question

[Jenny30]

I was just wondering why am I having a difficult time picture God creating things? I want to be able to get it so bad, but it's hard for me to visualize God creating things, especially humans. I'm sorry for such a stupid question, but my mind doesn't seem to rest.

 

[theophilus40]

Some people are simply better at visualizing things than others are. Do you believe that he created everything? That is the important thing; it really doesn't matter whether or not you can picture it happening.

 

[Jenny30]

Yes...but I'm new and I have so many questions. Sometimes the questions are so overbearing and I let myself get so stressed out. - Thank you for the advice. i really appreciate it.

 

[Peripatetic]

There are some things that we, as Christians, need to accept with faith. If we could "see" everything, faith would be worthless. It's OK to imagine aspects of God, but we need to know that we'll hit our limitations pretty quickly.

Even on Earth, our ability to visualize is very limited, and many things are conceivable that we can't imagine or visualize. For example, an object with 1,000 sides is certainly possible, but we can't visualize it. We know that atoms, protons, and neutrons make up everything, but we can't really imagine what they actually look like.

But you are doing a good thing by pondering God and trying to know Him and what He's done!

 

[Harry3142]

Jenny30-

The fact that god created all that now exists isn't really that hard to accept. But i suspect that you are referring to the creation stories of Genesis 1&2 as literal 6-day events. Many Christians, including myself, do not accept this. That is because the purpose of the creation stories of genesis was not to set a timeline in which all was created, but rather to replace a teaching which the Hebrews were already quite familiar with:

www.theologywebsite.com/etext/egypt/creation.shtml

In this earlier creation story the sun, moon and stars were to be seen as deities, the earth and atmosphere were to be seen as deities, and even justice was to be seen as a deity. Every species of animals was to be seen as representing a certain deity; some were represented by a single specie, while others were represented by a combination of two or more deities molded into a single being.

Moses methodically dismantled this teaching in the creation story of Genesis 1:1-2:3. The sun, moon and stars were to be seen as nothing more than objects in the heavens which gave them light, the surface of the earth and its atmosphere were to be seen as nothing more than inanimate parts of this planet, and the other species of animals were to be seen as nothing more than other species of animals. The only being who was to be seen as divine was over and above all that he had created, and also invisible, so he could never be portrayed in a painting on a tomb wall, or sculpted out of stone.

The second creation story (Genesis 2:4-25) set man apart from all the other species of animals. Whereas the egyptian creation epic taught that man was simply one of the species of animals created on the last day of creation, Genesis taught that man was created with a unique relationship to the Creator. Man could converse directly with God, unlike any other specie. Man was given the authority to name all the other species of animals, a sign of authority over them in that era. Man was placed in a certain location (The Garden of Eden) so that he could tend it while living peacefully. And even man's helpmate (Eve) was to be seen as unique among all the creatures whom God had created.

And man had another ability that no other specie has yet today. He could deliberately choose to reject his innocence, and instead become knowledgeable of good and evil.

 

[theophilus40]

The fact that god created all that now exists isn't really that hard to accept. But i suspect that you are referring to the creation stories of Genesis 1&2 as literal 6-day events. Many Christians, including myself, do not accept this. That is because the purpose of the creation stories of genesis was not to set a timeline in which all was created, but rather to replace a teaching which the Hebrews were already quite familiar with.

I thought the purpose of the creation story was to tell how the creation really happened. If it wasn't literally true then whoever wrote it simply replaced one lie with another.

Moses methodically dismantled this teaching in the creation story of Genesis 1:1-2:3.

Are you sure Moses was actually the author of this account? Since all of the events in Genesis took place before Moses was born it is more likely that Moses was an editor who combined already existing historical records rather than being the author. If that is the case then this creation account is actually older that the Egyptian accounts.

