LDS When did the Mormon Jesus become a God?

[Jane_Doe]

This video is reminiscent of how much Mormonism has evolved since the time of Joseph Smith. They've significantly altered the events and replaced the angel Moroni with a vision of God.

It reminds me of the very same kind of radical alteration that the early Christian church experienced when it broke off from Judaism in the late 3rd and 4th century.

FYI: every single "fact" this video is sharing with you is incorrect in some fashion. If you want I go through and explain actual LDS beliefs.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

This video is reminiscent of how much Mormonism has evolved since the time of Joseph Smith. They've significantly altered the events and replaced the angel Moroni with a vision of God.

It reminds me of the very same kind of radical alteration that the early Christian church experienced when it broke off from Judaism in the late 3rd and 4th century.

 

[Shek]

FYI: every single "fact" this video is sharing with you is incorrect in some fashion. If you want I go through and explain actual LDS beliefs.

Incorrect according to your beliefs, but the Jews view Christianity in the very same way that you view Mormonism.

There are 15 million Mormons worldwide.

Your first question should be asking why?

Not gonna be able to get around this....

Angel Moroni - Wikipedia

Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Incorrect according to your beliefs, but the Jews view Christianity in the very same way that you view Mormonism.

The is incorrect in that it is sharing incorrect information about LDS beliefs-- in other words, it's lying to the viewers. Such is not something any honorable person, let alone someone claiming to follow Jesus, should be endorsing.

It's not about agreeing with another person's views. It's about being truthful as to what those views are.

 

[Barney2.0]

Majority of the statements you're made here are incorrect (Mormons don't actually believe that). If I spent the time explaining actual LDS beliefs, would you be interested? (Just to get the facts straight)

I know basic LDS beliefs, you believe in Jesus Christ as lord and savior however not necessarily as the only God and believe in the world of your “infallible prophets” such as Joseph Smith, correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Shek]

It's about being truthful as to what those views are.

Every word that I've posted is true.

But I guess that the world has completely forgotten that Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew and he practiced Judaism. He read and taught from the Torah and the Old Testament. He even quoted passages from the Book of Enoch.

Mormonism isn't even close to Judaism...and idols are expressly forbidden!

 

[Jane_Doe]

I know basic LDS beliefs, you believe in Jesus Christ as lord and savior however not necessarily as the only God and believe in the world of your “infallible prophets” such as Joseph Smith, correct me if I’m wrong.

"believe in Jesus Christ as lord and savior" -- totally true. The foundation.

"not necessarily as the only God" -- incorrect. There's only ONE God. God consists of multiple persons, but there's only ONE God.

" 'infallible prophets' such as Joseph Smith" -- Joseph Smith was a man. Men sin. Not a single man who's ever walked with earth was perfect (besides Christ). LDS do believe in prophets that and count Joseph Smith among them, but do not pretend he was perfect in any way.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Every word that I've posted is true.

Unfortunately that is not correct.

May you have a good day.

 

[dzheremi]

So I was looking for some information on this question and I came across the following from the LDS teaching manual posted on LDS.org:

Display the following statement by Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and ask a student to read it aloud:

“That Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof; … In His nature would be combined the powers of Godhood with the capacity and possibilities of mortality; and this through the ordinary operation of the fundamental law of heredity, declared of God, demonstrated by science, and admitted by philosophy, that living beings shall propagate—after their kind. The Child Jesus was to inherit the physical, mental, and spiritual traits, tendencies, and powers that characterized His parents—one immortal and glorified—God, the other human—woman” (Jesus the Christ, 3rd ed. [1916], 81).

• What important traits did the Savior inherit from each of His parents?
  

As students respond, list on the board under “Mary” the traits Jesus Christ inherited from His mother (such as mortality—the ability to suffer pain and to die physically). List under “Heavenly Father” the traits Jesus inherited from His Father (such as the powers of Godhood—immortality or the power to live forever; see John 10:17–18).

Then invite a student to read Mosiah 3:7–8 aloud. Ask:

• Why did the Savior need the powers of both mortality and immortality to complete the Atonement? (As students respond, make sure they understand the following truth: As the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh, Jesus Christ was able to perform the Atoning sacrifice, which required Him to endure more than a mortal person could, and thereby fulfill His role in the Father’s plan. In addition, because Jesus had power over death, He had the capacity to rise from the dead. Make sure students understand that if Jesus Christ had been born of two mortal parents, He could not have overcome death or endured the infinite pain and suffering of the Atonement. If He were born of two immortal parents, He would not have been subject to physical suffering and death.)
  

