always read the entire replies of those who are not on my ignore list.

No one receives eternal life, according to Mormonism, without a celestial marriage. Not one single person is exempted from obedience to all the commandments. That is why LDS are required to perform sealings for dead people.

Mormonism isn't fair and just --- what a bad joke!

Alma 34
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
(The dead had their chance.)


Alma 40
11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.

12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.

13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.

(Note: Not a word about those in Paradise preaching to those in outer darkness.

Besides which, this life is called the Second Estate and the gods said that this life is the time the gods will prove them them to see if they will obey the commandments.)

15 Now, there are some that have understood that this state of happiness and this state of misery of the soul, before the resurrection, was a first resurrection. Yea, I admit it may be termed a resurrection, the raising of the spirit or the soul and their consignation to happiness or misery, according to the words which have been spoken.

16 And behold, again it hath been spoken, that there is a first resurrection, a resurrection of all those who have been, or who are, or who shall be, down to the resurrection of Christ from the dead.

17 Now, we do not suppose that this first resurrection, which is spoken of in this manner, can be the resurrection of the souls and their consignation to happiness or misery. Ye cannot suppose that this is what it meaneth.

18 Behold, I say unto you, Nay; but it meaneth the reuniting of the soul with the body, of those from the days of Adam down to the resurrection of Christ.

19 Now, whether the souls and the bodies of those of whom has been spoken shall all be reunited at once, the wicked as well as the righteous, I do not say; let it suffice, that I say that they all come forth; or in other words, their resurrection cometh to pass before the resurrection of those who die after the resurrection of Christ.

20 Now, my son, I do not say that their resurrection cometh at the resurrection of Christ; but behold, I give it as my opinion, that the souls and the bodies are reunited, of the righteous, at the resurrection of Christ, and his ascension into heaven.

21 But whether it be at his resurrection or after, I do not say; but this much I say, that there is a space between death and the resurrection of the body, and a state of the soul in happiness or in misery until the time which is appointed of God that the dead shall come forth, and be reunited, both soul and body, and be brought to stand before God, and be judged according to their works.

Abraham 3
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
 
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dzheremi

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It's because of how absurd and even hateful these arguments and claims have been. I'm trying to make sure that I read what I read before responding.

Hmm.

I read every post that your "Did you really just say that?"s from my reply were originally written in response to, and while some of them were probably fairly provocative from what I assume the Mormon perspective on these things would be (based on interacting with you guys on here for a few years by now), none of them seemed unbelievable or so far beyond the pale as to really justify having to do a double take. Of course people would say such things -- we don't automatically believe in or trust Mormonism/Mormon apologetics, or hold Mormon people, places, and things as sacrosanct just because you do, since we're not Mormons, and Christianity and Mormonism have never seen eye to eye on basically everything foundational to the true worship of God, be it in theology, soteriology, or on many, many other matters.

I dunno...you often mention having been at this internet apologetics/discussion game for quite some time, but I can't help but think that perhaps the internet is not for you, if your gut reaction to basically anything that is posted that you do not like or find appropriate is this kind of shocked and appalled "Did you really just say that?" type of response. Perhaps you keep a bottle of smelling salts next to your computer or something. I don't know. It just seems like it would be exhausting having to ask the same question over and over when you already know the answer.
 
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Rescued One

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Raising counter-arguments to expose a flaw in someone's logic is perfectly fine and dandy in a debate.

Truth is what matters. Islam was not part of the debate and exposed no flaw.
 
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