Question to all Christian

[Zeena]

Nobody taught me about the blind faith concept. I came to it on my own.

Mark 4:6
But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Jeremiah 4:3
For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.

 

[DonkDat]

Mark 4:6
But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Jeremiah 4:3
For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.

If you are refering root as faith, then indeed I have no faith. I don't want to believe, I want to know. (paraphasing Carl Sagan's wife.) And the only way I will know is when I challenge every idea. If the idea is correct, or even holds some merit, then it will not falter.

With faith, you can believe in anything, and be "right." I can say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the true God. I can show you a book, written by a hundred people 5000 years ago, that proves his existence. Can you disprove me? No, of course not. It flys in space, watching over us. But why does it allow children to suffer? Because the FSM knows whats best. Can you show me the FSM? No, in the holy book, it decrees we are never to see the FSM until we die. But how do you know that the FSM exists? You must have faith. Once you have faith, you will know.

Have a goodnight.

David S.

 

[DonkDat]

Well, we've answered your questions as to why we believe in God and, when presented with truth, you won't accept it.

So it looks like your mission is accomplished. No reason for you to hang around now.

Truth? Sorry, but that is laughable.

And I do have reason to hang around. I am actually having some intelligent discussions through pms.

Have a goodnight.

David S.

 

[Zeena]

If you are refering root as faith, then indeed I have no faith. I don't want to believe, I want to know. (paraphasing Carl Sagan's wife.) And the only way I will know is when I challenge every idea. If the idea is correct, or even holds some merit, then it will not falter.

With faith, you can believe in anything, and be "right." I can say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the true God. I can show you a book, written by a hundred people 5000 years ago, that proves his existence. Can you disprove me? No, of course not. It flys in space, watching over us. But why does it allow children to suffer? Because the FSM knows whats best. Can you show me the FSM? No, in the holy book, it decrees we are never to see the FSM until we die. But how do you know that the FSM exists? You must have faith. Once you have faith, you will know.

Have a goodnight.

David S.

And did YOU, know Him?
Or rather, were you known BY Him?!?

 

[MikeMcK]

...

 

[DonkDat]

And did YOU, know Him?
Or rather, were you known BY Him?!?

Uh...yeah...that made no sense haha.

*attempts to answer anyways*

Did I know god? Nope. You can't know the something that does not exist, or is unwilling to respond.

Obviously if God exists, he would know me since he is all knowing.

Have a good one.

David S.

 

[Confess]

Donkat,
I hear what you are saying and am sorry for your shortsightedness. Reasoning often limits things. Reasoning out God's word is what started this whole mess to begin with. Adam and Eve reasoned out God's word and didn't truly believe that anything bad was going to happen to them if they disobeyed. Now look at us. We would have had it perfect and you would have faith if that didn't happen.

As for the flood:
Reasoning and lack of knowledge as to what the Bible says does make one think that God made a mistake. But digging deeper you will note that the whole Old Testament is filled with examples where men try and try to save themselves and fail. God shows us that the faithful people of God cannot marry unbelievers because we naturally gravitate to unbelief and our faith will get corrupt. God allowed it to happen to teach us about our faith. There are so many crazy stories in the Old Testament that God allowed for us to read and learn about just so that we can come to the understanding that our ways will not save us.

The only way to save us from the mess we are in is for a perfect sacrifice to be made. Our nasty sin needed to punished and removed from God's sight. If you want to allow that sacrifice to creep you out or to appear to not make sense to you, then fine. That is the life you choose to lead, you seem willing to deal with its consequences.

 

[DonkDat]

I hear what you are saying and am sorry for your shortsightedness. Reasoning often limits things. Reasoning out God's word is what started this whole mess to begin with. Adam and Eve reasoned out God's word and didn't truly believe that anything bad was going to happen to them if they disobeyed. Now look at us. We would have had it perfect and you would have faith if that didn't happen.

Essentially that is why reason is so important. It creates boundarys. It separates what is real and what is fantasy. Also, I do appreciate your lightly put insult =). Attacking the person and not attacking their point is such an effective method of discussion!

Adam and Eve were unfairly punished. Firstly, they were the FIRST human beings in existence. They have no conept of good or evil, right or wrong, smart, or stupid. God created them with these fallacys, KNOWING that they WILL commit their sins. He then punished them because they disobeyed him. The problem with this is that God KNEW what that he was going to kick them out, unless you are ruling out that God is omnicient. If he is, why didn't he just step in and tell them not to eat it, when they were going to? Free will? Hah. God knowing what they will do eliminates free will.

Now, for the second part. If god was truly merciful and forgiving, why did he wait 4000 years to forgive us of our sins? The crimes of a father (mother) do not pass to their son (daughter).

As for the flood:
Reasoning and lack of knowledge as to what the Bible says does make one think that God made a mistake. But digging deeper you will note that the whole Old Testament is filled with examples where men try and try to save themselves and fail. God shows us that the faithful people of God cannot marry unbelievers because we naturally gravitate to unbelief and our faith will get corrupt. God allowed it to happen to teach us about our faith. There are so many crazy stories in the Old Testament that God allowed for us to read and learn about just so that we can come to the understanding that our ways will not save us.

