Question about the flood

[GatodeQ]

Well then you merely as much as admitted your error. In fact your error is more than doubled. First since Hitler was a Christian and he based a lot of hate on his religious beliefs it would be far more correct to try to tie Mein Kampf to the Bible. Second we know that Darwin's work predated Mein Kampf and we know that the Epic of Gilgamesh predated Genesis.

Apparently, Hitler's family was Catholic, but that does not make Adolf Hitler a Christian in the sense of a follower of Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, I like how you highlight the chronological issue

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's why some people think the Garden of Eden was in China.

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

While I need to research and pray over this one more, my first impression in being a student of God's Word is that the Garden of Eden is in Jerusalem. The Heavenly city called "New Jerusalem" has the tree of life there (Read the end of Revelation 21 and the beginning of Revelation 22). The faithful saints who are taken home will be allowed to eat of this tree of life in the city of New Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is where Christ died for our sins (the climax of our story), and Jerusalem is the end of our story. It makes sense that Jerusalem is the our beginning story, as well.


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[GatodeQ]

I already provided several reasons already in response to your question alreadly.
Are they not good enough?
Isaiah 55:8 says our thoughts are not God's thoughts.
Surely He knows what he is doing even if we do not understand it.


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I agree with you on that Jason0047, the fact that we don't understand something does not make it false.
And yes, you did provide reasons why, but my question really was : Why not just re-create them after the flood?
I'm new here and learning. I will try and make my questions clearer in the future. This one was misleading and I apologize.
And for the recored,Jason0047, I am not here to mock God. I am here looking for opinions, ideas, evidence, and so on. I do not mock God nor people. That accusation was hurtful.

 

[GatodeQ]

Are you interested in any real answer here?


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Sorry Jason0047, I'm not sure how you got this impression.

 

[Herman Hedning]

That's an interesting point Herman Hedning. I've never heard of this before. Is it in the book of Genesis? Yes, I am guilty of never reading it...

Yes, it is prominently featured in Genesis 8:20-21:

Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

God obviously really, really loves a good barbecue.

 

[AV1611VET]

I know AV1611VET, but as I mentioned in my first post, what puzzles me is:
"The animals were his own creation. He could have re-created them after the flood."

God certainly works in mysterious ways, does He not?

Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

God might have destroyed all the animal creation, and created others to occupy the new world, but he chose rather to preserve those already created. The Creator and Preserver of the universe does nothing but what is essentially necessary to be done. Nothing should be wantonly wasted; nor should power or skill be lavished where no necessity exists; and yet it required more means and economy to preserve the old than to have created new ones. Such respect has God to the work of his hands, that nothing but what is essential to the credit of his justice and holiness shall ever induce him to destroy any thing he has made.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree with you on that Jason0047, the fact that we don't understand something does not make it false.
And yes, you did provide reasons why, but my question really was : Why not just re-create them after the flood?
I'm new here and learning. I will try and make my questions clearer in the future. This one was misleading and I apologize.
And for the recored,Jason0047, I am not here to mock God. I am here looking for opinions, ideas, evidence, and so on. I do not mock God nor people. That accusation was hurtful.

Atheism is the position that says, "There is no God and that His Word is not true." This is a direct insult to God by saying this. You have to realize that most atheists are insulting to God with their words and those who have faith in Him in general. Just look at post #125. You cannot go onto a Christian forum without God and His Word being mocked by atheists. The other atheist I was talking with before is out to mock God because he throws away any evidence for God's Word (without examining the evidence) and he is insulting towards me. He is calling a God a liar by saying that the global flood did not happen when the Bible clearly says that it does. The Bible also uses harsh words for those who deny God existence, too (Psalms 14:1). So all atheists are especially guilty before a Holy God (including you if your position is atheism that says: "There is no God"). But if you are considering in having faith in God and His Word and you are honestly seeking and looking for answers then that is different. You would be an Agnostic and not an Atheist. Most atheists I have encountered are really tough to deal with. They insult me and they immediately discard any evidence even though I provide it. This tells me that most atheists are not seeking God or answers in His Word. But this does not mean atheists cannot change. I know. I used to be an atheist. Lee Strobel (an highly esteemed journalist who used to work with the police department) used to be an atheist. The movie called "Case for Christ" (is a film on his real life) and it just came out on DVD in major stores and should be worth your while to check out.

Here is the Trailer:

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[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry Jason0047, I'm not sure how you got this impression.

Because you did not reply to my answer in the beginning of the thread here and you are still asking the same question.


