Question to all Christian

[Zeena]

I find that that is an insult to my dignity.

Since when did a pool of primordial ooze have dignity?
The sin you are describing is pride!
And it's found within your soul

 

[DonkDat]

Since when did a pool of primordial ooze have dignity?
The sin you are describing is pride!
And it's found within your soul

Haha is that a joke.

*googles primordial ooze"

1.constituting a beginning; giving origin to something derived or developed; original; elementary: primordial forms of life. 2.Embryology. first formed. 3.pertaining to or existing at or from the very beginning: primordial matter.

And I am well aware that you consider pride a sin. I think pride is actualy something that makes human special. No other animal in the world has it. Pride is the sense that what we did was right, or that we did a good job. I am proud of my accomplishments. We should be proud of our accomplishments, and not let someone else take the credit. God does not help us win a hockey game. Our own sweat and hardwork got us there.

I am proud of who I am, and of what I have accomplish. I will not demean it by giving credit to everyonw but the one person that earned it; me.

Have a goodnight.

David S.

 

[MikeMcK]

One can be proven, the other cannot. God cannot be interacted with objectively.

Of course He can. Millions of us do it every day.

That you say He can't brings into question your claim to be an "ex-Christian". If you weren't interacting with God when you say you were a Christian, then what on Earth were you doing?

Research the chemical dopamine. That is your answer for all so called personal encounter with christ, visions, speaking in tongue, ect.

I see. So then, does dopamine also explain the stars in the sky? The grass? Our exsistence?

The truth is, I was a paramedic for many years. I know about dopamine. It doesn't explain away relationships.

Observable evidence? Prove it. Mind you, only objective evidence is acceptable, so nothing subjective please.

Sure. The Bible tells us that there will be behaviors that we will exhibit and that our character will change.

I don't really care about the "ex christian" thing. If you want, I am an atheist. It changes nothing.

If you don't care about it, then why are you spending so much time arguing for it?

Proven his existence? Really. Now THAT is hilarious. I hear religious people saying everyday that there is no proof, just faith. Show me your evidence, and I might consider taking this part seriously.

Actually, I've already shown you evidence. Address that and I'll show you more.

My conscienceness exists because my mind exists.

Why does your mind exist?

My life exists because my parents had sex and had me as a child.

Where did your parents come from?

My friend's exists because their parents had sex.

Where did your parents come from?

Nothing you are saying is vertifiable. Prove to me that your god did this.

You just pointed out another possible problem in your bible. If that word was translated wrong, how can we take the rest of it to be true? On faith? Hah.

The word wasn't translated wrong. Murder is a kind of killing.

That man was not my brother, as much as you want to believe he is.

God says He is and God's standard is the one by which you'll be judged.

And I am a murderer at heart? Really? Protecting my little cousin, and my own life is considered murder?

No, because you've admitted that you've committed hatred.

Very well then, then I am a murderer. And I am proud of it.

So then, how is it that you ask how we're supposed to love murderers when you're guilty of the same crime.

Nor will I beg for forgiveness because what I did was the right thing. If your god is vindictive enough to send me to hell to be tortured for eternity, that merely proves my point about your god.

It isn't a matter of vindictiveness. It's a matter of justice. Sin has to be punished.

And I do not agree with your definition. Murder is when you unlawfully take someone's life. Killing is when you take someone's life with a just cause. Such as self defence. What I did was not murder, because I was defending a loved one, and my own life.

How did you defend someone by hating?

One can only be forgiven by the person one has wronged. Your God has no right to forgive me of my wrongs, because only the person I have wronged has that power.

And God is the one you've offended by transgressing His laws. So God is the one you need to ask forgiveness from.

 

[Zeena]

You take judgment into your own hands when you hate another human being..

God WILL judge, and He, unlike you or I, will judge Righteously!

Galatians 6:3
For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

 

[DonkDat]

Of course He can. Millions of us do it every day.