The second creation story (Genesis 2:4-25)

This isn't a second account. The first chapter simply tells us that humans were created on the sixth day. This is a more detailed account of how God did it.

http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u318632-e80311/

http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u318632-e80328/

It is a widely held belief that science has proven that the Bible's account of creation is false. Many scientists hold beliefs about the origin of the earth that contradict what the Bible says but most people aren't aware of the fact that there is scientific evidence that these theories are wrong.

The 10 Best Evidences from Science that Confirm a Young Earth - Answers in Genesis

Here is another good site that reveals a lot of scientific evidence that is often overlooked.

Science Against Evolution Official Home Page

 

[Bible2]

theophilus40 said in post 6:

Many scientists hold beliefs about the origin of the earth that contradict what the Bible says but most people aren't aware of the fact that there is scientific evidence that these theories are wrong.

An old earth & evolution can be true without contradicting Biblical creationism.

For evolution per se (random mutation and survival of the fittest) can co-exist with creationism, just as an automated process created by a human (e.g. a computer program which makes random, colorful pictures which can be seen as art) can co-exist with that human sometimes performing a task himself, directly (painting some pictures by hand). That is, evolution per se can simply be a process created by God to allow new, adaptive species to arise naturally over time, and this process can co-exist with God sometimes creating new species himself, directly, i.e. miraculously, whenever he wants to (cf. punctuated equilibria).

Creationism includes what could be called the double-gap theory, meaning there could have been two different gaps of time in Gen. chs. 1-2, the first gap between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, and the second gap between Gen. 2:4 and 2:5. Gen. 1:1 could have occurred some 4.5 billion years ago, when God first created the planet earth and its atmosphere (the first heaven, in which the birds fly: Gen. 1:20b). Between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, some 4.5 billion years could have occurred, in which God could have allowed his own created process of evolution to serve as a mechanism by which new species arose on the earth. During those same 4.5 billion years, God could have also sometimes gone outside of evolution and created new species miraculously, whenever he wanted to (again, cf. punctuated equilibria).

Gen. 1:2 could refer to the condition of the earth only about 12,000 years ago (at the end of the Paleolithic period), after some cataclysm, such as a comet strike, had killed off all life on the planet (both evolved and miraculously created), and had submerged all land areas in water (comets contain huge amounts of water), and had ruined the atmosphere. The impact of the comet could have also knocked the earth out of its orbit around its original star, so that the earth was sent hurtling into the darkness of interstellar space as a "rogue planet" (astronomers estimate that rogue planets in our galaxy could outnumber the stars in our galaxy). Gen. 1:3-2:4 could then refer to God, over a period of six literal, 24-hour days (some 12,000 years ago, at the start of the Neolithic period), miraculously restoring to the earth light, a good atmosphere, dry land, and life, including a race of male and female homo sapiens sapiens, after God had miraculously restored land plants (Gen. 1:11-13) and land animals (Gen. 1:24-25) to the earth.

Then, only about 6,000 years ago, God miraculously created on the earth an individual male homo sapiens sapiens named Adam in an uninhabited desert land (Gen. 2:5-7; there, the original Hebrew word translated as "earth" can simply refer to a certain "land": e.g. Gen. 2:11). After that, God planted the plants of the local, Garden of Eden in that desert land (Gen. 2:8-9) and God placed Adam in that garden (Gen. 2:15). After that, God miraculously created the animals of the Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:19). After that, God miraculously created in the Garden of Eden an individual female homo sapiens sapiens (Gen. 2:22) whom Adam named Eve (Gen. 3:20).

Because Adam was created only about 6,000 years ago (based on Biblical chronology), yet there are homo sapiens sapiens fossils said to be as old as about 200,000 years, God could have first created homo sapiens sapiens (or it could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) as far back as about 200,000 years. Also, all the different hominid forms the fossils of which long predate or are as old as the earliest fossils of homo sapiens sapiens, and which preceding or co-existing hominid forms we don't consider to have been fully human like us (such as homo sapiens neanderthalensis), could have all been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) over millions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth.

