RC,
This is nit picking......... as people gain understanding they see what God has decided to show us, but everyone is at different levels trying to grasp the truth that we have been given.......
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Question about the Traditional/Progressive Split
- Thread starter tinkerbell
- Start date
RC,
This is nit picking......... as people gain understanding they see what God has decided to show us, but everyone is at different levels trying to grasp the truth that we have been given.......
T
TrustAndObey
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This was the first post I saw this morning when I logged in and checked my e-mails.
I certainly wasn't expecting to spend my morning trying to defend myself or my interpretation of scripture, but RC, I do appreciate this because it made me pool together a lot of my thoughts. It's something I've wanted to do for a long time anyway, but we couldn't discuss this on CF before, and I just never really saw it as something that would separate me from the Adventist church/message.
Since you obviously do feel that way, I owe you an explanation.
What I've written isn't exhaustive by any means, and I wrote what came to my mind at that moment. I prayed while I was writing, so God help me if I lead anyone away from the truth.
My "view" to follow:
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TrustAndObey
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I have never really written down my view of the Trinity in one neat little document, so now that I’m being accused of not adhering to the fundamental beliefs of my church, I guess it’s time that I do.
And hey, for the record, I’ll send this in an e-mail to my pastor and let him tell me if I should be kicked out of my church after he reads it. Ironically I already did discuss this with him, before my baptism, and he agreed that I do adhere to the teachings of the Adventist church....but I’ll do it to appease you RC, since you are my accuser.
Having not ever pulled all my notes together, I have a feeling I might get off-track a little while I talk about my view, so I’ll apologize in advance. I’m also getting ready for the cable guy to come tomorrow, so I can’t just sit here and give this my full attention right now.
I took notes when I read the bible the first time, and I would come to a certain conclusion with my limited human knowledge, and through prayer I would come to a different conclusion later. I’m not saying that what I say here today isn’t subject to change. I’m still learning just like everybody else is, and I pray for wisdom and understanding from my Teacher all the time.
God isn’t done with me yet. Not by a long shot.
The big difference between what I believe and what others seem to believe is I believe Jesus really did DIE for my sins, for your sins, and for the sins of the world. I believe a sinless Man paid a ransom for my very soul, and He died in order to do that.
I believe He was absolutely DEAD for three days and that was the only way He would’ve been able to “conquer death” as scripture states He did.
Did God the Father die for three days? No, He did not. Did the Holy Spirit die for three days? No, He did not.
The resurrection is attributed to every Person (I use the term “Person” for lack of a better word) in the Trinity, but Acts 2:24 says “Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that He should be holden of it.”
Jesus was dead, so *I* believe that verse is referring to God the Father...through His Holy Spirit. Could Jesus have raised Himself from the grave? I believe that’s possible too, because Jesus never sinned. Lack of sin equals righteousness, but does it equal Divinity?
I guess that question is directly related to the resurrection of the last day (so I’ll try to remember to touch upon that later).
God the Father cannot die. He alone has immortality (1 Tim 6:16)...and that would include His Spirit. The HOLY Spirit.
I too, believe that Jesus is God. I believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I believe every human being on this planet was made in THEIR image and I do believe that Jesus created the world and was with God the Father from the very beginning (that’s where Maco and I seem to differ).
And hey, for the record, I’ll send this in an e-mail to my pastor and let him tell me if I should be kicked out of my church after he reads it. Ironically I already did discuss this with him, before my baptism, and he agreed that I do adhere to the teachings of the Adventist church....but I’ll do it to appease you RC, since you are my accuser.
Having not ever pulled all my notes together, I have a feeling I might get off-track a little while I talk about my view, so I’ll apologize in advance. I’m also getting ready for the cable guy to come tomorrow, so I can’t just sit here and give this my full attention right now.
I took notes when I read the bible the first time, and I would come to a certain conclusion with my limited human knowledge, and through prayer I would come to a different conclusion later. I’m not saying that what I say here today isn’t subject to change. I’m still learning just like everybody else is, and I pray for wisdom and understanding from my Teacher all the time.
God isn’t done with me yet. Not by a long shot.
The big difference between what I believe and what others seem to believe is I believe Jesus really did DIE for my sins, for your sins, and for the sins of the world. I believe a sinless Man paid a ransom for my very soul, and He died in order to do that.
I believe He was absolutely DEAD for three days and that was the only way He would’ve been able to “conquer death” as scripture states He did.
Did God the Father die for three days? No, He did not. Did the Holy Spirit die for three days? No, He did not.