To further emphasize this critical doctrine, provide each student with a copy of the following statement by Elder Robert E. Wells of the Seventy, and give them time to read and ponder it:

“The divine Sonship of Jesus Christ … is central to understanding the entire plan of salvation. He is the First Begotten Son of the Father in the premortal existence and the Only Begotten Son of the Father on earth. God the Eternal Father is the literal parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and of His other spirit children. …

“The ‘divine Sonship’ also refers to the designation ‘Only Begotten Son in the flesh.’ … This title signifies that Jesus’ physical body was the offspring of a mortal mother and of an immortal Eternal Father, which verity is crucial to the Atonement, a supreme act that could not have been accomplished by an ordinary man. Christ had power to lay down His life and power to take it again because He had inherited immortality from His Heavenly Father. From Mary, His mother, Christ inherited mortality, or the power to die.

“This infinite atonement of Christ and Christ’s divine Sonship go together hand in hand to form the single most important doctrine of all Christianity” (“Our Message to the World,” Ensign, Nov. 1995, 65).

+++'

I'm not a Mormon myself (obviously), but as it says above that God the Father/Elohim is the literal parent of Jesus Christ in a genetic sense (see the two quotes from the elders), then doesn't it follow that the Mormon Jesus is not God until the impregnation of Mary by Elohim? After all, it is their own teaching materials and leaders that emphasize how God the Father is the literal father of Jesus "through the ordinary operation of the fundamental law of heredity", and since we all know something of how heredity works by virtue of being ourselves offspring and/or parents, we know it is not proper or accurate to treat the normal genetic relation of father and son as preexisting the establishment of that relationship (read: you can only pass on your traits by virtue of having a child, and that's something that happens within space and time, not eternally).

So...when Mary got pregnant, maybe?

 

[Ironhold]

Here we go again...

Here’s some weird and crazy stuff I read about Mormonism:

1. Jesus wasn’t born of a virgin, God had natural sex with Mary to impregnate Jesus.

Brigham Young made a single statement talking about how what took place happened by "natural means". Critics of the church have taken this and run with it since, never mind the fact that Young's statement was never put into the official theology and appears to have been a one-off remark meant to quash a debate going on at the time.

2. Jesus atoned for our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane, not on the cross

The Garden was where he agreed to take on the sins of the world, while the cross was where he defeated death.

3. The “Inspired” Joseph Smith translation of the bible is more correct than any other translation of the Bible

The JST was begun as a spiritually-guided translation because the Bible translations of the day were declared inadequate by God, the result of important details being lost.

4. The Earth is a living entity that must also go through ordinances, death and exaltation. The Flood of Noah was the Earth’s baptism. The fire and burning at the 2nd coming will be the baptism by fire and immediately after, exaltation to a perfect sphere of glass

[citation needed]

5. Satan can read your thoughts so praying silently can help keep some of your secrets from him

[citation needed]

6. God the father is only one of millions or endless Gods who are all basically relatives, fathers, brothers, grand-gods and so forth to our own God. If we’re worthy, we get to join the God club too.

Massive distortion of the actual theology.

Rather, everyone who is, was, and will be are literal spirit siblings, the offspring of Heavenly Father himself.

Those who are the most righteous will be elevated to an exalted state, exalted in the sense that Psalms 82 uses it.

That's right: most critics don't stop to note the difference between "God" and "god" in LDS theology.

7. The Holy Ghost goes to bed at midnight, so all dates, sleepovers, or other activities by youth or single people need to end by midnight or else you won’t have protection or guidance against the temptations of the devil.

This isn't official theology.

Rather, it's something you'll sometimes hear parents tell their teens - in various degrees of seriousness - to encourage them to return by a curfew.

8. Jesus was supposed to come in the year 2000, but he didn’t.

[citation needed]

9. Once the prophet or brethren have spoken, the thinking has been done. Don’t question it.

Mormon/LDS Answers: Questions about LDS Prophets and the Mormons

The original statement in question comes from a single bit written in 1945, which was clarified in the late 1970s.

It's not that people aren't supposed to think for themselves. Rather, when there's a dispute about doctrinal matters, the official statement of the church is the defining line of theology. That's far different than what critics claim.

