Question on CS Lewis

[Goodbook]

I was just saying some well known professed christians as an example who have published a lot of books. Obviously not in the same 'literary' type of realm cs. Lewis was in.

 

[PloverWing]

If a book is questionable I dont spend too much time dwelling on it. But if its really popular and people are raving about it but Im not so hot on it, sometimes I do wonder whats behind it esp if I find some of it unbiblical.

I agree that there are odd fads that come and go, Christian books that suddenly become popular and then fade away. I also agree that it's good to evaluate books carefully and not go along with every fad that comes along. In fact, I think it's good to evaluate everything you read carefully, whether it's a fad or not.

In the case of Lewis, when I have praised him in the past, it's because his books have helped to shape my Christian life. I read the Narnia chronicles first as an elementary-school child, and I re-read them every 10 years or so. I've read most of Lewis' other books since then, but the Narnia chronicles continue to be my favorites. As a child, I was able to understand the basic stories of the redemption of Edmund and Eustace; as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate more of the stories as I see bits of my Christian life in them. The Silver Chair, especially, is a good picture of the Christian life after you've screwed up and you're confused about what to do and you still have to live anyway. I think I understand more about the Christian life from reading Lewis than from many years of sermons.

But we all have our own preferences. If you don't like Lewis, read something else instead.

 

[Meowzltov]

I'm not sure I understand why CS Lewis wrote the things he did, it seemed like he was christian but then he wrote about lions and witches and wardrobes.

i remmeber seeing this movie as a child and I did not think it was actually christian. It was more fairy tale. Actually it scared me a bit when I was young because it suggested that wardrobes could be portals to this other world.

Later when I became a christian CS Lewis writings didnt make much senese either. It seemed he was advocating anglicanism as a religion rather than actually being born again.

I tried to read 'mere christianity' but nothing registered, just seemed like an out of date apologetic for religion. Screwtape letters seemed to glorify demons. I did not enjoy reading the screwtape letters, I thought, very clever, but no gospel in it.

What do other people think? Anybody actually know him personally? Why was he writing about witches etc when we are meant to avoid all appearance of evil? I would not say chronicles of narnia are christian. Its fantasy, with twisted elements of christianity in it.

There is nothing unChristian about fantasy. I think you suffer from an extreme lack of imagination. You need a good dose of fairy tales! Try Hans Christian Anderson's Christian fairy tales. Move to something more ARCHETYPAL like Grimm's. When you REALLY are ready for it, read the masterpiece of Christian myth, the Lord of the Rings.

 

[Meowzltov]

No, jesus isnt the lion of Judah.
He is the lamb, thats why people constantly get it wrong due to CS lewis influence.

Jesus is MANY metaphors, including the Lion of Judah.

 

[Meowzltov]

I was reading a site where someone was badly affected by the witchcraft shown in lion, witch and the wardrobe. I think christians should stay away from occult writing like that.

There are people who get all freaked out by the Bible. You always have a small minority of people who for whatever strange reasons have an atypical response. It means nothing. There is nothing occultic about the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.

 

[Meowzltov]

Here is a link to JRR Tolkiens "On Fairy Stories." For those of you who don't know, Tolkien was the Chrisitan who led CS Lewis to Christ.
http://www.rivendellcommunity.org/Formation/Tolkien_On_Fairy_Stories.pdf

 

[Goodbook]

I didnt say there was anything unchristian about fantasy, but the Bible does say we are to cast vain imaginations down and bring every thought captive to Christ.

When non christians read say narnia, they not all going to see the allusions to christian things.
If you already brought up christian, you might. But if you not, it would go over your head.

Same with a book like Animal Farm. Which was also labelled a fairy story, and shelved in the childrens section when it came out back in 1945 i think it was. george Orwell wrote it as an allegory on communism. But a child reading that wouldnt get the link, esp one reading today.

