Questions about origins of life timeline

[dad]

Yes, its unfortunate that a theist can be identified, just by him/her tossing those words around alone.

God's position is clear. Nothing else really matters all that much. Opinions of demonists and bibliophobes do not matter. What the city council in Sodom and Gomorrah voted for does not matter!

 

[szechuan]

God's position is clear. Nothing else really matters all that much. Opinions of demonists and bibliophobes do not matter. What the city council in Sodom and Gomorrah voted for does not matter!

Yet it wasn't clear with Jesus. People can interpret the Bible differently, many Christians don't care about gay marriage anymore.

 

[dad]

Actually, my solution would reduce that to maybe 10 million (if you don't count Communist China and its population controls forcing abortions) if they were done across the globe.

Nope. People still were sinners when there were only 10 million! Like cancer, sin affects the whole body. You can't just say 'I would only allow one hand of a body to live and that would cure the killing and evil men do!

Of course, that would be an unrealistic expectation, seeing as most countries have water shortages and other more pressing matters, but I do think that developed countries are perfectly capable of cutting abortions in half in less than a decade, maybe eliminate it almost completely within my lifetime.

Abortion is just one murderous outcrop of the disease of sin. If God did not return to stop man, and take over, no man would remain alive! That is how bad sin is. Terminal. No cure. Only Jesus saves.

I have to try to be realistic, sure I would like to think that there is some great solution which would end all abortion without conflict resulting from it today, but I highly doubt that. I am looking for a solution which people would actually agree to on both the pro choice and pro life sides, and that takes tact and compromise.

The heart is where the problem is, not in the manifestations of sin alone. When a society gets to the point where it pushes sin gung ho up front and center, that means that it is near death. History shows that.

Holocaust death camps weren't shut down by the government which started them, you honestly think that if Hitler remained in power that they would have remained shut down or even shut down at all? But this detracts from our conversation.

God has always used other wicked men to judge wicked nations! That doesn't mean they will not also get to the advanced wickedness stage one day also. Men are not the solution.

Sin is the endgame of humanity dad. I don't recall god ever saying that we can't try to reduce sin, even if the bible makes statements suggesting it is a futile effort, we won't know unless we try.

Sin is not something that wicked men control, but that controls wicked men. In a society where a real effort is made to have godly rules, the absolute final evil stages of death by wickedness can be stemmed to some degree...indeed should be! There comes a point however, when it is too late...nothing waits but judgment of God. That creepy feeling.


Will you try to help progress towards peace like me dad, or will you be stuck in a self inflicted sense of defeatism waiting on the apocalypse like so many others dissatisfied with the world and yet unwilling to actively try to change it?[/quote]

 

[szechuan]

Will you try to help progress towards peace like me dad, or will you be stuck in a self inflicted sense of defeatism waiting on the apocalypse like so many others dissatisfied with the world and yet unwilling to actively try to change it?

It's not self defeatism it's being realistic, when you're able to bring peace to the middle east let me know.

Peace will only work if everybody worked together for a better world regardless of religious differences, races, and accept different cultures and of course put aside differences to advance the human race and work toward a better future.

 

[Kylie]

Hey, this is not just about you, woman. Science makes claims.

"Flatworms Are Oldest Living Ancestors To Those Of Us..."


Flatworms Are Oldest Living Ancestors To Those Of Us With Right And Left Sides, Researchers Report In Science -- ScienceDaily

Yes, popular science websites are a great place for science information.

The simple fact is that no species alive today was alive when the common ancestor species between modern Humans and modern flatworms was around.

Think of it like this. If we go back enough generations, no doubt there is someone in your family tree that is also in my family tree. It might have been someone living a thousand years ago in Europe, for example. Could have been earlier, could have been later. Maybe in a different area of the world. But there will be someone, there's no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean they are still alive, does it?

You see, if you have an ancestor, then what they reproduce determines what you are! About time you face the facts of your belief system.

You're dirt then?>

In your fable, of course. But we were looking at a living ancestor!!!!! On a side note, fossils exist showing flatworms were just the same then as now!

You are talking nonsense. Modern flatworms are incapable of being an ancestral species of Humans. If you had a basic knowledge of what evolution actually is, you'd know this. You are displaying your ignorance about science for all to see.

Not only do they claim it was but that it is the oldest living one! Behold the fable, people.

The only fable is your ludicrous strawman.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It's not self defeatism it's being realistic, when you're able to bring peace to the middle east let me know.

Peace will only work if everybody worked together for a better world regardless of religious differences, races, and accept different cultures and of course put aside differences to advance the human race and work toward a better future.