And this doesn't even get into the possibly trillion other inhabited planets in the universe on which homo sapiens sapiens (or similar or far more advanced life-forms) could have been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) billions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth. For the universe could be about 14 billion years old, and there are something like 100 billion different galaxies, each containing something like 100 billion different stars. So even if only one star out of every ten billion stars has an inhabited planet, this would still mean there are a trillion inhabited planets. And on most of them God could have begun his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) billions of years before beginning his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) on the earth.

 

[Bible2]

theophilus40 said in post 6:

Many scientists hold beliefs about the origin of the earth that contradict what the Bible says but most people aren't aware of the fact that there is scientific evidence that these theories are wrong.

An old earth can be true without contradicting the Bible because the Bible doesn't require the earth is only 6,000 years old. All it requires is Adam was created about 6,000 years ago. For various scriptures make it possible to estimate the year BC that Adam (as opposed to the earth) was created, by working back from the year BC that Solomon's temple began to be built. Historians say it began to be built about 966 BC. And the scriptures show it began to be built 480 years after Israel's Exodus from Egypt (1 Kin. 6:1). And Israel had spent 430 years in Egypt before the Exodus (Ex. 12:40-41). And Israel entered Egypt when Jacob was 130 (Gen. 47:9). And Jacob was born when his father Isaac was 60 (Gen. 25:26). And Isaac was born when his father Abraham was 100 (Gen. 21:5). And Abraham was born when his father Terah was about 70 (Gen. 11:26). And Terah was born when his father Nahor was 29 (Gen. 11:24). And Nahor was born when his father Serug was 30 (Gen. 11:22). And Serug was born when his father Reu was 32 (Gen. 11:20). And Reu was born when his father Peleg was 30 (Gen. 11:18).

And Peleg was born when his father Eber was 34 (Gen. 11:16). And Eber was born when his father Salah was 30 (Gen. 11:14). And Salah was born when his father Arphaxad was 35 (Gen. 11:12). And Arphaxad was born when his father Shem was 100 (Gen. 11:10). And Shem was born when his father Noah was 502 (Gen. 11:10 & 7:6). And Noah was born when his father Lamech was 182 (Gen. 5:28-29). And Lamech was born when his father Methuselah was 187 (Gen. 5:25). And Methuselah was born when his father Enoch was 65 (Gen. 5:21). And Enoch was born when his father Jared was 162 (Gen. 5:18). And Jared was born when his father Mahalaleel was 65 (Gen. 5:15). And Mahalaleel was born when his father Cainan was 70 (Gen. 5:12). And Cainan was born when his father Enos was 90 (Gen. 5:9). And Enos was born when his father Seth was 105 (Gen. 5:6). And Seth was born when his father Adam was 130 (Gen. 5:3).

Adding up the numbers of years above, we see that Adam was created about 4114 BC. This lines up with the fact that our current human civilization began about 4000 BC. If Adam was created about 4114 BC, this means 6,000 years since Adam's creation were completed back at the end of about 1886 AD, and that the 7th millennium began about 1887 AD. (But this doesn't require the millennium of Rev. 20:4-6 has begun yet.) Also, it's curious that the next year (1888 AD) Blavatsky published her book (The Secret Doctrine) referring to the "New Age". Also, it's curious that the Mayan calendar begins in 3114 BC, exactly a thousand years after 4114 BC. Also, the numbers of years in the scriptures referenced above show that Abraham (who was first promised the land of Israel by God: Ex. 32:13) was born about 1948 years after Adam's creation, just as the modern state of Israel was established in 1948 AD.

--

Regarding the claim above that our current human civilization began about 4000 BC, by "current" was meant that civilization which began in the 4th millennium BC and continues on today, as opposed to any pre-Adamic human civilizations which may have existed from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years ago.