So he sits down next to you, and chats with you? Interesting. Prove it. Just because you say millions pray to god everyday, does not mean that he interacts with us. Praying to the holy milk jug will give you the same results. If I said millions of people pray to the holy jug of milk, and we get answered, what would you say?

That you say He can't brings into question your claim to be an "ex-Christian". If you weren't interacting with God when you say you were a Christian, then what on Earth were you doing?

Apparently I was looking for a legitimate answer. In looking back, it seem like I wasted about 2 years of my life.

I see. So then, does dopamine also explain the stars in the sky? The grass? Our exsistence?

The truth is, I was a paramedic for many years. I know about dopamine. It doesn't explain away relationships.

Stars are real. Completely proven. Grass, well unless you are unable to grasp the concept of the word, is proven. Existence needs no evidence. One of the 3 axioms in Objectivism and Reasonism is that Existence Exist. If you deny existence, then you don't exist. If you don't exist, then your point does not exist. If your point does not exist, then your arguement is invalid. Thus I win.

No, but it explains away all the hallucinations that religous people have. The common defence against this used by mystics is "You just don't have enough faith. I know it is real." Scientist have already proven its effects. If you are going to reject it, then you are rejecting the truth.

Sure. The Bible tells us that there will be behaviors that we will exhibit and that our character will change.

The bible is unreliable. Try again.

If you don't care about it, then why are you spending so much time arguing for it?

I said I don't care about what you call me. If you are asking why I care so much about religion, word it better next time. I care because religion effects me. From anti stem-cell research to anti homosexual remarks, to sexism towards women, ect. When your beliefs stop effecting me, then I will stop being such a huge advocate against it.

Actually, I've already shown you evidence. Address that and I'll show you more.

No you have not. You have showed me subjective "evidence" which, in reality, is an insult to true evidence.

Why does your mind exist?

Because my brain exists. Don't ask why does my brain exist.

Where did your parents come from?

My grand parents. Don't ask where did my grandparents come from.

Where did your parents come from?

Look up.

The word wasn't translated wrong. Murder is a kind of killing.

I explained the difference between murder and killing.

God says He is and God's standard is the one by which you'll be judged.

God says thou shall not work on sunday or you will be put to death. God says a lot of things I do not agree with. This is just another example.

No, because you've admitted that you've committed hatred.

What? Your wording sucks. Try again.

So then, how is it that you ask how we're supposed to love murderers when you're guilty of the same crime.

Oh I forgot something.

"Very well then, I am a murderer. /end sarcasm. And I am proud of it."

I need to remember that certain people are unable to see sarcasm.

It isn't a matter of vindictiveness. It's a matter of justice. Sin has to be punished.

Indeed it is. Because I did the right thing, and just because it goes against his "laws" I am to be punished for eternity. And I lol'd at the justice part.

How did you defend someone by hating?

I used the rage in me to block out all emotions, except the hunger to kill him. It helps blocks the pain, so I can fight harder. You can't go into a fight happy.

And God is the one you've offended by transgressing His laws. So God is the one you need to ask forgiveness from.

Wrong. I offended the person I have wronged. And I will not ask forgiveness from him.

Hope you have a good day/night.

David S.

 

[Calminian]

Well, I am a former Christian. Last year, in grade 10, I realized that Christianity was not for me. Why? Because it is both illogical and based entirely on faith. I do not like faith, because it is the absense of reason.

This is indeed what many are taught both in and out of the church. "Just have faith." The problem is the word faith has taken on modern connotations that didn't exist in the thinking of the biblical writers. Unfortunately fideism (the idea that reason has no place in religious matters) became widely accepted in christian thinking probably about the time skeptic David Hume wrote his critique on miracles in "An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding." This is really when the idea of blind faith became popular in christian thinking. But this was certainly not the thinking of the biblical writers nor the early fathers, nor the reformers, etc., etc. Whoever taught you that christianity was about blind faith did you a great disservice. Here's an article I highly recommend to help you understand true biblical faith.

Fallacious Faith
Correcting an All-too-Common Misconception

 

[DonkDat]

Nobody taught me about the blind faith concept. I came to it on my own.