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[Bible Highlighter]

It was you that implied them:

"Atheists swear, view porn, hate, murder, celebrate in sinful things with no remorse. I used to be an atheist, and there were many sins I had to repent of."​

But there is a difference. I am not doing those things. Yet, I do know for a fact that atheists do these things. I used to be an atheist and I used to be around unbelievers. So I know how they can act. To say they do not do these things would be simply laughable. But Jesus can set the atheist free and help them to stop sinning.

'Absolute Morality' has been a problem since before the The Euthyphro dilemma, over 400 years BC.

Not having 'Absolute Morality' doesn't mean no morality. There are universal fundamentals of morality (some shared even by other animals), because they promote social flourishing, cooperation, and survival; i.e. they have a selective advantage in evolutionary terms.

Absolute Morality is taught in Scripture is not the problem. It is sinful man that is the problem.
But do not kid yourself into thinking Evolutionism (Atheism) is all lolipops and kittens. The very idea of Evolutionism promotes immorality and a lack of having no purpose or meaning meaning to life in this world. For if you just evolved from being a single celled organism, this means that there is no such thing as murder because a single celled organism eliminating another single celled organism is just the process of natural selection. No true morality exists because nobody has to answer to anyone that has laid down a standard of morality that all can agree upon. Morality is subjective to the individual. You can do what Thou wilt. But this is wrong because there is a Holy and just God and man will have to give an account to Him.

There is no doubt there is a connection to leading a life that can be evil that is tied to believing in Evolutionism. Just look at the testimony by Jeffrey Dauhmer here:

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[Bugeyedcreepy]

When we talk about the faith in God and the Holy Scriptures, the Lord has given a measure of faith to every man (Romans 12:3). It is why you are here most of the time and not a Muslim or Buddah forum trying to convince them that their beliefs are wrong.

I spend just as much time on any religious idea that curtails science in its wake. I also challenge flat earthers and anti-vaxxers for the same reason, so your extreme views derived from your religious influence aren't all I have a problem with.

You come here because deep down you know it is true and you are trying to justify your belief against God and His Word by what you say here. For people rob banks because they have value inside them. You are trying to rob people of the truth because you prefer this world and it's ways and not God.

I beg to differ - if I knew God was real and that there were such thing as an afterlife, I'd be doing everything I could to maximise that. But that's simply not the case. Instead, I spend time here for reasons similar to those above I mentioned. the problem I see is that these religious personal views contribute to lawmakers trying to impose their personal faith on the population of both believers of other faiths and non-believers all the same. that's a problem for all of us because in our developed world, this is impeding scientific progress and technology for the sake of an idea that isn't substantiated above other ideas in any way.

As for God not re-creating the animals: Well, for one, God does not have to do things your way or the Burger King way. It is actually rather simple. God had stopped from His work of creation on the sixth day of the creation week. This is symbolic of how Jesus would say, "It is finished." on the cross when He paid the price for mankind's sins so as to offer him the free gift of salvation. God starts things and then finishes them. Unlike many people today. They start things and do not finish them. But God is faithful to His promises and always finishes what He promises to us. Fulfilled prophecy is yet one more piece of evidence that leaves people without excuse if they were to be objective about looking at such prophecies.

Did God run out of power to create more life? There isn't any verifiable prophecy that has a unique one-time fit for confirmation, do you know of one? And why couldn't God just forgive us, why does he need to sacrifice his son, does he lack the power to forgive without a blood sacrifice? Also, what did the Lions eat on the ark.... and post ark for that matter? Same for foxes, wolves, bears, T-Rex, etc.? Say nothing of the elephants that need 200-600 pounds of foliage each day to survive... there's so much wrong with the concept and so much that needs explaining away as a young earth creationist, especially in spite of all the evidence to the contrary that for a rational person to take this point of view on board is absurdness of the highest order.

That is surely not a nice thing to say. I do not have these failings as you imply.

But it is common for atheists to see no harm in these things because there is no such thing as Absolute Morality in their world view.

So, I take it you only beat your slaves so they can still get up after a day or two then? Also, you no doubt stone your unruly children to death at the edge of town too, right? You got me there, I could never uphold either of these "absolute morality" standards, I'll stick to my morals thanks all the same.

Have a good, open minded, look at the website and consider the evidence produced. You might not believe it after that, and I would respect that. It just so happens that I do believe it. You can use Google to find the website.

Ron Wyatt is great at spinning a yarn, nothing he's found, discovered, uncovered, whatever has any verifiable evidence at all. Evidence is something that can be verified independently by someone else. If it can't be independently verified, then it isn't evidence.

There is an increasing number of modern scientists who are making discovery after discovery that the Biblical history is true. Scores of scientists are now showing that evolution is just a theory and will always remain a theory which has been adopted as a "religion" by those who don't want to accept the Biblical account. It actually takes more blind faith to believe in evolution that it takes to believe the Biblical Genesis account.