 

[Goodbook]

I think cs lewis would shape your life if you brought up anglican. For other christians they wouldnt really understand what hes on about. That doesnt mean they are less intellectual or deep thinking than other people though.

 

[Goodbook]

I think it is easy to read into things that the author didnt intend, but also, authors are fallible themselves and dont always get things right. Just because someone publishes a book and is given the name of 'author' it doesnt automatically make them an authority of theology for example.

If its IN the bible and given as a revelation. Well thats another matter.

But then again, we are given FOUR different gospel accounts in the bible. they are all gospel, but with different viewpoints. And of course some people have their favourites, i.e I like Luke, but many people prefer Johns gospel above all else.

 

[Meowzltov]

I didnt say there was anything unchristian about fantasy, but the Bible does say we are to cast vain imaginations down and bring every thought captive to Christ.

The Bible doesn't say that any imaginations are vain. It says that some people are vain in their imaginations. BIG difference.

Fantasy doesn't have to be allegory to be of God. All it has to do is teach good values. Even if a person reads the Narnia Chronicles and doesn't understand that Aslan is Jesus, they are still Godly books.

 

[Meowzltov]

Did you read ON FAIRY STORIES? I gave you the link. I really think it would broaden your views regarding fantasy.

 

[PloverWing]

I think cs lewis would shape your life if you brought up anglican. For other christians they wouldnt really understand what hes on about. That doesnt mean they are less intellectual or deep thinking than other people though.

I was actually brought up Baptist; I became Anglican later, as an adult. To their credit, the Baptists do an excellent job of clearly presenting "the plan of salvation"; maybe that's why I was able to connect it to Edmund's story even when I was young.

I'll never know to what extent my youthful encounters with Lewis influenced my choice to become Anglican in adulthood. (One is never told what would have happened, says Aslan.)

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

I think cs lewis would shape your life if you brought up anglican. For other christians they wouldnt really understand what hes on about. That doesnt mean they are less intellectual or deep thinking than other people though.

I disagree. He doesn't really write out of an Anglican perspective in most of his works and even then tends to present nuanced and fairly ecumenical works.

 

[dms1972]

I didnt say there was anything unchristian about fantasy, but the Bible does say we are to cast vain imaginations down and bring every thought captive to Christ.

When non christians read say narnia, they not all going to see the allusions to christian things.
If you already brought up christian, you might. But if you not, it would go over your head.

Same with a book like Animal Farm. Which was also labelled a fairy story, and shelved in the childrens section when it came out back in 1945 i think it was. george Orwell wrote it as an allegory on communism. But a child reading that wouldnt get the link, esp one reading today.

Do you not think however they might be more likely to recognise communism later on having read Animal Farm or to identify aspects of it with characters in the book?

The Narnia books are not evangelistic. But it has been suggested that they are pre-apologetics

Here's quote from the Pilgrims Guide: CS Lewis and the Art of Witness

"What is Lewis doing in these stories? Let me suggest a word: pre-apologetics. As we speak of creating a disposition to hear the gospel as 'pre-evangelism' we can speak of creating a predisposition to believe the truth of the Christian vision and to doubt the alternatives as 'pre-apologetics'. Because it attempts to change the readers' vision or imagination, to give them new assumptions about what is, or can be, true, pre-apologetics is done primarily through story, through stories that undermine the secular story and make believable the Christian story...One goal of the Chronicles of Narnia is to break the enchantment of worldliness, including the deep naturalistic prejudice against the supernatural. Narnia is Lewis's pre-apologetics; it is his attempt to predispose the reader to hear the truth without being biased against it by secular prejudices when he is called through the explicit gospel message." Steven M. Smith

I think this is a brilliant description of what Lewis was doing.

 

[dms1972]

Here is a link to JRR Tolkiens "On Fairy Stories." For those of you who don't know, Tolkien was the Chrisitan who led CS Lewis to Christ.
http://www.rivendellcommunity.org/Formation/Tolkien_On_Fairy_Stories.pdf

This essay is brilliant, I bought Tree and Leaf a while ago, and have just been reading On Fairy Stories in it to find out a bit more about the genre, as I have been trying to write an article on Lewis and the Narnia books.

