Forgive me for being personal with you but I think you haven't changed much even after claiming that you are now going to follow Isa Ibn Maryam (Peace be upon both of them).
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Questioning of Islam
- Thread starter HumbleSiPilot77
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Forgive me for being personal with you but I think you haven't changed much even after claiming that you are now going to follow Isa Ibn Maryam (Peace be upon both of them).
français
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1. Bukhari is the most reliable Hadith transmitter, but he is NOT infallible. There are still some Hadiths that are classified as da'eef(weak.) I am not sure if this Hadith is or not, because I do not have the info to derive that.
2. As others have said, you can not just take the Hadith at face value without doing research first. How do you know it was not for a certain time, for a specific reason? This is where the scholars come in and find these answers. Of course, sometimes there is a disagreement.
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You can get as personal as you wish, not sure what you are basing your thoughts here upon however, I do not follow a person called Isa ibn Maryam, that is an islamic invention to cover up the real historical character, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, True God of True God, Begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and become man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried; And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father; And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end. He is called Yasouh Al-Masih, not Isa ibn whatnot...
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Maybe, this will help.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...kAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1164545965182
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_251_300/is_killing_an_apostate_in_the_is.htm
Essentially, Islamic scholars diffrentiate between Major and Minor apostate, the former being a person who leave Islam to join forces with the enemies to destroy the Islamic state, and the latter being a person who leave the religion because of his personal belief and do not pose a threat to the Muslim community as a whole.
Interestingly, a Bedouin once came to the Prophet to say he wanted to leave Islam and the Prophet did not kill him but let him leave.
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By changing your name or your religion, your biological father can never be changed... You are you'r biological father's son.
A father who is in total control will never ask his son to die neither a God who forbids unjustice will ever allow an innocent man's blood.
Open your heart and realize.
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What is the relevancy?
Then Pilate said to him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world--to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice."
(Joh 18:37 ESV)
even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
(Mat 20:28 ESV)
Your understanding of Christian theology concerning redemption is not correct. Father never asked the Son a favor in desperation in order to clean up a mess. Justice came through sacrifice, willing sacrifice of the Son, not unplanned slaughter.
A father who is in total control will never ask his son to die
A father who is in control first establishes people wouldn't mess with his scriptures and teachings so every so many centuries he "perfects" a new religion.
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Meshavrischika
for Thy greater honor and glory
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No need to, I've seen enough of what people think over there. The Catholic Church is heretically liberal after Vatican II, Protestantism is ludicrous, Islam is the Eternal Archenemy, acknowledging common ground with other religions is grave heresy, the Byzantine Empire was the best country to ever exist, persecution of false teachers is righteous and just, nothing good ever came out of the Enlightenment... and don't forget to homeschool your kids!
If it does, you have just discredited Orthodox Christianity in a way I would never dare to.
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Yes, A Father would but A Creator who gave free will, showed sign after sign, sent Prophets and Messenger wouldn't have to establish people's obedience towards Him...
What kind of justice you are talking about by reliaing on human sacrifice?
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Just didn't have to stick around, I see...
Is it considered an ecumenical council?
Have you seen Borat's church experience? Fathers didn't teach none of that.
Because it is of Satan, of Anti-Christ...
Which is your <staff edit> ..
Besides the United States of America...
You should be familiar with that one, so why surprised?
There is nothing wrong with that, could you prove anything wrong came out of it?
Sure, my personal experiences with Islam discredits Orthodoxy, whatever you say...
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Secundulus
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Thank you.
Perhaps we can agree that this scholarly opinion is not universally agreed to, as we saw in Afghanistan last year.
Also, I might point out that even in your country, while I have not read of any evidence of the killing of those who leave Islam, your government prevents them from officially changing their identification to another religion.
However, it is a hopeful sign that some scholars can come to this conclusion. May the opinions of these men, and those like them, overcome the forces of darkness that threaten to overcome the Islamic world.
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Secundulus
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He didn't allow an innocent man's blood. He allowed his own blood to defeat Satan and death and provide the way for your and my reconcilliation to him.
But you refuse this reconcilliation relying instead upon your own pride in the belief that if you try hard enough, and pray often enough, he will accept you.
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Please don't give me the spin around with semantics, you specifically used Father Son relationship as it's written in the Scriptures and I showed you how, now you are twisting it into Quranic teachings, I do not care, believe or revere Quran or its teachings. This has nothing to do with free will, it is God's will that Christ had to suffer for mankind.
Eternal justice, read the Bible if you want to learn about it. Oh and it is not just "human" sacrifice, Aztecs did that, this was God's work.
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i get the impression that God is a graceful loser trying to hold things together, not an almighty winner in control
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Which reflects a gross misconception of Christian God and an effort to reconcile Him with the made up islamic one. Somehow God promises the Messiah, His sacrifice is laid out but carrying this ministry out is losing control. And this comes from a follower of Muhammad, who worships a God that bargains prayer times with a human, he is so much in control, he has to "perfect" the religion 3 times, and he has to cheat and deceive to save his face to pull Isa out of shame(!)... Yes, that is the one we should turn to... Not the graceful loser who ROSE from the dead, conquering death. Muhammad's bones are still available today.
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It's always funny to watch the one-upmanship game in monotheism. Redactions, revisions, rationalizations, all made with the goal of saying "My daddy can beat up your daddy!" on the cosmic scale.
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Well, nobody is talking to me, but I will make a comment anyway.
Plus, "God bargained with a human" over how many righteous people would be enough to save Sodom from God's wrath. See Genesis 18:25 - 32. How, then, does your personal opinion about what God would, or would not, do disprove the claims of Islam?
There is not one word in our Scriptures which says that means the claims of those Scriptures are false. To us, the Christian argument that a religion is from God only if the Founder of the group was bodily raised from the dead is nonsensical.
My religion changed it's rules for prayer, and doctrines were adjusted as the understanding of the believers increased. Do you think these historical facts make me have the slightest doubt my religion is a message from God?
Plus, "God bargained with a human" over how many righteous people would be enough to save Sodom from God's wrath. See Genesis 18:25 - 32. How, then, does your personal opinion about what God would, or would not, do disprove the claims of Islam?
So what? I know to the square foot where the Founder of my religion is buried. It's a shrine, a place for pilgrimage.
There is not one word in our Scriptures which says that means the claims of those Scriptures are false. To us, the Christian argument that a religion is from God only if the Founder of the group was bodily raised from the dead is nonsensical.
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No... are you deliberately being <staff edit> ? If you admit that personal experience is enough to discredit a religion, you have just given me license to use personal experience to discredit your religion.
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Yea, isn't it funny?
Our daddy beat up your "daddies" so bad, they still couldn't recover.You are welcome.
I don't doubt how you believe, what you believe, given your peaceful contributions. I don't believe your religion is the truth but let it be my own bias derived from my faith. But, it changed the rules and doctrines, good for you.
No no no, God DID NOT bargain with Abraham, but in a way, He told Abraham what was going to happen. Islam's claims are based on a hadith, not the "reliable, concrete Quran" and the nature of questioning is different.
My remark was about conquering death, you don't really need to relate it to your own.
Yes but the claim is not simple and isolated like that.
First, watch your mouth, second, there is nothing in the list can not be proven by personal experience as the author did so. My personal experience is the salt and vinegar on the salad, and third you have not been an Orthodox, your personal experience means nothing.
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