If there were pre-Adamic civilizations, they could have reached as high a level of technology as our modern technology today, for the Bible says "there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things" (Eccl. 1:9-11). And even our future technology could have already been invented during past eons, for "that which is to be hath already been" (Eccl. 3:15).

But all past-eons technology on the earth could have been completely obliterated by God, leaving no trace of it, just as all our own technology today (and in our future) will eventually be completely obliterated by God, when "the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Pet. 3:10b). Here "earth" could mean just the surface of the earth, for the planet itself could continue on forever (Eccl. 1:4, Ps. 104:5, 78:69b), so that the future "new earth" (2 Pet. 3:13, Rev. 21:1) could mean a new surface for the earth.

--

Regarding the claim above that our current human civilization began about 4000 BC, by "human" was meant human civilization in general, as opposed to the civilization of any particular people (e.g. Aztec civilization).

Also, by "human" civilization was meant civilization started by humans as opposed to any non-human animals. For preceding the first human civilization, there could have been non-human mammalian civilizations some 65 to two million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent horse-like creatures (cf. the strange horse-like creatures in Rev. 9:17-19), who could have rebelled against God and then been banished from the earth (and forced to live, perhaps, in underground bases somewhere away from the planet, such as on the far side of the moon and/or on Mars, for the future army of 200 million strange horse-like creatures in Rev. 9:16-19 will have to come from somewhere).

Preceding the first mammalian civilization, there could have been reptilian civilizations some 250 to 65 million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent dragon/dinosaur creatures (cf. Satan as being a dragon in Rev. 12:9).

And preceding the first reptilian civilization, there could have been amphibian civilizations some 350 to 250 million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent frog-like creatures, who could have rebelled against God and become unclean spirits (cf. the intelligent frog-like creatures/unclean spirits in Rev. 16:13-14).

And preceding the first amphibian civilization, there could have been insect civilizations some 450 to 350 million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent locust-like creatures (cf. the intelligent locust-like creatures in Rev. 9:3-10), who could have rebelled against God and been banished to a cavern deep underground (cf. the sealed pit in Rev. 9:1b-3,11).

 

[If Not For Grace]

Somehow we get this image in mind that it had to be done in a magical pixie dust fashion..Like Poof "cat", Poof "T-Rex", but if we look around we see there appears to be more of a system in place.

Many references are made to seed time & harvest. It is the seed that makes the Lemon Tree, the egg that hatches out the Turtles, the pressue and carbon that form the diamond, the larve that turns into the butterfly...

Perhaps if you can imagine God creating the process..by which things evolve, like the fetus that grows into the child from sperm..it would be easier for you to get your mind around. We see the light blub, not the process by which it lights which happens everytime we flip a switch-I look at creation in a similiar fashion.

But I do believe that If God is in charge of the details-He definitely did the design-like the clock that ticks away time had to have the maker. Time was here BF the clock we just did not know how to visually track it till the clock was made (I still like the ones w/all the numbers and not partial dots, how about you?)

 

[theophilus40]

An old earth & evolution can be true without contradicting Biblical creationism.

Whether or not that statement is true depends on that kind of evolution you are talking about. The word has more than one meaning and when you discuss the subject it is important to make clear what kind you are talking about. For example, there is microevolution and macroevolution.

Microevolution and Macroevolution

For evolution per se (random mutation and survival of the fittest) can co-exist with creationism, just as an automated process created by a human (e.g. a computer program which makes random, colorful pictures which can be seen as art) can co-exist with that human sometimes performing a task himself, directly (painting some pictures by hand).

For the Bible's account of creation to be true microevolution must be true. God didn't create every species and variety of life that exists today. The Bible says he created different kinds of animals and since God told Noah to take two animals of each kind on the ark the number of kinds must have been small.

Variety Within Created Kinds - Answers in Genesis

Creationism includes what could be called the double-gap theory, meaning there could have been two different gaps of time in Gen. chs. 1-2, the first gap between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, and the second gap between Gen. 2:4 and 2:5.

