Question on CS Lewis

Goodbook · Apr 24, 2016

Its not the talking animals, there were talking animals in the bible.
After all the snake talked and balaams donkey talked.

Maybe its that, people are just placing too much emphaisis on Narnia which isnt even real when Jesus had already told lots of parables and we have the entire old testament full of stories to tell our children.

Also, i just get a icky feeling over people constantly equating Jesus with aslan. Because hes not. Similarities, sure, but they are not the same thing.

Goodbook · Apr 24, 2016

Fairy stories are not actually on the side of truth.
For example, snow white. Depicts an evil stepmother, but snow white herself must be rescued with a kiss from a huntsman. Basically her mother is a witch and jealous of her daughter.
Beauty and the beast...well thats codependency right there, to think someone who acts like abeast is really a prince inside to be magically transformed through our own efforts.
Cinderella...a tale of rags to riches and charming princes. But...is a life of a princess really all there is? More witchcraft. She only go to be a princess by dint of fairy godmothering witchcraft.

What is truth, well these fairy tales might have little bits of morals stuck in here and there, but its still not even close to the truth of what Jesus came to tell us and what he did for us.

Not saying dont tell them, but dont take fairy tales as gospel either and make more of them than necessary because they are myths. Fables. Not true. And narnia just comes under that category.

Quid est Veritas? · Apr 24, 2016

Goodbook said:
Fairy stories are not actually on the side of truth.
For example, snow white. Depicts an evil stepmother, but snow white herself must be rescued with a kiss from a huntsman. Basically her mother is a witch and jealous of her daughter.
Beauty and the beast...well thats codependency right there, to think someone who acts like abeast is really a prince inside to be magically transformed through our own efforts.
Cinderella...a tale of rags to riches and charming princes. But...is a life of a princess really all there is? More witchcraft. She only go to be a princess by dint of fairy godmothering witchcraft.

What is truth, well these fairy tales might have little bits of morals stuck in here and there, but its still not even close to the truth of what Jesus came to tell us and what he did for us.

Not saying dont tell them, but dont take fairy tales as gospel either and make more of them than necessary because they are myths. Fables. Not true. And narnia just comes under that category.

I don't think a single poster ever said to favour Narnia above the Gospels.

Goodbook · Apr 24, 2016

Also remember people read them When they are children, so of course they are going to have immature minds. In fact, if anyone is reading childrens stories still as an adult, I just would think they dont have anything better to do. Its like enlglish lit grads analysing alice in wonderland. It was horrible the first time you had these grown ups analysing a childrens story to death.

Goodbook · Apr 24, 2016

Well good, cos it looks dumb if you do and looks like you prefer narnia over the bible. I would question how seriously someones faith is if you had read all of narnia but didnt have the first clue of what went on in the book of revelation, and that Jesus is not actually a lion, and that cs lewis is not someone every single christian on earth knows about. Because hes not in the bible and didnt write it.

Or maybe its just the generation gap.

Goodbook · Apr 24, 2016

Just the other day I was talking to a 13 year old and she was showing me the Gods not dead movie trailer and saying she liked Newsboys song Gods not dead.

I said hold on. Its catchy, but My God is not like a lion on the inside.

This stopped her dead. What? Her mother asked me why.
I said. Hes not a lion. The devil is a lion seeking who, he may devour. my God is the worthy lamb. Oh no, piped up the girl. Hes the lion of Judah.
No hes the lamb,
No hes the lion. Thats what we were told!
I read out a passage from revelation, chapters 5 and 6.

Silence.

Goodbook · Apr 24, 2016

Anyway. I said, pray about it.
I do hold cs lewis responsible for the misconception that Jesus is a lion. I mean, why?
When in the bible clearly shows Jesus is the lamb that was slain.
The lion devours the lamb, but the lamb overcomes. By the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.

But oh no, people prefer the myth that its the lion worthy to open the scroll. Cos hes powerful and mighty right? Nah uh. Only the lamb. The innocent, sinless lamb is the only one worthy of that honor. Its the lambs book of life, not the lions.

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

Goodbook said:
Maybe he just didn't want to offend them. I find that wishy washy theology really, but then if you are employed by a secular university I suppose you wanna keep your job. The real test is would you give up a cushy professors job to serve the Lord totally or still hang on to it and justify it by saying you can reach more people with a watered down gospel?

Do you know how to quote the message you are replying to? Quoting makes your replies a LOT easier to understand. If you hit the reply button, it SHOULD include a quote of the whole message. OR, you can highlight a portion of the message, and you can then click reply on the drop down menu.

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

Goodbook said:
Just the other day I was talking to a 13 year old and she was showing me the Gods not dead movie trailer and saying she liked Newsboys song Gods not dead.

I said hold on. Its catchy, but My God is not like a lion on the inside.

This stopped her dead. What? Her mother asked me why.
I said. Hes not a lion. The devil is a lion seeking who, he may devour. my God is the worthy lamb. Oh no, piped up the girl. Hes the lion of Judah.
No hes the lamb,
No hes the lion. Thats what we were told!
I read out a passage from revelation, chapters 5 and 6.

Silence.

Oh my gosh. He is also the Lion of Judah. You CAN use more than one metaphor. The lamb metaphor refers to his purity as a sacrifice. The lion metaphor refers to his kingly authority to judge.

Rev 5:5
Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

dms1972 said:
Thats true and Lewis had a 'baptised imagination'. Leanne Payne in her books speaks of it in terms of a Holy Imagination, and a Holy Intellect both of which she said were well developed in CS Lewis.

worth being said again.