The resurrection is attributed to every Person (I use the term “Person” for lack of a better word) in the Trinity, but Acts 2:24 says “Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that He should be holden of it.”
Jesus was dead, so *I* believe that verse is referring to God the Father...through His Holy Spirit. Could Jesus have raised Himself from the grave? I believe that’s possible too, because Jesus never sinned. Lack of sin equals righteousness, but does it equal Divinity?
I guess that question is directly related to the resurrection of the last day (so I’ll try to remember to touch upon that later).
God the Father cannot die. He alone has immortality (1 Tim 6:16)...and that would include His Spirit. The HOLY Spirit.
I too, believe that Jesus is God. I believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I believe every human being on this planet was made in THEIR image and I do believe that Jesus created the world and was with God the Father from the very beginning (that’s where Maco and I seem to differ).
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TrustAndObey
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Why didn’t Jesus just “appear” on this earth and meet all the criteria the Jews thought they were looking for? Why was He born of a woman at all?
Jesus GAVE UP immortality to come to this earth. That’s obvious to me, or He couldn’t have died. By not having immortality He was also subjecting Himself to corruption, which is also obvious to me when I read scripture.
I think it’s totally discounting His sacrifice to say He “didn’t really die” or that He “couldn’t die”. To say that is to agree with satan’s very first lie in scripture.
*I* believe that Jesus felt every bit of the pain we would’ve felt if a crown of thorns had been smashed into our scalps, and if we had been beaten. I also believe He felt ALL the shame we would’ve felt if we were being mocked, but instead of seeking vengeance like we would, Christ knew God the Father had claimed vengeance as His Own, and Christ did things like heal the servant’s ear instead.
And I believe He really did DIE.
Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Son of God, but it also tells us that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, so there is absolutely no denying that God’s Spirit is an extension of Himself, just like ours is, only His Spirit is Holy. It’s every bit a part of Him as our spirits are a part of us. We are made in that image.
In Revelation we’re told “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Not just faith IN Jesus, but the faith OF Jesus.
If Jesus was God the Father, what did He have faith IN? Who? Or What? How do we KEEP the faith of Jesus? It’s obviously a very important thing to know, right?
Why did Jesus refer to God the Father as “My God and your God”?
He had faith in the resurrection, of being raised immortal and never having to die again. He also had faith in the Father, a merciful God....His God and our God. Jesus knew that the resurrection was assured and we should absolutely have faith in the same things He did.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Again, it doesn’t say faith IN Jesus Christ; it refers to the faith OF Jesus Christ.
If our faith in God the Father were like Jesus’ was while on this earth, I have absolutely no doubt that we could heal, raise the dead, and feed starving villages with the touch of a hand. I do not, however, believe that we could raise ourselves from the dead...that requires a Divinity that we just cannot claim until we are raised on the last day.
When I hear someone say that Jesus was totally incapable of sinning or that He was absolutely Divine while living on this earth, I always think about the temptation in the wilderness.
Mark 1:13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
Temptation....was satan’s attempt to test Jesus an absolute futile attempt that he (satan) knew he couldn’t win, or was it really possible that Jesus COULD have sinned but proved we do not HAVE to?
I also think about Him crying when He knew Lazarus was dead. He FELT the suffering of Lazarus’ family. Not just THEIR suffering, but His own. Even though Christ knew that He was going to resurrect Lazarus very shortly, He felt the pain that you and I feel when we lose someone to death. He could’ve waited until the last day to resurrect Lazarus, but He didn’t.
For the wages of sin is death. It’s our enemy. Sin and death are our ENEMY.
Christ KNEW the beauty of heaven, but He raised Lazarus back onto this earth anyway. Why? Because through absolute faith in God the Father, He COULD.
Jesus GAVE UP immortality to come to this earth. That’s obvious to me, or He couldn’t have died. By not having immortality He was also subjecting Himself to corruption, which is also obvious to me when I read scripture.
I think it’s totally discounting His sacrifice to say He “didn’t really die” or that He “couldn’t die”. To say that is to agree with satan’s very first lie in scripture.
*I* believe that Jesus felt every bit of the pain we would’ve felt if a crown of thorns had been smashed into our scalps, and if we had been beaten. I also believe He felt ALL the shame we would’ve felt if we were being mocked, but instead of seeking vengeance like we would, Christ knew God the Father had claimed vengeance as His Own, and Christ did things like heal the servant’s ear instead.
And I believe He really did DIE.
Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Son of God, but it also tells us that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, so there is absolutely no denying that God’s Spirit is an extension of Himself, just like ours is, only His Spirit is Holy. It’s every bit a part of Him as our spirits are a part of us. We are made in that image.
In Revelation we’re told “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Not just faith IN Jesus, but the faith OF Jesus.
If Jesus was God the Father, what did He have faith IN? Who? Or What? How do we KEEP the faith of Jesus? It’s obviously a very important thing to know, right?
Why did Jesus refer to God the Father as “My God and your God”?
He had faith in the resurrection, of being raised immortal and never having to die again. He also had faith in the Father, a merciful God....His God and our God. Jesus knew that the resurrection was assured and we should absolutely have faith in the same things He did.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Again, it doesn’t say faith IN Jesus Christ; it refers to the faith OF Jesus Christ.
If our faith in God the Father were like Jesus’ was while on this earth, I have absolutely no doubt that we could heal, raise the dead, and feed starving villages with the touch of a hand. I do not, however, believe that we could raise ourselves from the dead...that requires a Divinity that we just cannot claim until we are raised on the last day.
When I hear someone say that Jesus was totally incapable of sinning or that He was absolutely Divine while living on this earth, I always think about the temptation in the wilderness.
Mark 1:13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
Temptation....was satan’s attempt to test Jesus an absolute futile attempt that he (satan) knew he couldn’t win, or was it really possible that Jesus COULD have sinned but proved we do not HAVE to?
I also think about Him crying when He knew Lazarus was dead. He FELT the suffering of Lazarus’ family. Not just THEIR suffering, but His own. Even though Christ knew that He was going to resurrect Lazarus very shortly, He felt the pain that you and I feel when we lose someone to death. He could’ve waited until the last day to resurrect Lazarus, but He didn’t.
For the wages of sin is death. It’s our enemy. Sin and death are our ENEMY.
Christ KNEW the beauty of heaven, but He raised Lazarus back onto this earth anyway. Why? Because through absolute faith in God the Father, He COULD.
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TrustAndObey
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There’s a story in scripture about a young woman that dies, and Jesus brought her back to life. Luke 8:55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and He commanded to give her meat.
HER spirit came again. Was she immortal after that? Scripture is silent about it, but I feel that she was not made immortal that day. She received her own spirit back into her own body (which wasn’t glorified). I believe she went on to die again, just like the many saints that Jesus resurrected after He was resurrected.
I believe the resurrection at the last day is different because we will receive HIS spirit; us receiving the Holy Spirit and becoming immortal ourselves. If our spirits are to become holy, sin will never rise again.
Can we receive the Holy Spirit now, before the resurrection of the last day, absolutely. We can also ignore the Holy Spirit as well, and that’s really not keeping the faith OF Jesus Christ.
Why is Jesus our redemption (Romans 3:24)? Jesus came to this earth and proved that you really can live a life free of sin. We do NOT have to sin.
He never sinned once. Why would His NOT sinning be such a big deal if He had an advantage over any one of us or if He had been incapable of sinning from the very beginning of His human experience here?
The wages for sin is death. That is a promise. He didn’t sin, but He died anyway, RC. THAT is the sacrifice scripture tells us about, and THAT is the sacrifice that gave us the promise of eternal life by merely accepting that wonderful gift.
It is my firm belief that Jesus sustained a life on this earth through total faith in God the Father. I don’t think Him not sinning had a THING to do with not being able to sin, but because He knew He couldn’t be shaken if God and His angels were with Him those forty days. He had FAITH, and He quoted God’s word in response to every one of satan’s accusations.
God’s Holy Spirit led Jesus TO the wilderness and God the Father’s Spirit led Him THROUGH the wilderness. If we had that kind of faith, to follow where we’re led no matter how scary it is, there is absolutely no evil thing that could penetrate our lives either.
So when I read scripture and I read about the faith OF Jesus Christ, I feel that I need to have faith that God will give me the power to heal all wounds, I should have faith that we will FINALLY get to see the devil get his due and all wrongs will be avenged by GOD, not myself. I should have faith in the resurrection, and the gift of salvation, and the reward of heaven (among other things)..
Jesus told us what to have faith in. He told us several times. He also told us that God the Father would never keep those things from us if we prayed for them in His name. The faith that can move mountains.
Did the disciples have faith that Jesus would raise Himself out of the grave or did they have faith that His God would raise Him up? I don’t know, but I do know Jesus told one person this:
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
HER spirit came again. Was she immortal after that? Scripture is silent about it, but I feel that she was not made immortal that day. She received her own spirit back into her own body (which wasn’t glorified). I believe she went on to die again, just like the many saints that Jesus resurrected after He was resurrected.