But is this is true then Adam and Eve wouldn't have been the first humans and the Bible clearly teaches that they were. The first verse is simply a statement that God created everything. The rest of the chapter gives a detailed description of one part of that creation, the world we live in. On the sixth day God created the first humans. Chapter two contains a detailed description of how he did this.

Because Adam was created only about 6,000 years ago (based on Biblical chronology), yet there are homo sapiens sapiens fossils said to be as old as about 200,000 years, God could have first created homo sapiens sapiens (or it could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) as far back as about 200,000 years.

There are many fossils that are said to be much older than the time the Biblical creation took place. But but who is it who says they are older? Scientists who don't believe the Biblical creation account and think that the world and the life in it came into existence by natural processes without any divine intervention. Anyone who believes this has to believe in an old earth and his beliefs and he interprets the evidence he finds to conform to his beliefs. There is no way to teat these beliefs in an old age to find out whether or not they are correct.

Search

 

[salida]

Maybe the below will help;

Scientists alive today who accept the biblical account of creation
(these people have phD's)
Mathematics | Creation Facts

 

[Bible2]

theophilus40 said in post 10:

But is this is true then Adam and Eve wouldn't have been the first humans and the Bible clearly teaches that they were.

The Bible doesn't require Adam & Eve were the first humans ever on the earth.

The first verse is simply a statement that God created everything.

Genesis 1:1 could have occurred some 4.5 billion years ago, when God first created the planet earth and its atmosphere (the first heaven, in which the birds fly: Gen. 1:20b). The universe could have been created some 14 billion years ago.

The rest of the chapter gives a detailed description of one part of that creation, the world we live in.

Between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, some 4.5 billion years could have occurred (see post 7).

On the sixth day God created the first humans.

The Bible doesn't require the humans created on the 6th day of Genesis 1:3-2:4 were the first humans ever on the earth (see post 7).

Chapter two contains a detailed description of how he did this.

Genesis 2:5-25 could have happened some 6,000 years after Genesis 1:3-2:4 (see post 7).

There are many fossils that are said to be much older than the time the Biblical creation took place. But but who is it who says they are older? Scientists who don't believe the Biblical creation account and think that the world and the life in it came into existence by natural processes without any divine intervention. Anyone who believes this has to believe in an old earth and his beliefs and he interprets the evidence he finds to conform to his beliefs.

The same could be said re: the young-earth view: It mistakenly thinks it has to reject all the evidence re: the science of dating fossils, in order to confirm its mistaken belief the Bible requires a young earth.

Instead of doing this, Christians can simply believe both the Biblical creation account & believe (or at least not feel any need to try to refute) the science re: the dating of fossils (see post 7).

 

[Spunkn]

I hesitate to get into a young earth / old earth debate here. But I did want to say just one thing about it.

If you believe that evolution is true and is in the bible then you have to place it, as the above said, in Genesis, at the creation.

This poses numerous problems when you do that for the rest of the Bible. If there was evolution before Adam and Eve, animals were dying. There was cancer, disease, death, decay and all that stuff before the fall of man kind. When God was done creating, He said everything was "very good". So is death, decay, disease very good in God's eyes? Did God intend for animals & humans to die, have cancer, diseases etc or was that a result of the fall?

If death was not a punishment for sin, then why was Christ forced to come as fully human / fully God and die on the Cross? Why was blood required for the penalty for sin?

I do not think you can believe in both evolution and the Bible. There's too many problems.

 

[Bible2]

Spunkn said in post 13:

When God was done creating, He said everything was "very good".

That's right.

But all the references to "good" in Gen. 1:4-31 can refer to only the initial state of what God created on the earth during only the six, literal, 24-hour days of Gen. 1:3-31, not necessarily to everything that God could have created on the earth before that (see post 7).

