Question about the flood

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So what? Why would I care what a character in a book written by man supposedly said?

If you claim that there was a worldwide flood you are in effect calling God a liar. So how do you explain this self contradiction of yours?

The Bible says there was a world wide flood.

19 "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days." (Genesis 7:19-24).
 
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Astrophile

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Seashells on top of mountains

The seashells aren't resting on top of the mountains; they are in the rocks that make up the mountains. The seashells on the surface of the rock are those that have been exposed by erosion; they weren't deposited on the mountain as it is now.

fossilized trees going through various different rock layers that atheists falsely say are millions of years each

The layers containing the fossilized trees probably represent at most a few hundred or a few thousand years. They were deposited in a short enough time for the tree trunks not to have rotted away. No geologists, atheists or religious, think that these rock layers represent millions of years.

global flood legends in every culture

All human settlements developed near to a source of water, usually a river or lake, and therefore on relatively low ground. Rivers and lakes are subject to floods, due for example to heavy rain or to snowmelt in the mountains where they have their source, and low-lying ground is also subject to flooding. Coastal areas are also subject to flooding by storm surges or tsunamis. For this reason, all cultures are likely to develop a flood legend.

fossil graveyards that appeared to be from flooding all over the world

These 'fossil graveyards' are of different ages, and they preserve animals belonging to extinct species. They may be the remains of animals that were drowned in local floods, or they may be the result of long-term accumulations in locations that were particularly favourable for the preservation of fossils.

ancient cities under the ocean on the ocean floor.

Can you give links from archaeological sources for these submarine cities? Even if these are real cities, rather than natural rock formations, they are not necessarily all the same age.
 
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The Bible says there was a world wide flood.

19 "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days." (Genesis 7:19-24).
Correct, so are you now claiming that the Bible lied? It appears that you are not being consistent.

Most Christians do not believe in a dishonest God, which is why most do not believe the flood myth.
 
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The seashells aren't resting on top of the mountains; they are in the rocks that make up the mountains.



The layers containing the fossilized trees probably represent at most a few hundred or a few thousand years. They were deposited in a short enough time for the tree trunks not to have rotted away



fossil graveyards that appeared to be from flooding all over the world, ancient cities under the ocean on the ocean floor.

Not looking to convince you. You are already without excuse that there is a God by His miraculous creation (Romans 1:20).
 
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Correct, so are you now claiming that the Bible lied? It appears that you are not being consistent.

Most Christians do not believe in a dishonest God, which is why most do not believe the flood myth.

You are calling God a liar.

"He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son." (1 John 5:10).

This is where it begins.

Jesus.

If you do not have Jesus, you are not going to believe or understand what the Bible says.
 
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You are calling God a liar.

No, I am not. If anyone is calling God a liar you are.

"He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son." (1 John 5:10).

This is where it begins.

Jesus.

If you do not have Jesus, you are not going to believe or understand what the Bible says.

Sorry, but a quote out of context from a book written by man does not support your claim.

You keep calling God a liar. The sad thing is that you do not see how you are doing that.

By the way, you also broke the Ninth Commandment. You bore false witness against me. You need to prove that one has to believe the Bible to understand it, and you can't use the Bible for that purpose.

If anything atheists understand the Bible better than most Christians. I appear to understand it better than you do.
 
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No, I am not. If anyone is calling God a liar you are.



Sorry, but a quote out of context from a book written by man does not support your claim.

You keep calling God a liar. The sad thing is that you do not see how you are doing that.

Jesus says, "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:47).
 
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Jesus says, "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:47).


No, that is not what "Jesus said" that is merely what a book in the Bible claims that Jesus said.

John was the last Gospel written. Perhaps as much as 70 years after Jesus's death. It was not written by an eyewitness.
 
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No, that is not what "Jesus said" that is merely what a book in the Bible claims that Jesus said.

John was the last Gospel written. Perhaps as much as 70 years after Jesus's death. It was not written by an eyewitness.

Not at all. Atheists have tried to disprove the accuracy of the gospels and they actually became Christians in the process. Even the text itself is divine in origin. If you know anything about Biblical numerics, then you would not question God's Word. Even the chinese language was founded upon the early narratives of the Holy Scriptures.

So repent and accept Jesus now while there is still time.
Jesus loves you and wants to give you a peace that you have never known.
 
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Not at all. Atheists have tried to disprove the accuracy of the gospels and they actually became Christians in the process. Even the text itself is divine in origin. If you know anything about Biblical numerics, then you would not question God's Word. Even the chinese language was founded upon the early narratives of the Holy Scriptures.