I don't expect to end all suffering, but there is no loss on my part for trying to reduce it. Better to try and risk failure than be content with pointless suffering. And it is very defeatist to think the only realistic option is to not even try.

 

[biggles53]

That is unknown. Most would assume no, He is spiritual, so our physical counterpart representation of things spiritual..(body parts) only reflect things of spiritual nature.

I would have to ask if Jesus risen body had body parts? He ate. He had hands, etc. So..?

So the god from whom Jesus was supposedly spawned had no sexual organs, yet it was able to fertilise a human woman's ovum......nice trick...!

And the Jesus that this god produced WAS equipped with a full set of organs, testicles that could produce sperm, etc....but was destined never to use them......kinda pointless piece of design...?

 

[dad]

Yet it wasn't clear with Jesus.

What was not clear? Be clear.

many Christians don't care about gay marriage anymore.

Or most any other sin. So? What God changed His mind?

 

[biggles53]

What was not clear? Be clear.

Or most any other sin. So? What God changed His mind?

Wouldn't be the first time....!

Didn't he arrange your mythical flood because things hadn't turned out the way he had envisaged for humans....?

And then that plan didn't work, so he had to order the Jews to slaughter the naughty people...

And then THAT plan didn't do the trick, so he had to send himself to earth to try to influence people to be good by having himself killed as a sacrifice to himself....??

So...how's that one workin out...?

Oh, and then there's all those different commands between the old and new testaments.......certainly looks like a change of mind to me.....

 

[dad]

Yes, popular science websites are a great place for science information.

The simple fact is that no species alive today was alive when the common ancestor species between modern Humans and modern flatworms was around.

Why pretend anyone asked you about any imagined species in between??


The question was whether reproduction from a claimed common ancestor resulted in mankind or not. Sarah already answered that.

Think of it like this. If we go back enough generations, no doubt there is someone in your family tree that is also in my family tree. It might have been someone living a thousand years ago in Europe, for example. Could have been earlier, could have been later. Maybe in a different area of the world. But there will be someone, there's no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean they are still alive, does it?

No, and the flatworm couple having sex that supposedly spawned the species that eventually resulted in mankind is not alive now either. To suggest they would be alive is foolish.

You're dirt then?>

I did not come from the dust of the earth. Adam did. He also came from the very breath of the Almighty.

You are talking nonsense. Modern flatworms are incapable of being an ancestral species of Humans. If you had a basic knowledge of what evolution actually is, you'd know this. You are displaying your ignorance about science for all to see.

Fossilized flatworms actually look about the same. This is news? Why pretend to have a clue?



The only fable is your ludicrous strawman.[/quote]

 

[EternalDragon]

Wouldn't be the first time....!

Didn't he arrange your mythical flood because things hadn't turned out the way he had envisaged for humans....?

And then that plan didn't work, so he had to order the Jews to slaughter the naughty people...

And then THAT plan didn't do the trick, so he had to send himself to earth to try to influence people to be good by having himself killed as a sacrifice to himself....??

So...how's that one workin out...?

Oh, and then there's all those different commands between the old and new testaments.......certainly looks like a change of mind to me.....

Well, when you plant a garden you have to expect some weeds to try to take over.

But in any case you have a very distorted view of what scripture teaches. I'd advise studying it before making any more ridiculous statements like those above.

 

[dad]

Wouldn't be the first time....!

Didn't he arrange your mythical flood because things hadn't turned out the way he had envisaged for humans....?

And then that plan didn't work, so he had to order the Jews to slaughter the naughty people...

And then THAT plan didn't do the trick, so he had to send himself to earth to try to influence people to be good by having himself killed as a sacrifice to himself....??

So...how's that one workin out...?

Oh, and then there's all those different commands between the old and new testaments.......certainly looks like a change of mind to me.....

The plan all along was to come to earth. God knew where the sin road would lead.

 

[Kylie]

Why pretend anyone asked you about any imagined species in between??

Ah, yes, whenever you don't like the way the discussion is going, try to dismiss it because if you don't you'll be shown as wrong.

The question was whether reproduction from a claimed common ancestor resulted in mankind or not. Sarah already answered that.

And I agreed as well.

If you go back far enough, modern humans and modern flatworms have a common ancestor. That ancestor was not a flatworm.

No, and the flatworm couple having sex that supposedly spawned the species that eventually resulted in mankind is not alive now either. To suggest they would be alive is foolish.

Glad we agree on that.

Now all you have to do is realise that the ancestor was not a flatworm. The flatworms we have today are the result of millions of years of evolution since the time of the ancestral species, and thus have changed quite a bit genetically.

I did not come from the dust of the earth. Adam did. He also came from the very breath of the Almighty.