I believe the resurrection at the last day is different because we will receive HIS spirit; us receiving the Holy Spirit and becoming immortal ourselves. If our spirits are to become holy, sin will never rise again.
Can we receive the Holy Spirit now, before the resurrection of the last day, absolutely. We can also ignore the Holy Spirit as well, and that’s really not keeping the faith OF Jesus Christ.
Why is Jesus our redemption (Romans 3:24)? Jesus came to this earth and proved that you really can live a life free of sin. We do NOT have to sin.
He never sinned once. Why would His NOT sinning be such a big deal if He had an advantage over any one of us or if He had been incapable of sinning from the very beginning of His human experience here?
The wages for sin is death. That is a promise. He didn’t sin, but He died anyway, RC. THAT is the sacrifice scripture tells us about, and THAT is the sacrifice that gave us the promise of eternal life by merely accepting that wonderful gift.
It is my firm belief that Jesus sustained a life on this earth through total faith in God the Father. I don’t think Him not sinning had a THING to do with not being able to sin, but because He knew He couldn’t be shaken if God and His angels were with Him those forty days. He had FAITH, and He quoted God’s word in response to every one of satan’s accusations.
God’s Holy Spirit led Jesus TO the wilderness and God the Father’s Spirit led Him THROUGH the wilderness. If we had that kind of faith, to follow where we’re led no matter how scary it is, there is absolutely no evil thing that could penetrate our lives either.
So when I read scripture and I read about the faith OF Jesus Christ, I feel that I need to have faith that God will give me the power to heal all wounds, I should have faith that we will FINALLY get to see the devil get his due and all wrongs will be avenged by GOD, not myself. I should have faith in the resurrection, and the gift of salvation, and the reward of heaven (among other things)..
Jesus told us what to have faith in. He told us several times. He also told us that God the Father would never keep those things from us if we prayed for them in His name. The faith that can move mountains.
Did the disciples have faith that Jesus would raise Himself out of the grave or did they have faith that His God would raise Him up? I don’t know, but I do know Jesus told one person this:
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
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sentipente
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Here we see the problem that comes with using historical accounts to create theological doctrine.
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TrustAndObey
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Jesus called THAT God MY God and your God. He was NOT speaking of Himself and even states that as plain as day.
I believe they are One. Just like a husband and wife are one. The Trinity is a unity of three co-eternal Persons.
Isnt that what our fundamental belief says TOO?
Does our fundamental belief not list the three co-eternal Persons separately and list their different ROLES? Yes, it does.
Just like my husband and I, those co-eternal Persons have separate roles but They also have the same purpose. They are One in the exact same sense that my husband and I are.
God the Father is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. JESUS is the Lord of the living AND the dead.
God the Father handed judgment over to the Son after the Son experienced life on THIS earth.
Different roles. Same purpose.
Scripture also talks about one baptism....then scripture goes on to talk about baptism by immersion in water, and baptism of the Holy Spirit. Which one do you think the thief on the cross received?
I recognize the symbology of one in scripture, and I feel it applies every bit as much to the Trinity as it does to my husband and I or to baptism. If a person wasnt able to be baptized by immersion, I know they were still able to be baptized by the Holy Spirit...and the purpose (meaning) is the same.
You emphasized what I said about Jesus not always being co-eternal, and I think I explained what I meant by that earlier. I believe He gave up immortality to live on this earth surrounded by sin to set an example and to save us from that sin.
Ive been distracted a lot while typing this up so I hope I made myself somewhat clear. I believe that Jesus was resurrected and received a glorified body and immortality. Yes, our Savior is now and forever eternal, and every bit as equal to God the Father.
I also think if we hold onto sins that we love on this earth and do not repent of them, heaven would be a miserable place for us.
And that, in a nutshell, is my view.
~Lainie (sinner)
I believe they are One. Just like a husband and wife are one. The Trinity is a unity of three co-eternal Persons.
Isnt that what our fundamental belief says TOO?
Does our fundamental belief not list the three co-eternal Persons separately and list their different ROLES? Yes, it does.
Just like my husband and I, those co-eternal Persons have separate roles but They also have the same purpose. They are One in the exact same sense that my husband and I are.
God the Father is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. JESUS is the Lord of the living AND the dead.
God the Father handed judgment over to the Son after the Son experienced life on THIS earth.
Different roles. Same purpose.