 

[Calminian]

Nobody taught me about the blind faith concept. I came to it on my own.

It's sounds like, then, the faith you thought you had really wasn't a true christian faith based on the biblical understanding of faith.

 

[DonkDat]

Theres a true version?? Wow, you would think all the other denominations pick it up and follow the "true" version.

Explain please.

 

[ebia]

Theres a true version??

Yes, mine.

Wow, you would think all the other denominations pick it up and follow the "true" version.

You would, wouldn't you.

 

[MikeMcK]

So he sits down next to you, and chats with you? Interesting. Prove it. Just because you say millions pray to god everyday, does not mean that he interacts with us.

I've already shown you the evidence.

Apparently I was looking for a legitimate answer. In looking back, it seem like I wasted about 2 years of my life.

Either you were interacting with God, in which case you cannot be an atheist, or you were not interacting with God, in which case you weren't a Christian.

Which was it?

Stars are real. Completely proven. Grass, well unless you are unable to grasp the concept of the word, is proven. Existence needs no evidence. One of the 3 axioms in Objectivism and Reasonism is that Existence Exist. If you deny existence, then you don't exist. If you don't exist, then your point does not exist. If your point does not exist, then your arguement is invalid. Thus I win.

Yes, we understand that God's creation does exist. Now, where did it come from?

No, but it explains away all the hallucinations that religous people have.

But what about those of us who've never had hallucinations?

The bible is unreliable. Try again.

OK. Since you're such a big believer in evidence, why don't you give us some evidence to show that the Bible is unreliable?

From anti stem-cell research to anti homosexual remarks, to sexism towards women, ect. When your beliefs stop effecting me, then I will stop being such a huge advocate against it.

First of all, Christianity does not teach "sexism" against women. In fact, had you bothered to read the Bible during that time you claim to have been a Christian, you'd know that women were land owners, which was unheard of in that time and society, they were judges and prophetesses, they were leaders in the NT church, and some of the biggest heroes of the OT were women.

Second, Christianity does not say anything one way or the other about stem cell research.

Third, if you're going to say that you're against Christianity for what it teaches about homosexuality, then are you also against Christianity because of what it teaches about stealing, murder and purjury?

No you have not. You have showed me subjective "evidence" which, in reality, is an insult to true evidence.

Actually, you've already admitted that at least one of the evidences is true.

Because my brain exists. Don't ask why does my brain exist.

Why not? It's a perfectly reasonable question. Where did your brain come from? What happened to cause you to have a brain?

My grand parents. Don't ask where did my grandparents come from.

So then, your grandparents just materialized out of thin air?

I explained the difference between murder and killing.

But the problem is that you brought it up in the context of what the Bible says about it.

If you're going to try to argue the word based on what the Bible says, then you've got to go by the Bible's definition.

God says thou shall not work on sunday or you will be put to death. God says a lot of things I do not agree with. This is just another example.

And, once again, the fact that you do not know the Old Covenant from the New Covenant, why the OC is passed away, or why that is so important calls into question your claim to have been a Christian.

It also makes me wonder, if you don't even know the basics of Christianity, what grounds you have to say that it can't be true.

What? Your wording sucks. Try again.

No, I asked you if you've ever hated someone and you said "yes".

"Very well then, I am a murderer. /end sarcasm. And I am proud of it."

I need to remember that certain people are unable to see sarcasm.

You may be being sarcastic when you say that you're a murderer, but Jesus was very much sincere when He said that anyone who hates another person has committed murder.

Indeed it is. Because I did the right thing, and just because it goes against his "laws" I am to be punished for eternity. And I lol'd at the justice part.

The "right thing" by who's standard?

I used the rage in me to block out all emotions, except the hunger to kill him. It helps blocks the pain, so I can fight harder. You can't go into a fight happy.

You know what I mean. The bottom line is that you have no excuse before God.

Wrong. I offended the person I have wronged. And I will not ask forgiveness from him.

By transgressing God's laws, you've offended God. He's the one you need to ask for forgiveness.