If death was not a punishment for sin, then why was Christ forced to come as fully human / fully God and die on the Cross? Why was blood required for the penalty for sin?

Death is the punishment for sin (Ezek. 18:4). We in the present, Adamic line of humans die because of Adam's and our own sin (Rom. 5:17-19).

Similarly, any humans created before Adam which died would have died because of sin.

-

Regarding "why was Christ forced to come as fully human / fully God and die on the Cross? Why was blood required for the penalty for sin?", that's because of what Hebrews 9:22-28 says.

Also, Jesus Christ's suffering during his Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 Jn. 2:2) because Jesus isn't just a human, but also God (Jn. 1:1,14, 10:30, 20:28): His soul is infinite, & so the suffering of his soul (Isa. 53:11) was infinite in amount, even though it wasn't infinite in duration. And so his suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isa. 53:11), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Mt. 25:46). Because humans who aren't God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins, they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Mt. 25:46, Rev. 14:10-11, Mk. 9:46). Every earthly human has sinned (Rom. 3:23), except Jesus (Heb. 4:15b, 2 Cor. 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Pet. 3:18, Isa. 53:11) an infinite amount, when the elect repent from their sins & believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice, they can have their past sins forgiven (Rom. 3:25-26, Mt. 26:28), while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isa. 53:11).

-

It's always good to emphasize that Jesus Christ is God (Jn. 1:1,14, 10:30, 20:28, Titus 2:13, Philip. 2:6, Mt. 1:23), & that he's uncreated God, just as God the Father is uncreated God, for everything that's been created has been created by Jesus (Jn. 1:3, Col. 1:16-17). Because Jesus is uncreated, there was never a time when he was not; he's always existed: he's YHWH the Holy One, from everlasting (Hab. 1:12a, Acts 3:14, Mic. 5:2c). Jesus is YHWH the only Savior (Isa. 43:11, Titus 2:13), YHWH the good shepherd (Ps. 23:1, Jn. 10:11, Mk. 10:18), YHWH who will set his feet on the Mount of Olives at his return (Zech. 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12), YHWH who is the first & the last (Isa. 44:6, Rev. 2:8), YHWH the great I AM (Ex. 3:14, Jn. 8:58), the great God (Titus 2:13), the mighty God (Isa. 9:6), one God with God the Father (Jn. 10:30, 20:28), equal in divinity with God the Father (Philip. 2:6).

Just as the Trinity of Father, Son, & Holy Spirit (Mt. 28:19) is the 3 distinct, coexisting Persons (Mk. 1:9-11) of God the Father (Gal. 1:3), God the Son (Heb. 1:8), & God the Holy Spirit (cf. Mk. 13:11 & Mt. 10:19-20, Acts 5:3-4), so the Trinity is YHWH the Father, YHWH the Son, & YHWH the Holy Spirit, for YHWH is the only God (Isa. 45:5-6). He has always been & forever will be the only God (Isa. 43:10b).

There are so many different ways to illustrate the Trinity it shouldn't be difficult for every Christian to get at least some realization of it. While there's no sufficient analogy to completely explain God (Isa. 40:18), how he can be one God & yet 3 Persons at the same time, the Bible does refer to God speaking things into existence (Gen. 1:3; Heb. 11:3). What God spoke was his Word, who is that Person of the Trinity who has become flesh in Jesus (Jn. 1:1,14, 1 Tim. 3:16, Lk. 24:39). But God the Word existed even before God the Father spoke anything into existence, for all things created were created by God the Word (Jn. 1:1-3, Col. 1:16-17). And the original Greek word in Jn. 1:1,14 for "Word" is "Logos", which refers not only to spoken words, but also to any ordered thoughts. Clearly, God has always had ordered thoughts, so God the Word has always existed.