Scripture also talks about one baptism....then scripture goes on to talk about baptism by immersion in water, and baptism of the Holy Spirit. Which one do you think the thief on the cross received?
I recognize the symbology of one in scripture, and I feel it applies every bit as much to the Trinity as it does to my husband and I or to baptism. If a person wasnt able to be baptized by immersion, I know they were still able to be baptized by the Holy Spirit...and the purpose (meaning) is the same.
You emphasized what I said about Jesus not always being co-eternal, and I think I explained what I meant by that earlier. I believe He gave up immortality to live on this earth surrounded by sin to set an example and to save us from that sin.
Ive been distracted a lot while typing this up so I hope I made myself somewhat clear. I believe that Jesus was resurrected and received a glorified body and immortality. Yes, our Savior is now and forever eternal, and every bit as equal to God the Father.
I also think if we hold onto sins that we love on this earth and do not repent of them, heaven would be a miserable place for us.
And that, in a nutshell, is my view.
~Lainie (sinner)
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TrustAndObey
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Have you ever noticed that even though people repeatedly say "Jesus is God", they feel He had a different set of commandments than the ones His Father gave us?
They have to believe the Father and Son are one and the exact same in order to come to that conclusion...that one set would supercede the other.
Jesus obeyed the Father's commandments and told us to as well.
They have to believe the Father and Son are one and the exact same in order to come to that conclusion...that one set would supercede the other.
Jesus obeyed the Father's commandments and told us to as well.
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sentipente
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The language is clear but I feel I am missing something from that post. I am lost. What does it mean for the Father and Son to be one and the exact same? What about these different set of commandments? If Jesus is the Creator "Thou shalt not steal" could not be applicable to Him.
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RC_NewProtestants
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Trust wrote:
First this should be moved and started as a new thread. Second I am not your accuser I am merely telling you that your beliefs are not consistent with the trinitarian concept set forth in the 28 Adventist beliefs. No one is going to kick you out of the SDA church for you being semi-arian, just as no one is kicking me out of the church for being a modalist.
First this should be moved and started as a new thread. Second I am not your accuser I am merely telling you that your beliefs are not consistent with the trinitarian concept set forth in the 28 Adventist beliefs. No one is going to kick you out of the SDA church for you being semi-arian, just as no one is kicking me out of the church for being a modalist.
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TrustAndObey
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I wanted to start a new thread, but this is the thread where you accused me of being in serious denial, so here is where I thought I should answer. Especially considering how many new threads get started every day, and the fact that you'd get an e-mail if you're subscribed to this thread.
Wouldn't want you to miss another opportunity to tell me I'm ignorant.
From what Maco has quoted of EGW, I guess she was semi-arian too?
I really don't know if I jive with what EGW taught on this subject, but from what little I've read of her writings, she does refer to God the Father and God the Son. I have never seen her say Jesus IS God the Father....but I'm definitely not an expert on her writings.
I've got a lot to do before tomorrow (cable guy is coming) AND I woke up with a really bad headache and stomach "stuff", so I'll try to pop in and out if I can. Truth be told, I feel like just going back to bed and getting over whatever this is....but I can't.
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TrustAndObey
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Let me say this first...if I DON'T jive with what EGW taught on this subject or if it's something I can't suppress in order to stay in the Adventist church, I will leave.
Plain and simple.
I'd go quietly and not try to take people with me. I'd just go.
I have no desire to change anyone's mind about the Trinity, it's just how I feel after reading the bible and praying about it.....and it goes against EVERYTHING I was taught as a child.
I wouldn't try to change Adventists anymore than I would try to change the Baptist friends I left behind.
Plain and simple.
I'd go quietly and not try to take people with me. I'd just go.
I have no desire to change anyone's mind about the Trinity, it's just how I feel after reading the bible and praying about it.....and it goes against EVERYTHING I was taught as a child.
I wouldn't try to change Adventists anymore than I would try to change the Baptist friends I left behind.
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RC_NewProtestants
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Ok but I will answer you in the other thread. As we talk of rules saying that people should stay on the thread topic it makes sense that we actually practice what we want to use as rules.
By the way I have no problem going against the views of EGW, as I grew up in the SDA church and I never felt that we should build our doctrines upon her views.
I also believe that the search for truth may need to cause change in any denomination, I don't hold any denomination as above the need or possibility of changing their teachings. So I don't feel that agitators of change as a problem.
By the way I have no problem going against the views of EGW, as I grew up in the SDA church and I never felt that we should build our doctrines upon her views.