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

Goodbook said:
I'm just gonna read this biography by Alistair McGrath and make up my own mind.

I don't think that reading about CS Lewis will make any difference at all. The problem here is not a lack of left brain understanding, but that your right brain is under active. You need to develop your own creative imagination. Go play with your kids. Pretend you are a horse. What does it feel like to be a horse galloping across the Steppes with the wind whipping your mane? Something brings you to a stop. What is it? You whinny, and do horsey lips. How does it feel? Your kids will love you, and you will develop yourself at the same time.

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

Goodbook said:
Another thing that strikes me about C.S. Lewis is this verse in Timothy

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

Words usually have more than one definition. Here are the definitions for myth:

myth
miTH/
noun
1.
a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
synonyms: folk tale, folk story, legend, tale, story, fable, saga, mythos, lore,folklore, mythology
"ancient Greek myths"

2.a widely held but false belief or idea."he wants to dispel the myth that sea kayaking is too risky or too strenuous"

The verse in Timothy uses the second definition. The Narnian Chronicals are the first definition.

I just notice whenever C.S. Lewis comes up in a christian or religious conversation, that person will put more emphasis on what Lewis says than what scripture actually says. They will quote him over and above scripture as well. I just find that weird, because not all Christians read fantasy stories and myths like narnia and lord of the rings.

"Go not to the elves for advice for they will say both yes and no."

I've never met a Christian who puts Narnia on a higher level of authority than Scripture. However...
1. Narnia may be more sentimental to them.
2. A quote from Narnia may say what they want to say better.

As a devout Christian and Catholic, I hold the Scriptures to be a primary authority. However, the stories in the Lord of the Rings SHOW Scriptures teachings, like parables. So for me, LOTR quotes sort of drive scripture home the same way that the Prophets drive home the Torah.

What I *suspect* is that you just get annoyed that people quote from Narnia and the LOTR and react by attributing bad motivation to us.

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

dms1972 said:
If you want to know about Lewis as a person you might like to read Out of My Bone by Joy Davidman.

Or better yet, his own autobiography, Surprised by Joy

dms1972 · Apr 24, 2016

Surprised by Joy provides a very good insight into a complex man, but some readers may find they lack sympathy with his experiences and search for Joy in the sense he understood that which was something different from either happiness, or emotional thrills. And the reader would need to recognise that Lewis' journey to Christ - intellectually and imaginatively is uniquely his own (anyone born at latter end of the twentieth century will find it obscure in places - The Pilgrims Regress even more so if approached thinking it is a contemporary version of Pilgrims Progress).

If one has a tendency to dogmatise a particular type of conversion experience then Lewis's own may seem 'weird' to them. If on the other hand one is able to read an intricate account of someones inner journey, sympathetically understanding it may have major differences from ones own, and from others one has heard of, then they may be able to appreciate it.

But honestly i think there are people for whom Lewis will never appeal very much. And there are other books that are better for them - for instance Pilgrims Progress is still very good (and there is other fictional works by Bunyan) - also Thomas Brook's Precious Remedies against Satan's Devices may be much better for some than The Screwtape Letters.

dms1972 · Apr 24, 2016

The verse in Timothy uses the second definition. The Narnian Chronicles are the first definition.

Does what you say here make sense to you?

Narnia is not either of those - its a fairy-tale world reached through a wardrobe!

Myths in the first sense were of this world but in an earlier age - it was the strivings of some men to make sense of things before Christ, and apart from the Torah. I've read the verse in [Paul's letter to] Timothy refers to early non-canonical Jewish myths - Pseudepigrapha (falsely attributed writings) .

topcare · Apr 24, 2016

Open Heart said:
You need to develop your own creative imagination.

It is apparent that some Christians are incapable of such a thing, such is the OP

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

topcare said:
It is apparent that some Christians are incapable of such a thing, such is the OP

Sigh* I suppose it is possible. It would be like being color blind.

Meowzltov · Apr 24, 2016

dms1972 said:
Does what you say here make sense to you?

Narnia is not either of those - its a fairy-tale world reached through a wardrobe!

Myths in the first sense were of this world but in an earlier age - it was the strivings of some men to make sense of things before Christ, and apart from the Torah. I've read the verse in Timothy refers to early non-canonical Jewish myths - Pseudepigrapha (falsely attributed writings) .

I disagree that Timothy refers to pseudepigrapical writings. I think it means "myths" as in "that is a myth/lie."

Modern forms of mythology, such as Science Fiction, have indeed stretched the limits of mythology with ideas of different dimensions, other planets, other species, future times, etc. But it's just a more creative form of the same old myths. Same stories; different clothing.

Live long and prosper.

Goodbook · Apr 25, 2016

Timohthy was referring to myths of course they would be the myths jewish people may have read but I dont think Paul was being inclusive of that. He just meant myths in general.

Christian mythology is an oxymoron. Its not that I dont grasp it, but its unnecessary. Essentially making sense of God through myths was what cs lewis seems to be trying to do.

Goodbook · Apr 25, 2016

He seems like a very complex man.
I did learn philosophy at university and cs lewis seems like the type who was so into reasoning and logic that he had to literally dig himself out of it. He seemed to swing between extremes and thus created elaborate metaphors. For when confronted with God, sometimes all mans wisdom and reasoning is chaff to the wind.

I know of an atheist who did the exact same thing. He was into fairy tales like tolkien and treated them as his bible.

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