 

[dms1972]

The alleged allegory Christians insist on breaks down when Aslan (the supposed Christ figure) accepts a person who worshiped Nash (the supposed Satan figure). Aslan imputes the person's lifelong worship of Nash to himself (universalism). Aslan also endorses and encourages Lucy to cast spells, and refers to the "magic" which he and all of Narnia is supposedly subject to. Aslan doesn't die for everyone--he only dies for Edmund--implying that the rest don't need forgiveness/a sacrifice.

But it isn't an allegory.

The episode with Emeth in the last battle has perplexed a few people (and it perplexed me for a bit too till I remembered its a story not a systematic theology) So perhaps because of trying to use Narnia as a theological source to see if it matches up with the Bible people get into difficulties. But failing to read it as a story seems to be were most go wrong.


Emeth (whose name means truth) in The Last Battle is converted on the Purlieus, as it were of the New Narnia, because he was in the world of the story a truth seeker, and sought truth even when it meant he might lose his life.

When he meets Aslan he falls down and worships Him, confessing he had all his days worshipped Tash. Aslan forgives him and tells him nothing vile can be done in service to him, and nothing that is not vile can be done in service to Tash, and that unless his desire had been for Aslan, he would not have sought so long and so truly, for all find what they truly seek. Clearly Emeth is representative of noble truth seekers.


Emeth has refused to worship the false and syncretic Tashlan, that Shift the Ape has set up to deceive the Narnians. Suspecting it to be a lie, Though not a Narnian he lived up to the only truth he knew.

On the other hand Rishda Tarkann who called on Tash, because he wants to make use of Tash for his own selfish ends, doesn't get into the New Narnia, and neither do the Dwarves who were only out for themselves. If I recall correctly Rishda doesn't expect to meet Tash, and when he does Tash picks him up with its beak, before Peter banishes Tash, saying something like "Begone Monster, and take thy lawful prey with you".

Emeth was a believer who was prepared to face Tash even if Tash should slay him, Rishda was an unbeliever.

There is a clear separation at the end of the Last Battle based on the creatures response to Aslan as they walk up to him, either love or hate. Not everyone enters the New Narnia. Lewis therefore was inclusivist in his views, but not universalist.

 

[Goodbook]

The bible says to cast down vain imaginations and make every thought captive to christ. Dont twist the bibles words.

Its really weird how some people think that just because someone makes something up, its better than the truth.

 

[Goodbook]

Regarding animal farm? Not really. We studied it in fifth form english and none of us were brought up under communism so it went completely over our heads. i only found out it was all about that because I read some history, but that history did not affect my life.

Children reading narnia today would not get any of the so called christian symbolism to them its just compleltey fairy tale. Its like alice in wonderland, there is really no subtext to it. People try and make it out like its got some freudian dream symbolism and all about sex, but its just a childrens tale.

I dont think cs lewis was trying to evangelise or make even apologetics. He just used myth and his ideas of good and evil and also took elements of bible situations, as well as occult ideas and made up his own story. I dont think that his narnia tales are to be taken as gospel and wouldnt really recommend them as anything christian. A book by a christian author maybe but not an especially christian book.

Im not sure if george orwell was christian. The bronte sisters were probably christian esp charlotte but Jane eyre wasnt particularly a christian story. Even though it had elements of christian love in it, and things like repentence and meekness, that you could take from it.

 

[Goodbook]

I do think people latch on to cs lewis as a christian that wrote popular fantasy but not because his fantasy was christian. the two are so at odds with each other, its like how christian fiction is an oxymoron.

Apparently paul pullman the author who wrote His dark materials which is VERY dark, was inspired to write his horror fest based on narnia chronicles with a twist. How a supposedly christian fantasy series can inspire something so opposite and twisted is disturbing.

 

[dms1972]

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