And you came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from someone who came from Adam. So what? Indirectly, you believe you came from dirt.

Fossilized flatworms actually look about the same. This is news? Why pretend to have a clue?

So? Why do you think evolution only ever changes the physical appearance? It works on things like genetics as well, you know.

The only fable is your ludicrous strawman.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Didn't have a response for this? I suspect it would be more dismissal, or trying to change the subject, or maybe even just an insult.

 

[dad]

Ah, yes, whenever you don't like the way the discussion is going, try to dismiss it because if you don't you'll be shown as wrong.

Nothing is wrong about any species in between the ones I mentioned. They were not brought up by me in any serious way. They never existed. They exist in your head only.

And I agreed as well.

OK, so you officially admit that you are the result of flatworm sex!!?

If you go back far enough, modern humans and modern flatworms have a common ancestor. That ancestor was not a flatworm.

Forget going back into the dreamscapes of your godless imagination any further. We really did have flatworms we still do. Look the same too. The point was to illustrate the gross darkness and degrading view of mankind that evos really have. You think we resulted from flatworm sex!!!

The flatworms we have today are the result of millions of years of evolution since the time of the ancestral species, and thus have changed quite a bit genetically.

Prove the changes in living flatworms and the ancient fossils that look the same? You don't get to just declare stuff as fact here.

you believe you came from dirt.

I came from God. God used 'dust' of the earth in making the body, but His spirit to give life. There was no life in the dirt. Living breathing man came from God. The body he had was fashioned by God from dust of the earth.

So? Why do you think evolution only ever changes the physical appearance? It works on things like genetics as well, you know.

Great, so you know the flatworms in the fossils were different genetically, because...??


Lurkers, beware, we have two evos admitting in this thread that they actually really think man and woman came to exist as a result of flatworms having sex!!!!

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

So the god from whom Jesus was supposedly spawned had no sexual organs, yet it was able to fertilise a human woman's ovum......nice trick...!

And the Jesus that this god produced WAS equipped with a full set of organs, testicles that could produce sperm, etc....but was destined never to use them......kinda pointless piece of design...?

Those of us who have faith in Jesus would suggest that one should not make assumptions about the nature of His incarnate physiology without evidence. It is only highly probable, not certain, that He had normal male genitalia.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The plan all along was to come to earth. God knew where the sin road would lead.

So everything He did before that was just spinning His wheels?

 

[biggles53]

Those of us who have faith in Jesus would suggest that one should not make assumptions about the nature of His incarnate physiology without evidence. It is only highly probable, not certain, that He had normal male genitalia.

Why...? Why would a god equip himself with organs that he would/could never use....

I suppose that you'll also assert that god has a belly button...?

 

[biggles53]

The plan all along was to come to earth. God knew where the sin road would lead.

Then why so many failed attempts to eradicate that 'sin' along the way...?

Your god must be the most useless planner that ever existed...!

 

[Kylie]

Nothing is wrong about any species in between the ones I mentioned. They were not brought up by me in any serious way. They never existed. They exist in your head only.

Right. So in your head, a worm gave birth to a human?

OK, so you officially admit that you are the result of flatworm sex!!?

How many times do I have to say this before you actually start paying attention? The creatures we have today called flatworms were not around back then! Every species that was around then is now extinct! How are you not getting this?

Forget going back into the dreamscapes of your godless imagination any further. We really did have flatworms we still do. Look the same too. The point was to illustrate the gross darkness and degrading view of mankind that evos really have. You think we resulted from flatworm sex!!!

Do you intentionally ignore me? The flatworms we see today had not evolved yet! No modern species at all existed back then! How can you not understand this?

Prove the changes in living flatworms and the ancient fossils that look the same? You don't get to just declare stuff as fact here.

What, do you want the genetic code? Do you really think that a species that lived half a billion years ago is going to be exactly the same as the species we have now?

I came from God. God used 'dust' of the earth in making the body, but His spirit to give life. There was no life in the dirt. Living breathing man came from God. The body he had was fashioned by God from dust of the earth.

So you admit you came from dust. Indirectly, yes, but you came from dust.

Great, so you know the flatworms in the fossils were different genetically, because...??

Because of evolution. Learn about it dad, because when you try to debate against it while knowing nothing about it, you look silly.

Lurkers, beware, we have two evos admitting in this thread that they actually really think man and woman came to exist as a result of flatworms having sex!!!!

I'm sorry, I forgot that reality is determined by what actually appeals to you.

You know nothing about evolution, very little about science, and nothing about what makes a good argument.

 

[madaz]

Every species that was around then is now extinct!

Around then?

When exactly are you talking about?