Question

[Chriliman]

Depends on what you mean when saying "God". Feel free to clarify.


I´m mainly in the Philosophy and E&M forums. I´m not particularly interested in discussing the question "Does God exist?" - for various reasons.

That said, I must say I am not impressed by the arguments you have presented here. Not at all. Actually, I don´t even recall an attempt at a serious argument from you.

I don't argue, I discuss and explain at a personal level. I engage with the person and honestly try to understand their view. Then I explain in simple terms why I believe something different.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Exactly my point. We all should accept soundly reasoned explanations as evidence of truth. Todd not Todd said he only accepts soundly reasoned evidence as evidence of truth. This is a redundant statement that he made in order to disagree with me.

Eum, the quote ana responded to was a reply from you to HitchSlap, not "todd not todd".
And you failed to address ana's question.

You said: "By this logic I could just as easily say that the lack of evidence that God does not exist, means God does exist. Based on your logic, you should agree, yet you don't, why is that?"

Ana was pointing out how your statement was not sensical.

It is perfecly valid to say that the very consistent lack of evidence in SUPPORT of X, becomes evidence AGAINST X if it consistently persists (which it does, in case of religious claims in general).

You responded by saying that you could turn that around using the same "logic".
But you can NOT, because that implies a shift of the burden of proof. Wich is not valid logic.

It's invalid to request evidence of the non-existence of anything.
But it's very valid to request evidence of the existence of things. And when time after time after time... people fail to provide this evidence, it becomes pretty valid to assume no such evidence exists. Which then, in itself, becomes evidence of the contrary.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Exactly my point. We all should accept soundly reasoned explanations as evidence of truth. Todd not Todd said he only accepts soundly reasoned evidence as evidence of truth. This is a redundant statement that he made in order to disagree with me.

And as I've said in another post, sound arguments can be evidence.

You really need to understand the words and phrases that people use. This is the Philosophy section, so it's important to understand... Philosophy...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Hi, Jenny bee It looks like you believed in God as an idea, not the One who is personal with His children. You were not expecting Him, maybe, to personally communicate and share with you - - - and correct you . . . like the Bible says He does > Hebrews 12:4-11 . . . 1 Corinthians 6:17 . . . Romans 5:5 < by the way, did your investigation include knowing these scriptures??

I know you might not mean it in that way, but you do recognise how condescending this is?

 

[com7fy8]

I think I see what you mean, Arch. I was feeling more confrontational, than condescending . . . and I would say I did not need to be like that. So, thank you

I believed in God as more than idea. I believed in Him with all of my heart and lived a Christian life. I experienced feelings that I thought were of God, but in reality, I know that was a psychological misinterpretation.

Jenny bee, you gave a very clear answer; so I offer my apology and thank you for making yourself clear.

 

[Chriliman]

No, I believed in God as more than idea. I believed in Him with all of my heart and lived a Christian life. I experienced feelings that I thought were of God, but in reality, I know that was a psychological misinterpretation.

It is fine to believe on faith alone as that is what the Bible teaches. But just make sure you are fully understanding just what it is you are believing and being asked to believe.

Good point. I'd take it step further and say be sure your beliefs are conforming to the truth and not the other way around.

 

[Chriliman]

And as I've said in another post, sound arguments can be evidence.

You really need to understand the words and phrases that people use. This is the Philosophy section, so it's important to understand... Philosophy...

Great! So we can agree that you would believe someone who had a soundly reasonable explanation for why the Christian God does not exist. You would not require evidence of this God not existing.

Unfortunately, such a person with such an argument does not exist. This is my point

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Great! So we can agree that you would believe someone who had a soundly reasonable explanation for why the Christian God does not exist. You would not require evidence of this God not existing.

Unfortunately, such a person with such an argument does not exist. This is my point

You're still not understanding the language...

A sound argument for the non-existence of the Christian god would BE evidence of the Christian god not existing.

And as I've already mentioned in another post, such arguments, for me, do exist...

 

[HitchSlap]

By this logic I could just as easily say that the lack of evidence that God does not exist, means God does exist. Based on your logic, you should agree, yet you don't, why is that?

I do not accept that lack of evidence for one thing is equal to evidence for anything. Are you familiar with the null hypothesis?

If you claim to have a purple dragon in your closet, I can only believe you're lying, unless you're able to demonstrate it's existence. Same for your god/s.

 

[HitchSlap]

Great! So we can agree that you would believe someone who had a soundly reasonable explanation for why the Christian God does not exist. You would not require evidence of this God not existing.

Unfortunately, such a person with such an argument does not exist. This is my point

Right. You can't prove a negative.

 

[quatona]

I don't argue, I discuss and explain at a personal level. I engage with the person and honestly try to understand their view. Then I explain in simple terms why I believe something different.

Well, you did ask a question about arguments.

I don´t know how to process your personal perceptions and interpretations thereof. To me they appear to be a pile of big words that aren´t strung together in an intelligible way.

 

[PropheticTimes]

Because I've heard all the arguments, and found them all without merit, I have no reason to believe in a god. I wouldn't say that I'm more of an atheist, since the phrase seems silly. The only change over time I've had is that I think that a purely intellectual argument for a god's existence is folly.

Oh, and I don't think it's possible to consider believing in something. Either I accept evidence and believe, or I don't.

If you truly seek the truth and seek the knowledge, I would recommend taking the time to watch this video.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Right. You can't prove a negative.

But you can show that a god definition is self contradictory, and therefore can't exist.

 

[HitchSlap]

But you can show that a god definition is self contradictory, and therefore can't exist.

Exactly. Which is a point that most theists fail to address, and if they do, can only be supported with special pleading.

 

[HitchSlap]

If you truly seek the truth and seek the knowledge, I would recommend taking the time to watch this video.

WLC doesn't science.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

WLC doesn't science.

^ This.

 

[quatona]

WLC doesn't science.

But you have to admit that he has taken the art of employing logical fallacies to a new level.

 

[HitchSlap]

But you have to admit that he has taken the art of employing logical fallacies to a new level.

Jedi level.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Just out of curiosity...what did you convert from?

And I'm sorry, I should've been more clear when I said "personal interpretation" of scripture. I do realize some denominations rely on a specific person or group's interpretation of scripture and don't necessarily encourage each believer to develop their own understanding of the bible. I just wasn't thinking of this when I made my previous post.

I was raised by a single mother who was agnostic. I remember that I had identified myself as that, too. And I was dabbling in witchcraft before I converted to Christianity.

 

[AnonymousRain]

Interesting view. Thanks!

Thank you. My pleasure.