Citation please. This seems to be an endless observation of creationists which never has traction. Evolution isn't even challenged in the Scientific Community, I'd be interested to see your evidence of course.

 

[JoeP222w]

What was the purpose of saving the animals?

To prolong the species that were aboard the Ark.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Besides animals being food for us, they also can make great pets;
Animals can also teach us things, too.

“Go to the ant, you sluggard! Consider her ways and be wise” (Proverbs 6:6).

Also, God cares for the animals.

"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father." (Matthew 10:29).

"So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." (Matthew 10:31).


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So therefor, he didn't have all of them killed, but only 99.99% of them.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Nobody goes to a doctor to get their car fixed. So no. You are wrong. You have to have faith and believe in the Scriptures in order to get understanding from the Lord. It is a spiritual book that is spiritually discerned.


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One needs to believe X, before one can understand X?

How do you believe something (=accept as true), before understanding it?
How can one justify such a belief?

 

[Amazing Horse]

This question is very simple .

No animals = No Sacrifice = No Remission of sins for Jews before Christ come ( Hebrews 9:22) .

God does not change ( Malachi 3:6 ) so as he required blood for Abel and Cain , he require it after flood .

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yup.

Where the Antichrist will come from.

And there I was, thinking that Obama was the anti-christ.

 

[Amazing Horse]

And there I was, thinking that Obama was the anti-christ.

Church will leave before antichrist is revealed , Obama could be just hidden antichrist and could be revealed some time after just as Judas Iscariot was man before Satan came into him (Luke 22:3) .

 

[Amazing Horse]

One needs to believe X, before one can understand X?

How do you believe something (=accept as true), before understanding it?
How can one justify such a belief?

God does not want to punish you , and your punishment is equal to what you know at that time , if he gave you whole truth all at once and you reject then your punishment would be much greater than if you did not know (Luke 12:47-48).

That's why Jesus spoke to people in parables , not to make things easier to understand but to them that believe in him , he gave hidden truth , so if they find it they will understand more and more , however to his disciples which alredy knew who Jesus is he explained parables .

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

But there is a difference. I am not doing those things. Yet, I do know for a fact that atheists do these things. I used to be an atheist and I used to be around unbelievers.

It's simple deductive logic - if, as you said, atheists do bad things, and you were an atheist, then it follows that you did bad things. It's a crass generalisation, but it's yours; either own it or retract it.

...do not kid yourself into thinking Evolutionism (Atheism) is all lolipops and kittens.

You need to get out more. Acceptance of evolution is not exclusive to atheists. In the US more religious people accept evolution than there are atheists.

The very idea of Evolutionism promotes immorality and a lack of having no purpose or meaning meaning to life in this world.

Lol! no, it doesn't. You'll find almost atheists in general are as moral, if not more so, than religious folk, and find plenty of purpose and meaning in this world. There are whole countries where atheists are in the majority that have more moral and humane social systems and an order of magnitude less crime and incarceration than the US does.

For if you just evolved from being a single celled organism, this means that there is no such thing as murder because a single celled organism eliminating another single celled organism is just the process of natural selection.

Don't be silly. We may have evolved from single-celled organisms but we're now complex social beings; moral rules are built on the basic rules of cooperation without which social groups cannot succeed. All social mammals have basic social rules, as do many other animals, including birds.

No true morality exists because nobody has to answer to anyone that has laid down a standard of morality that all can agree upon. Morality is subjective to the individual.

Wrong; morality is a function of group cooperation. Individual behaviour is subject to group mores.

There is no doubt there is a connection to leading a life that can be evil that is tied to believing in Evolutionism. Just look at the testimony by Jeffrey Dauhmer here:..

More silliness - Dauhmer was a known psychopath; his 'conversion' and 'repentance' was a standard manipulative ploy - were you taken in by it? But in any case, you'll find that there have been uncountably more atrocities committed in the name of religion than in the name of evolution - in fact I'd be curious to know if you can come up with single atrocity committed in the name of evolution.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I spend just as much time on any religious idea that curtails science in its wake. I also challenge flat earthers and anti-vaxxers for the same reason, so your extreme views derived from your religious influence aren't all I have a problem with.

I do not believe in a Flat Earth. But I do not believe in taking in flu shots just because everyone else does it. I remember one guy at work got really really sick after he received his flu shot. Now, if there is a deadly virus around that is killing people on an island, I am not opposed to taking a shot if I know it could save my life. It depends on the situation of exposure to such things.