I also believe that the search for truth may need to cause change in any denomination, I don't hold any denomination as above the need or possibility of changing their teachings. So I don't feel that agitators of change as a problem.
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NightEternal
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Good grief Trust, who have you been talking to and what have they been telling you? 
Disagreeing with EGW on certain points is not a crime. You have a mind of your own, EGW doesn't do your thinking for you. She was not infallible in matters of doctrine and faith-that distinction belongs to the Bible alone.
It's the warped understanding of inspiration which demands that all of our conclusions fall into line with the SOP, not human rationale.
So you may not be entirely Orthodox Traditional. I can think of worse things to be.
I hope you won't resort to such drastic measures over this issue. There is absolutely no reason why you would have to leave the church.
Disagreeing with EGW on certain points is not a crime. You have a mind of your own, EGW doesn't do your thinking for you. She was not infallible in matters of doctrine and faith-that distinction belongs to the Bible alone.
It's the warped understanding of inspiration which demands that all of our conclusions fall into line with the SOP, not human rationale.
So you may not be entirely Orthodox Traditional. I can think of worse things to be.
I hope you won't resort to such drastic measures over this issue. There is absolutely no reason why you would have to leave the church.
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TrustAndObey
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I got my beliefs from the bible alone, that's what I'm saying.
And Night, I agree with the Baptist denomination on a LOT of their teachings, but on the crucial ones....no way. So I left that church.
The same goes for this one. If it stands on a foundation that I don't agree with I would leave.
That's me, that's what I do.
But seriously, from the EGW quotes Maco has supplied, I think I fall right in line with her writings.
When your beliefs don't jive with the message of your church, why stay? That's how *I* feel about it.
And RC, I'm a thread derailer extraordinaire, but I WAS talking about differences in Progressive and Tradtional (the title of the thread) and you came in with the subject of the Trinity....so I don't take credit for this one.
Did you start a new thread about this already (you mentioned the "other" thread) or did you want me to? If you want me to, it'll have to be after I get some stuff done, okay? I've either got to get this done or wait until next week and I can't really do it then because I'll be in classes.
Peace out my brothers.
And Night, I agree with the Baptist denomination on a LOT of their teachings, but on the crucial ones....no way. So I left that church.
The same goes for this one. If it stands on a foundation that I don't agree with I would leave.
That's me, that's what I do.
But seriously, from the EGW quotes Maco has supplied, I think I fall right in line with her writings.
When your beliefs don't jive with the message of your church, why stay? That's how *I* feel about it.
And RC, I'm a thread derailer extraordinaire, but I WAS talking about differences in Progressive and Tradtional (the title of the thread) and you came in with the subject of the Trinity....so I don't take credit for this one.
Did you start a new thread about this already (you mentioned the "other" thread) or did you want me to? If you want me to, it'll have to be after I get some stuff done, okay? I've either got to get this done or wait until next week and I can't really do it then because I'll be in classes.
Peace out my brothers.
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sentipente
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I understand T&O's dilemma. If you left Church A because you did not agree with all its teachings how can you justify remaining in Church B when you also do not agree with all its teachings? The question that rises is "Where will you find a church that has teachings that you agree with in their entirety?"
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sentipente
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Not if the reason you left one church was because you believed that your new church was the "true" church -- the way into heaven. You are stuck until someone comes along with better evidence that they are the true church. It would take a lot of gall to believe that you can now start the true church
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I suppose so. Just goes to show salvation by church membership is a dangerous doctrine to practise.
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Thanks to those of you who tried to help me out some. I really appreciate that.
However, I have to admit, I am a little disappointed. It seems that all I've hear are vague generalizations that aren't incredibly helpful along with this huge argument that you are all now in.
It seems to me that the problem is that no one really understands anyone and no one is really trying. I still don't understand why there is a split between the two groups.
Therefore, I'm rewording my question. (Hopefully this will not spark off other arguments). I want to know who considers themselves a traditionalist and who considers themselves a progressive and why. You cannot classify or refer to the group you do not categorize yourself in.
Okay, let's try this again.
However, I have to admit, I am a little disappointed. It seems that all I've hear are vague generalizations that aren't incredibly helpful along with this huge argument that you are all now in.
It seems to me that the problem is that no one really understands anyone and no one is really trying. I still don't understand why there is a split between the two groups.
Therefore, I'm rewording my question. (Hopefully this will not spark off other arguments). I want to know who considers themselves a traditionalist and who considers themselves a progressive and why. You cannot classify or refer to the group you do not categorize yourself in.
Okay, let's try this again.
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