10. God is a resurrected, extra terrestrial, exalted human male who lives on a planet near a star called Kolob. See Book of Abraham, chapter 3 in Pearl of Great Price.

Have you read it?

This isn’t even half of it all, some of the stuff was to embarrassing to put up here.

Try us.

 

[Ironhold]

This video is reminiscent of how much Mormonism has evolved since the time of Joseph Smith. They've significantly altered the events and replaced the angel Moroni with a vision of God.

It reminds me of the very same kind of radical alteration that the early Christian church experienced when it broke off from Judaism in the late 3rd and early 4th century.

Jesus' early followers were all Jews and proselytes and they all practiced Judaism. They obeyed the commandments and observed Jewish traditions...

Any way to summarize the video? Not everyone has time to just sit and watch.

 

[Shek]

Not everyone has time to just sit and watch.

It's 4 minutes long....you spend more time brewing your morning coffee.

 

[Rescued One]

"not necessarily as the only God" -- incorrect. There's only ONE God. God consists of multiple persons, but there's only ONE God...

Mormons teach that there are three separate personages and that Joseph Smith literally saw both the Father and the Son. Are you going to rewrite the official First Vision?

 

[Ironhold]

It's 4 minutes long....you spend more time brewing your morning coffee.

Did you really just say that?

 

[withwonderingawe]

There’s no proof in science or in faith that the Earth is alive.... .

Read through Romans 8:19-22

The earnest expectation of the creature waitheth...for the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly...the creature itself also shall be delivered... the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain..."

Paul speaks of creation as if it has a will and feels pain.

 

[Shek]

Did you really just say that?

Like that didja?

(timely joke)

Religious Restrictions on Beverages

Not everyone agrees...

Remember, Jesus himself was a Jew.

"There are no specific rules against either coffee or tea in Judaism."

 

[Rescued One]

“Only begotten” means a unique creation of God. There can by more than one unique creation.

It has nothing to do with creation. Jesus was not created.

While I may not believe in the Joseph Smith revelations or Mormon prophets, they have faith and bear fruit. I’m always impressed when I see them on bikes carrying their faith in Christ.

Non-Christian religions have faith and serve others.

 

[dzheremi]

Synopsis: The cartoon video is a dialogue between a woman and two Mormon missionaries who come to the woman's house to preach Mormonism to her. She asks them questions about their religion and they answer, telling her about Mormon theology, the Mormon plan of exaltation, temple work and baptisms for the dead, etc. -- all things which sound outrageous to this evidently Christian lady, to the point where she slams her front door in their faces. Then the video ends with one of the missionaries turning to the other and asking "Was it something I said?"

 

[Rescued One]

This video is reminiscent of how much Mormonism has evolved since the time of Joseph Smith. They've significantly altered the events and replaced the angel Moroni with a vision of God.

It reminds me of the very same kind of radical alteration that the early Christian church experienced when it broke off from Judaism in the late 3rd and early 4th century.

Jesus' early followers were all Jews and proselytes and they all practiced Judaism. They obeyed the commandments and observed Jewish traditions...

I'm going to watch the video when I have time and will see if all of it is accurate.

Can you tell me if it addresses my two questions or is it a rabbit trail?

 

[withwonderingawe]

There’s no proof in science or in faith that the Earth is alive, there is only one God, he has no brothers mothers or sisters or fathers. There’s no proof Jesus was crucified on Gethsemane, Christians don’t believe God is immaterial we don’t know how his true form looks like nor do we presume to know what it looks like, we just know he came down as a man called Jesus Christ. Mormons believe their “prophets are Infallible, Mormons do hold the Book of Mormon to be the true Bible see here:
Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon - ensign
As for the saying the Holy Spirit going to bed at midnight, supposedly Mormons use it to frighten their youth to come home early. See here:
Does the Holy Ghost 'Go to Bed' at Midnight? | LDS Living
That is however blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, Over the years various prophets and apostles in the mormon church have commented on the Virgin birth of Jesus. They suggest that Mary was a virgin in the sense that she had not known any mortal men. But that God has begotten Jesus in the same natural way that we were begotten by our fore fathers, this is however extreme blasphemy do suggest God sexually impregnated Mary who is a mortal human.

If you're saying God is not an immaterial substance then you can't be a true Christian, just ask anyone here.