And some parts of the gospels have been shown to be wrong. I really don't know of any that became Christians in the process. And no, the Chinese language had nothing to do with the scriptures. Now you are believing the claims of a fool. That claim has been completely blown out of the water. You need to try to not believe everyone that appears to agree with you.

So repent and accept Jesus now while there is still time.
Jesus loves you and wants to give you a peace that you have never known.

Or you could repent and try to learn. As a Christian you really should not keep calling God a liar.

This is really not the place to debate the veracity of the Bible. That belongs more in apologetics, of course you will lose there as well. The Bible is filled with errors. Of course that is not what makes an atheist and atheist. Many, if not most Christians, realize that the Bible is far from perfect. One cannot be informed and honest and claim that the Bible has no errors. One either has to keep oneself ignorant. Or one must lie.

But expecting the Bible to be perfect is an unreasonable belief for a Christian. If God could not get his creation right how could he get an imperfect creation to perfectly record what happened? If is illogical to say the least. Most Christians accept the Bible flaws and all. That does not mean that they think it is perfect. They take its flaws are part of the book.
 
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Aman777

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Wrong again. You are conflating your fantasy unsupportable interpretation of the Bible with reality.

Is that WHY you cannot refute my view either Scripturally, scientifically or historically? Of course it is. It's that way with all people who think they are smarter than God. Amen?
 
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Is that WHY you cannot refute my view either Scripturally, scientifically or historically? Of course it is. It's that way with all people who think they are smarter than God. Amen?
I refuted your nonsense many times over. At this point I merely point out your errors.
 
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Aman777

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Jesus said that no man ascends to Heaven except Himself, when He said,

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13 KJV)​

In other words, no man has ascended physically to Heaven but Jesus (i.e. the Son of Man).

Jesus was the FIRST to ascend to the 3rd Heaven in order to sprinkle His blood on the mercy seat. Paul also was taken to the 3rd Heaven to get the Gospel of Jesus Christ from Him.

*** Yeah, but what about Elijah?

Elijah went to Paradise. In order to have preeminence Col 1:18 or first place in everything, Jesus was the first man to enter Heaven.

***I believe confusion arises on this point because people do not understand that there are:


Three Heavens

The Scripture mentions three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one!

The First Heaven:

The first heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25;34:20,Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3). One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven' is shamayim. This same word is translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, "fowls also of the air," with Genesis 7:23, "fowl of the heaven." The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:8). So the first heaven is synonymous with 'heights' or 'elevations.'

False, since the Heaven that THEN WAS was totally destroyed in the flood. 2Pe 3:6 It "perished" which in Greek means destroyed totally utterly.

The present Heaven/Cosmos or the Heavens and Earth WHICH ARE NOW will be BURNED. 2Pe 3:7

*** Here are other examples to illustrate the first heaven. Exodus 19:20 says the Lord was on top of Mount Sinai when he called Moses up there, and God describes Mount Sinai as 'heaven' (Exodus 20:22, Deuteronomy 4:36). Here, everything above the ground is called 'heaven'.

Another example of the first heaven is in Amos 9:1-3, where God states that at the time of this judgment, nobody will be able to flee away (verse 1), even "though they climb up to heaven" (verse 2). This "heaven" is defined in the next verse, verse 3, as climbing to the top of Mount Carmel.

Another example is where the Scripture speaks of the "dew of heaven" (Genesis 27:28,39,Deuteronomy 33:28, Daniel 4:15-33; 5:21). The first heaven, from which dew comes, means the atmosphere, where the clouds and the wind roam. Therefore, everything above the ground is called 'heaven."

Another Hebrew word for the first heaven is 'shachaq.' This same word for heaven (Psalm 89:6,37) is also translated as 'sky' or 'skies' (Deuteronomy 33:26; Job 37:18; Psalm 18:11), and as 'clouds' (Job 35:5; 36:28; Psalm 36:5; 68:34, Pro. 3:20; 8:28).

The Second Heaven:

The second heaven is outer space where the planets and stars exist (Genesis 1:14-17; 15:5;22:17;26:4, Deuteronomy 1:10; 17:3; Psalm 8:3, Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29). Usually the term "host of heaven" or "firmament of the heaven" is used to describe this second heaven.

False, since it would be really hard to burn Space. You are following the superstitious thinking of ancient men who lived thousands of years before Science. God tells Daniel that the people of the "last days" will have the "increased knowledge" to understand. Dan 12:4 IOW, you are following the wrong people.