Haha, and again I tell you that the Old Testament is filled with fallacys.

And are you now telling us that we are not allowed to choose who to marry? Thanks for another limitation on my freedom. Not appreciated.

You do not put enough value in mankind. Perhaps you should praise the people that actualy DO something, and not the supposed deity that works behind the scenes, but will not prove his existence.

The only way to save us from the mess we are in is for a perfect sacrifice to be made. Our nasty sin needed to punished and removed from God's sight. If you want to allow that sacrifice to creep you out or to appear to not make sense to you, then fine. That is the life you choose to lead, you seem willing to deal with its consequences.

Sacrifice = Jesus right? Tell me, why does the almighty lord need to steep to such a low as human sacrifice to forgive us of our sins? Why not just forgive us the sins? We need to be cleansed? Is that it? Well if he is all powerful, he should be able to do that too.

Indeed I am willing to deal with the consequences. If your God is at all just, then he would judge me by the way I lived, not of my beliefs. Then again, Im not sure if I want to spend the rest of eternity floating around the clouds. Scared of heights and all...

Have a good one.

David S.

 

[Misty Minister]

Well, I am a former Christian. Last year, in grade 10, I realized that Christianity was not for me. Why? Because it is both illogical and based entirely on faith. I do not like faith, because it is the absense of reason.

My question: How do you manage to believe in something that is completely unreasonable? God asks you to love him, yet he gives us no reason to love him. God tells us to not kill people, yet he single handily wiped out every living creature when he flooded the world. Jesus tells us to love our neighbour. What if our neighbour is a murderer/rapist?

It sounds to me like you have been involved with the wrong type of Christianity. I would not be a Christian either if I thought what you present a the faith was the faith.

 

[Zeena]

Sacrifice = Jesus right? Tell me, why does the almighty lord need to steep to such a low as human sacrifice to forgive us of our sins? Why not just forgive us the sins? We need to be cleansed? Is that it? Well if he is all powerful, he should be able to do that too.

You really don't know what the cross of Christ entails do you..

1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In the Christ's Life we not only see Life, but get to Live it!

In His death, we not only get to see death, but die it!

When Jesus was crucified I was crucified with Him, by Faith! And He makes it my Living experience [to witness the Life of Jesus in me] as I yeild to Him to do so!

You've been under the impression that all Jesus came to do was to cover us with His Blood for the propitiation for our sin.. But this is only the beginning of a Living relationship with the Living God!

He came to GIVE HIS LIFE!
The ULTIMATE sacrifice!

 

[DonkDat]

You really don't know what the cross of Christ entails do you..

I look at it in reality. You may jazz it up by saying he did it for us, but the plain, cold truth is that it is human sacrifice.

1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
In the Christ's Life we not only see Life, but get to Live it!

I again do not agree with that. You live life for your own happiness.

In His death, we not only get to see death, but die it!

I am not exactly ready to die yet haha.

When Jesus was crucified I was crucified with Him, by Faith! And He makes it my Living experience [to witness the Life of Jesus in me] as I yeild to Him to do so!

Perhaps you were...I wasnt around back then. I yield to no one. My life is my own, and no one has a right to it.

You've been under the impression that all Jesus came to do was to cover us with His Blood for the propitiation for our sin.. But this is only the beginning of a Living relationship with the Living God!

Sigh...if only you could show me evidence that he exists. Then, and only then will he be taken seriously by me.

He came to GIVE HIS LIFE!
The ULTIMATE sacrifice!

The ultimate sacrifice is subjective. To me, my freedom is more valuable than life. Sacrificing my freedom will hurt me infinitely more so then sacrificing my life. And I would only be willing to sacrifice anything for something of equal or greater value TO ME.

Hey, could you, for future reference, bold or highlight the relevant bits of quotes you use from the bible? That way I don't have to sit there comtemplating what you mean! Only if you can, of course.

Have a goodnight.

David S.

 

[DonkDat]

It sounds to me like you have been involved with the wrong type of Christianity. I would not be a Christian either if I thought what you present a the faith was the faith.

I am told by, quite literaly, every Christian I meet that I am involved with the wrong type of Christianity! Why should your type of Christianity be the right one over another? An even better one is why is your religion/God the right one, over the thousand other gods/religions?

Have a good one.

David S.

 

[Zeena]

The ultimate sacrifice is subjective. To me, my freedom is more valuable than life. Sacrificing my freedom will hurt me infinitely more so then sacrificing my life. And I would only be willing to sacrifice anything for something of equal or greater value TO ME.

Jesus is God Allmighty, therefore indefinately more valuable than you or I, or you and I put together! He's the creator, and He proved His Love [part of Love being good intentions] in laying down His own Life!

If it didn't need to be done He wouldn't have done it! But we NEEDED Him, so He came!