See this article here:
10 Reasons Why Flu Shots Are More Dangerous Than a Flu!

I beg to differ - if I knew God was real and that there were such thing as an afterlife, I'd be doing everything I could to maximise that.

No you wouldn't. Otherwise you would be a believer by now. Remember, there are atheists who were die hard in believing in Atheism and Evolutionism; Yet, Jesus Christ changed their lives.

Instead, I spend time here for reasons similar to those above I mentioned. the problem I see is that these religious personal views contribute to lawmakers trying to impose their personal faith on the population of both believers of other faiths and non-believers all the same. that's a problem for all of us because in our developed world, this is impeding scientific progress and technology for the sake of an idea that isn't substantiated above other ideas in any way.

Macro- Evolutionism is not Scientific Progress but it is a fairy tale whereby folks are chasing their own tail or the wind.

Did God run out of power to create more life?

God finished the creation on Day 6. It is not a lack of power but one of His own divine choice. Why?
Because of faith. God wants us to have faith in Him. Not an unreasonable faith; For the creation declares His glory whereby man is without excuse of His existence.

There isn't any verifiable prophecy that has a unique one-time fit for confirmation, do you know of one?

See these Mathematical prophecies at these links here:

Mathematical Bible Prophecy
Mathematical Bible Prophecy

Then there is the hundreds of Messianic Prophecies that have been fulfilled:

AccordingtotheScriptures.org :: 353 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

Then there are the Typifications of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament (Which are in the hundreds for the Life Story of Joseph in Genesis) and then there is the Pre-Incarnate Appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament, too.

The Dead Sea Scrolls discovery shows us the accuracy of these prophecies; So nobody can say that they wrote down these prophecies later on (after the fact).

And why couldn't God just forgive us, why does he need to sacrifice his son, does he lack the power to forgive without a blood sacrifice?

A lack of a sacrifice and or blood would undermine the weight of a person's sins and it would not resolve justice. It would not give anyone a real gravity or weight of their own sin if they knew no consequences were attached to them in the world. The sacrifice of an innocent is the balance that makes us to reconsider our evil ways. Also, take for example: When a loving father pushes his son out of the way of a moving car whereby he gets hit is considered a great act of love. A person who is willing to lay down his life for another out of love is considered one of the highest forms of love that there is. A person who is self sacrificing in service to their wife is considered devoted and loving. The Bible says the life of the flesh is in the blood. So it makes sense that if life is to be granted, that blood would have to be involved. A consequence would have to be involved for sin which brings death. God wants to show us that there are serious consequences to our wrong actions. Sin brings death; So only life (the life of the flesh in blood) can have any true hope of cleansing sin (Which brings death). Many believers today are still moved by the love of God of His sending His only Son to be a sacrifice for us to die in our place. But this was not a permanent sacrifice where the Son stayed dead. The Son had risen from the grave and lives today. Death is not the end for those who are of God's Kingdom.

Also, what did the Lions eat on the ark....

The Bible does not specifically say. But there are many possibilties that can easily resolve this. God could have put the carnivores in a deep sleep; Or the carnivores that we have come to know of today ate vegetation until after the global flood. Genesis 1:30 is suggestive that all animals ate only plants.

"And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so." (Genesis 1:30).

After the Global Flood, God told man that he could hunt the animals for food.

"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." (Genesis 9:3-4).

So it is very possible that when man was commanded to eat of the animals, that the animals themselves also were given the same allowance by God. For man was supposed to have dominion and rule over the animals (Genesis 1:26).

and post ark for that matter? Same for foxes, wolves, bears, T-Rex, etc.? Say nothing of the elephants that need 200-600 pounds of foliage each day to survive...

With God all things are possible. God can do miracles. So God simply could have made the animals to be comforted or God have brought food from angels for them. For in Exodus, God brought manna (bread) down from Heaven for the Israelites (See Exodus 16). It is not impossible for God to bring food down from Heaven for the animals if it was absolutely necessary. But I do not think it was needed. I think there was enough room on the Ark for both the food and the animals. But if you think there might have not been enough room for the food, this is not a problem for God who can make miracles to happen.

there's so much wrong with the concept and so much that needs explaining away as a young earth creationist, especially in spite of all the evidence to the contrary that for a rational person to take this point of view on board is absurdness of the highest order.

Not at all. You are living in a Scientific World without God. But with God all things are possible.

So, I take it you only beat your slaves so they can still get up after a day or two then?

The church under the New Covenant or New Testament was given no major commands from God in regards to owning slaves like the nation of Israel was given. Also, there was no mistreatment of any slaves, either; The slaves also had the choice to be set free on the seventh year of Jubilee. The mistreatment of slaves is condemned in Scripture; And the Bible forbids forcing somebody who is free to be your slave. So you do not know what you are talking about. You are like most atheists who have a slanted view of what the Bible actually says.