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

I feel he is very resonable, he gives us many reasons to love us an example that that he wakes you up everyday something that doesn't have to happen.Yes, he wipped out the world, but the people had a choice, those same people were the same ones who teasing and making fun of what God was doing he even used Noah to warn them.Plus he promised he would never wipe out the whole world by flooding it.If your neighbour is a murder/rapist still love them, you can't pray for them you don't have to be friends with them, just pray for them and all.In the christian they might see the light of God shining through the person.

 

[Confess]

Well, I am a former Christian. Last year, in grade 10, I realized that Christianity was not for me. Why? Because it is both illogical and based entirely on faith. I do not like faith, because it is the absense of reason.

My question: How do you manage to believe in something that is completely unreasonable? God asks you to love him, yet he gives us no reason to love him. God tells us to not kill people, yet he single handily wiped out every living creature when he flooded the world. Jesus tells us to love our neighbour. What if our neighbour is a murderer/rapist?

Your view of God is skewed and therefore it is understandable why your faith is weak or gone.

God shows his love for us to the point where he allowed his only begotten son to die for me. God didn't want me to burn for eternity, so he sent his son to be humiliated and killed so that I may spend eternity in heaven

Daily, I see his blessings for me and my children. I have had 7 sucessful and healthy babies ... that is unheard of for many people. My husband is the sole provider and we live a wonderful life without going hungry or without.

RE: Do not kill

God attempted to wipe out all the sin in the world and start new. The sin in the world grieved God and thus he sent the flood to wipe it out.

RE: Love your neighbor

Just because someone is bad doesn't mean we cannot treat them with love. Sure some people are harder then others to love, but that is life. Are we to go around and hate others? Is that healthy? Hate often causes more grief then love.

 

[DonkDat]

Yes, mine.


You would, wouldn't you. Idiots.

Indeed.

*rolls eyes*

 

[DonkDat]

I feel he is very resonable, he gives us many reasons to love us an example that that he wakes you up everyday something that doesn't have to happen.Yes, he wipped out the world, but the people had a choice, those same people were the same ones who teasing and making fun of what God was doing he even used Noah to warn them.Plus he promised he would never wipe out the whole world by flooding it.If your neighbour is a murder/rapist still love them, you can't pray for them you don't have to be friends with them, just pray for them and all.In the christian they might see the light of God shining through the person.

I make fun of God everyday...by not believing in him =)

Im sorry, but I cannot love someone I disagree with morally. That would make a mockery of love. Actually, no I am not sorry.

I rather have the light of reason than the blanket of faitih.

Have a good one.

David S.

 

[DonkDat]

Your view of God is skewed and therefore it is understandable why your faith is weak or gone.

Its gone. The only faith I have is "rational" faith which in a sense is contradictory.

Ie: I have faith that my friends will support me in most things in life. Do I know for sure? Nope. Am I willing to bet that they will? Yes. Do I have evidence? Yes.

God shows his love for us to the point where he allowed his only begotten son to die for me. God didn't want me to burn for eternity, so he sent his son to be humiliated and killed so that I may spend eternity in heaven

Again, I find that interesting. You support a religion that is based around human sacrifice. If he was truly all powerful, he wouldnt need to do something so barbaric to make sure we don't suffer for eternity.

Daily, I see his blessings for me and my children. I have had 7 sucessful and healthy babies ... that is unheard of for many people. My husband is the sole provider and we live a wonderful life without going hungry or without.

Wow 7 children? Busy busy =D

I would assume your husband is a hard, dedicated worker. Give him the credit he deserves, and not to God.

RE: Do not kill

God attempted to wipe out all the sin in the world and start new. The sin in the world grieved God and thus he sent the flood to wipe it out.

So in other words, he made a mistake and started over? Thought he was perfect...silly me.

RE: Love your neighbor

Just because someone is bad doesn't mean we cannot treat them with love. Sure some people are harder then others to love, but that is life. Are we to go around and hate others? Is that healthy? Hate often causes more grief then love.