The ultimate sacrifice is subjective. To me, my freedom is more valuable than life. Sacrificing my freedom will hurt me infinitely more so then sacrificing my life. And I would only be willing to sacrifice anything for something of equal or greater value TO ME.
Have a goodnight.

David S.

David, it really does hurt to kick against the bricks..
God is immovable and immutable, and when you say the freedom He offers is nothing in comparison with your self-denfined freedom you thereby limit yourself to being in a box! God is outside of the box David!!!

For as long as you live He will continue to witness to you!
Your railings do nothing to disauade Him! HeH
The price for your sin has already been paid!

 

[DonkDat]

Jesus is God Allmighty, therefore indefinately more valuable than you or I, or you and I put together! He's the creator, and He proved His Love [part of Love being good intentions] in laying down His own Life!

I reject that Jesus is more valuable than me. The only people who are more valuable than me are my friends or family. Whether or not your God exists, that still stands. My friends and family are more valuable to me, than your God can ever be.

If it didn't need to be done He wouldn't have done it! But we NEEDED Him, so He came!

Nope, it didn't need to be done. God, being all powerful, only needed to think of it, and it would of been done. Are you limiting your God's power?

David, it really does hurt to kick against the bricks..
God is immovable and immutable, and when you say the freedom He offers is nothing in comparison with your self-denfined freedom you thereby limit yourself to being in a box! God is outside of the box David!!!

Prove it.

If by box you mean existence, then your God does not exist.

For as long as you live He will continue to witness to you!
Your railings do nothing to disauade Him! HeH
The price for your sin has already been paid!

Good, he can watch me. I don't really care. And I am also well aware I will burn in hell. But he won't see me begging for forgiveness.

Have a good one.

David S.

 

[cornbread]

Well, I am a former Christian. Last year, in grade 10, I realized that Christianity was not for me. Why? Because it is both illogical and based entirely on faith. I do not like faith, because it is the absense of reason.

My question: How do you manage to believe in something that is completely unreasonable? God asks you to love him, yet he gives us no reason to love him. God tells us to not kill people, yet he single handily wiped out every living creature when he flooded the world. Jesus tells us to love our neighbour. What if our neighbour is a murderer/rapist?

God asks you to love him, yet he gives us no reason to love him.

there are endless reasons to love him, he sent his son to die for your sins, hes blessed you with what you have, even thought it seems like theres no reasons to love him, look at how much hes given you-a body-clothes-food-so many things! he is our provider and our deliverer!

God tells us to not kill people, yet he single handily wiped out every living creature when he flooded the world.

they were warned by moses but didnt beleive him. thats why its so important to beleive and trust him.

Jesus tells us to love our neighbour. What if our neighbour is a murderer/rapist?

love them anyway! murderers and rapists have sinned and so have you, jesus still loves them and tells us to, to regardless of their sins love your neighbour as yourself!

 

[Zeena]

I reject that Jesus is more valuable than me. The only people who are more valuable than me are my friends or family. Whether or not your God exists, that still stands. My friends and family are more valuable to me, than your God can ever be.

David S.

Although God is, by nature, more than we, He humbles Himself out of Love for us!

Isaiah 43:4
Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

Micah 6:7
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

Hebrews 10:7-10
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[DonkDat]

there are endless reasons to love him, he sent his son to die for your sins, hes blessed you with what you have, even thought it seems like theres no reasons to love him, look at how much hes given you-a body-clothes-food-so many things! he is our provider and our deliverer!

I believe I said that human sacrifice does not show love, but only shows what primitive men are capable of. I earn my food, and clothes.

they were warned by moses but didnt beleive him. thats why its so important to beleive and trust him.

Trust is earned. He has not earned mine.

love them anyway! murderers and rapists have sinned and so have you, jesus still loves them and tells us to, to regardless of their sins love your neighbour as yourself!

I can't love someone that hates life. I can't love someone that I disagree with morally. I have sinned under your God's standards. Not under mine. My moral code is something that I will never go against. I find it funny how Christians some how manage to break their own 10 commandments. They then proudly proclaim that it is impossible to be completely sinless. Perhaps your faith is not strong enough. Excellence is achievable if you are never satisfied.

Have a goodnight.

David S.

 

[DonkDat]

Although God is, by nature, more than we, He humbles Himself out of Love for us!

So just because he is greater than you, you must follow him? Him loving you makes you humbled?

I thought love would invigorate you, but whatever haha. To each his own.

Have a goodnight.

David S.

 

[Zeena]

So just because he is greater than you, you must follow him? Him loving you makes you humbled?

I learned to live life on my own for a VERY long time David! I learned how to cope, manipulate and castrate when I didn't get my way!

God, by the Life He Lived here on planet earth revealed to me another way.. The way of sacrifical Love!

I soon found out, however, that I was INCAPABLE of this kind of Love.. I turned to Him, and He met me!

He'll meet you too, if you seek Him!

 

[chava]

I'm glad you looked into facts instead of being a blind miscreant of the Christiand faith.