Also, you no doubt stone your unruly children to death at the edge of town too, right?

The church is not the same as the nation of Israel. Believers today are not under the Old Covenant but the New Covenant whereby they are commanded to pray, do good, and to love their enemies.

If you want to get a little more perspective of what is going on in the Law of a rebellious son being potentially stoned, please read this article here.

Also, you have to take note that this was not an adolescent child but a young adult who was cancerous to the community as a whole and to the family. This was also not a one time act of rebellion but a continual rebellious son who refused any correction who was more often times was a drunk, etc. What loving parent would want to harm their own child? So the stoning of a child was no doubt a last resort for any family if they found that their son's behavior was seriously harming others that were innocent. But if you want to take the moral high ground on this one, then why does the atheistic world believe in murdering babies inside a mother's womb when they are innocent?

You got me there, I could never uphold either of these "absolute morality" standards, I'll stick to my morals thanks all the same.

There is no such things as Atheist morals. Morals in the world of Atheism is all subjective to the individual. There is no general consensus to what is good and right. In God's Kingdom, God makes the law that is to be the general consensus. Atheists believe they come from the slime. So if they thought they just evolved by the process of natural selection or the survival of the fittest, one can do anything they wanted and it would not really matter.

Ron Wyatt is great at spinning a yarn, nothing he's found, discovered, uncovered, whatever has any verifiable evidence at all.

Yes, I think Ron Wyatt is a fraud. But as I said before, even a blind squirrel can get lucky and find a nut. I believe the discovery of the Red Sea crossing (at the gulf of Aqaba) and Mt. Sina (i.e. Jabal al-Lawz in Saudi Arabia nearby) are significant and eye opening discoveries. You can't fake geography. The locations fit the biblical account to a "T." But I know this is not enough to excite you in any way because you have the mind set of rejecting any evidence that comes from the Bible (no matter how good it is).

Evidence is something that can be verified independently by someone else. If it can't be independently verified, then it isn't evidence.

Well, there are many great Biblical evidences that back up the Bible. Such as...

The hidden code in the Hebrew Scriptures:

Then there is Biblical Numerics.

This is not looking to divine the future from numbers like Pagan Numerology or treating numbers as if they should rule your life or anything silly like that. The purpose of Biblical Numerics is to merely show us that God's Word is divine. For just looking at the meaning of the numbers in the Bible based on how they are used repeatedly show us a specific meaning (glorifying His Word). For example, Christ was in the wilderness 40 days and 40 nights. This was like a trial. Noah was also in a trial, too. He was in the Ark for 40 days and 40 nights. In other words, the number 40 in the Bible is simply telling us that it relates to a trial or testing.

Anyways, please check out this video here on the amazing occurences on the number 8 in the King James Bible.

Watch the video until the very end. it has information taken from the Bible itself that will blow your mind (Especially towards the end of the video).

Also, here is a great video on the number 7 in the Greek language by Chuck Missler, as well.

Also, what is fascinating is that it is 49 letter intervals that is used in discovering this Hebrew Torah message (That Chuck Missler talks about in his video that I shown above) that glorifies God in the Torah; And yet we coincidentally see this 49 letter intervals again with another interesting fact revealed that glorifies the Lord again within the Scriptures.

What am I talking about?

A short genealogy of David in Genesis 38.


online uploader

Talk about God glorifying His own Word!!!

Citation please. This seems to be an endless observation of creationists which never has traction. Evolution isn't even challenged in the Scientific Community, I'd be interested to see your evidence of course.

It is more like a lack of evidence that makes Evolution hard to believe. If it was true, then we should see tons of transitional fossils of many animals everywhere. We should see half giraffe half something else bones all over, but we don't. We should see animals even slowly evolving into other species today, but we don't see this. What you got are pretty little pictures showing Evolution of animals and bones in a museum saying that such a thing happened. That's it. That's all you got. A theory that does not have any real weight or evidence to it. Change in variations within a species own kind (Micro-Evolution) is not proof of Macro Evolution (i.e. a particular kind of animal changing into a completely different animal like a fish turning into a reptile or a reptile turning into a bird or a monkey turning into a man).


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[Bible Highlighter]

So therefor, he didn't have all of them killed, but only 99.99% of them.

But death is not the end. I believe the Scriptures teach that even the animal kindom will be resurrected one day. For the creature (i.e. the animals) are currently awaiting the glorious manifestations of the sons of God.

19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." (Romans 8:19-23).


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