No, you cannot. Perhaps compassion, if the crime is not serious, but rape, torture, and murder? Never. Some crimes are unforgiveable.

I don't value them enough to hate them. I hate everything they do, but not the person. I can't waste my time hating each individual person that commits those crimes, because they are not worth my time. If I hate someone, then it shows I "care" enough to hate them.

Have a good one.

David S.

 

[DonkDat]

I've already shown you the evidence.

No, you haven't.

Either you were interacting with God, in which case you cannot be an atheist, or you were not interacting with God, in which case you weren't a Christian.

Which was it?

I WAS a christian. Now I am an atheist.

Yes, we understand that God's creation does exist. Now, where did it come from?

A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking. Enjoy.

But what about those of us who've never had hallucinations?

Any kind of "vision" or "personal encounters" are hallucinations. Unless you have an example, that is my answer.

OK. Since you're such a big believer in evidence, why don't you give us some evidence to show that the Bible is unreliable?

It is 2000 years old, second hand unreliable report. A flood that covered the entire world? Impossible. Not enough H2O in the entire world. How about all the mass murder God order us to do? Stone your wife if you find she is not a virgin? Cut off your son's hands if he is disobedient. Ect. Any of the 100s of contradictions are examples.

First of all, Christianity does not teach "sexism" against women. In fact, had you bothered to read the Bible during that time you claim to have been a Christian, you'd know that women were land owners, which was unheard of in that time and society, they were judges and prophetesses, they were leaders in the NT church, and some of the biggest heroes of the OT were women.

*rolls eyes*

Second, Christianity does not say anything one way or the other about stem cell research.

Really? Watch the news occasionally, or better yet read the newspaper.

Third, if you're going to say that you're against Christianity for what it teaches about homosexuality, then are you also against Christianity because of what it teaches about stealing, murder and purjury?

Hahahahahahaha.

I am against murder and stealing because it is in my moral code. I do not need religion to tell me what is right or wrong.

Actually, you've already admitted that at least one of the evidences is true.

That is?

Why not? It's a perfectly reasonable question. Where did your brain come from? What happened to cause you to have a brain?

Learn about biology.

So then, your grandparents just materialized out of thin air?

I will answer when you come up with an actual question.
.

But the problem is that you brought it up in the context of what the Bible says about it.

If you're going to try to argue the word based on what the Bible says, then you've got to go by the Bible's definition.

No, I do not have to. I go with the actual definition of the word, not what you want it to say.

And, once again, the fact that you do not know the Old Covenant from the New Covenant, why the OC is passed away, or why that is so important calls into question your claim to have been a Christian.

It also makes me wonder, if you don't even know the basics of Christianity, what grounds you have to say that it can't be true.

Hahaha. Jesus told us that the Old Testament should be followed.

Irrationality is the grounds. If it is irrational, you don't need anymore evidence to reject it.

No, I asked you if you've ever hated someone and you said "yes".

And?

You may be being sarcastic when you say that you're a murderer, but Jesus was very much sincere when He said that anyone who hates another person has committed murder.

And Jesus is a leader I do not follow. Thus I do not agree witih him.

The "right thing" by who's standard?

Society and mine.

You know what I mean. The bottom line is that you have no excuse before God.

I dont make excuses.

By transgressing God's laws, you've offended God. He's the one you need to ask for forgiveness.

Wrong. I have already told you why.

Have a good day.

David S.

 

[MikeMcK]

OK. I gave it my best shot.

I guess the big question now is, what do you hope to accomplish here?

 

[DonkDat]

Indeed. Why am I here?

Perhaps wondering why people put aside their rationality for something irrational. Maybe I'm looking for the truth. Lots of reasons. Take your pick.

David S.

 

[MikeMcK]

Indeed. Why am I here?

Perhaps wondering why people put aside their rationality for something irrational. Maybe I'm looking for the truth. Lots of reasons. Take your pick.

David S.

Well, we've answered your questions as to why we believe in God and, when presented with truth, you won't accept it.

So it looks like your mission is accomplished. No reason for you to hang around now.