So a human analogy for God would have God the Father as the mind, & God the Word as the ordered thoughts, speech, & writings (incarnate words) of that mind. God the Holy Spirit would then be analogous to the breath (spirit) which is inextricable from human speech, & is also inextricable from ordered thought, in that a non-breathing person is dead & his brain has no thoughts. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) is one God with God the Father & God the Word because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father (Mt. 10:19-20 & Mk. 13:11) & the Spirit of the Word (Jn. 14:16-18, Rom. 8:9). While an individual human isn't 3 persons, the truth about God can still be grasped by looking at man's design, for man was made in God's image (Gen. 1:26). Just as an individual man has his word (Rev. 12:11) & his spirit (1 Thes. 5:23), so the one God has his Word (Jn. 1:1) & his Spirit (Rom. 8:9). But the one God is so infinitely greater than man (Isa. 40:17), the Word of God & the Spirit of God are distinct Persons within his being.

Besides the analogy of a single human's mind, thoughts/speech/writings, & breath, the Trinity can also be compared to the single sun's sphere, light, & heat. The Father would be analogous to the sun's sphere, which is invisible to humans except for its visible light, which is analogous to the incarnate, visible Word (Col. 1:15, Jn. 14:9). And the sun is felt by humans via its invisible, infrared rays, which would be analogous to the Spirit. The Trinity can also be compared to water, which even though it's only one substance, it can exist in 3 distinct states of solid, liquid, & gas at the same time (such as in a water pitcher 2/3 full with water & ice cubes, & with water vapor filling the top third of the pitcher). The Trinity can also be compared to space, which even though it's only one area, it consists of 3 distinct dimensions at the same time. The Trinity can also be compared to 1x1x1=1, or 1a x 1b x 1c = 1abc.

I do not think you can believe in both evolution and the Bible. There's too many problems.

There aren't any problems (see post 7).

 

[Spunkn]

Similarly, any humans created before Adam which died would have died because of sin.

You cannot have sin before Adam and Eve because sin didn't come into the world until after Adam and Eve chose to disobey God. There was no one else before them. It was a direct result of their disobedience, and death was a direct penalty for their sin.

 

[Bible2]

Spunkn said in post 15:

You cannot have sin before Adam and Eve because sin didn't come into the world until after Adam and Eve chose to disobey God.

The Bible doesn't require that. All it requires is that sin & death didn't come upon the Adamic line of humans until Adam sinned (Rom. 5:17-19).

There was no one else before them.

See post 12.

It was a direct result of their disobedience, and death was a direct penalty for their sin.

That's right, with regard to the Adamic line of humans, the line which is alive on the earth today.

 

[Spunkn]

The Bible doesn't require that. All it requires is that sin & death didn't come upon the Adamic line of humans until Adam sinned (Rom. 5:17-19).



See post 12.



That's right, with regard to the Adamic line of humans, the line which is alive on the earth today.

Where are you getting in the Bible that there were humans before Adam and Eve?

 

[Bible2]

Spunkn said in post 17:

Where are you getting in the Bible that there were humans before Adam and Eve?

Genesis chapters 1-2 can be read in that way (see the "second gap" part of post 7).

 

[theophilus40]

Spunkn said in post 17:

Where are you getting in the Bible that there were humans before Adam and Eve?

Genesis chapters 1-2 can be read in that way (see the "second gap" part of post 7).

If you hold some belief that you are unwilling to give up the Bible can always be read in such a way as to conform to that belief but that isn't what the Bible says.

And Elijah came near to all the people and said, “How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him.”
(1 Kings 18:21 ESV)
​

There are two different opinions as to how the world and life came into existence: the secular belief that they developed over billions of years by natural processes that are still going on today or the belief that they were created by God. How long will you go limping between two different opinions? Choose one or the other.

 

[Spunkn]

Genesis chapters 1-2 can be read in that way (see the "second gap" part of post 7).

Where does it specifically say there were other humans before Adam and Eve? You are inserting things into the Bible that aren't there. This is all based on "science" from an evolutionary perspective, which I disagree with.