The Third Heaven:

The third heaven is literally called "the third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:2. This third heaven is what Christ calls his "Father's house" (John 14:2), and both Christ and the Apostle Paul calls it "paradise" (Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Revelation 2:7). This is where God and the heavenly sanctuary exist (1 Peter 3:22). This third heaven is also known as the "heaven of heavens" (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27, 2 Chronicles 2:6; 6:18, Nehemiah 9:6, Psalms 148:4), "The heavenly Jerusalem" (Galatians 4: 26; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 3:12), the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 25:1, James 2:5), the "eternal kingdom" (2 Peter 1:11), the "eternal inheritance" (1 Peter. 1:4,Hebrews 9:15), and the "better country" (Hebrews 11:14,16). The fact that there are more than one 'heaven' can be shown by Psalm 115:16, "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S." There are obviously two different 'heavens' being addressed in this one verse.

Since Elijah could not have gone to the heaven of God's throne, then to which heaven did he go? He was not taken to God's heavenly throne (as some imagine). He was actually taken into this earth's atmosphere, the first heaven. There could be no whirlwind in any other place but in the atmosphere surrounding this earth.


Source:
Elijah, Enoch, and Moses
Important Note: Although I quoted part of this article to help explain the three heavens, I do not agree with their interpretation of on Enoch. I believe Enoch was translated or spiritually taken by God and did not see death (as the Scriptures say). So not all the views expressed at this website reflect my views on the Scriptures.

Enoch is not in the Canon and not a part of the Bible. Your website cannot explain it's view which AGREES with the Scoffers of the last days 2 Pet 3:3-7 who WILL NOT BELIEVE that Adam's entire firmament/heaven was "clean dissolved" Isa 24:19 in the flood. Do you? IF not, then your belief does NOT agree with Scripture. God Bless you
 
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Aman777

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I refuted your nonsense many times over. At this point I merely point out your errors.

Either produce your "refute" (prove wrong) evidence/post of ANY of my views, either Scripturally, scientifically or historically, or everyone will be exposed to your deceit. Such exposure will ruin your credibility. Many will see you just like Trump. Amen?
 
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And some parts of the gospels have been shown to be wrong. I really don't know of any that became Christians in the process. And no, the Chinese language had nothing to do with the scriptures. Now you are believing the claims of a fool. That claim has been completely blown out of the water. You need to try to not believe everyone that appears to agree with you.



Or you could repent and try to learn. As a Christian you really should not keep calling God a liar.

This is really not the place to debate the veracity of the Bible. That belongs more in apologetics, of course you will lose there as well. The Bible is filled with errors. Of course that is not what makes an atheist and atheist. Many, if not most Christians, realize that the Bible is far from perfect. One cannot be informed and honest and claim that the Bible has no errors. One either has to keep oneself ignorant. Or one must lie.

But expecting the Bible to be perfect is an unreasonable belief for a Christian. If God could not get his creation right how could he get an imperfect creation to perfectly record what happened? If is illogical to say the least. Most Christians accept the Bible flaws and all. That does not mean that they think it is perfect. They take its flaws are part of the book.

I used to be an atheist. But God had other plans for me. Not interested in your disbelief in God's Word.
So I am not going to read anymore of what you say.

May the Lord's love shine upon you.
 
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Jesus was the FIRST to ascend to the 3rd Heaven in order to sprinkle His blood on the mercy seat. Paul also was taken to the 3rd Heaven to get the Gospel of Jesus Christ from Him.

*** Yeah, but what about Elijah?

Elijah went to Paradise. In order to have preeminence Col 1:18 or first place in everything, Jesus was the first man to enter Heaven.

***I believe confusion arises on this point because people do not understand that there are:


Three Heavens

The Scripture mentions three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one!

The First Heaven:

The first heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25;34:20,Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3). One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven' is shamayim. This same word is translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, "fowls also of the air," with Genesis 7:23, "fowl of the heaven." The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:8). So the first heaven is synonymous with 'heights' or 'elevations.'

False, since the Heaven that THEN WAS was totally destroyed in the flood. 2Pe 3:6 It "perished" which in Greek means destroyed totally utterly.

The present Heaven/Cosmos or the Heavens and Earth WHICH ARE NOW will be BURNED. 2Pe 3:7

*** Here are other examples to illustrate the first heaven. Exodus 19:20 says the Lord was on top of Mount Sinai when he called Moses up there, and God describes Mount Sinai as 'heaven' (Exodus 20:22, Deuteronomy 4:36). Here, everything above the ground is called 'heaven'.

Another example of the first heaven is in Amos 9:1-3, where God states that at the time of this judgment, nobody will be able to flee away (verse 1), even "though they climb up to heaven" (verse 2). This "heaven" is defined in the next verse, verse 3, as climbing to the top of Mount Carmel.

Another example is where the Scripture speaks of the "dew of heaven" (Genesis 27:28,39,Deuteronomy 33:28, Daniel 4:15-33; 5:21). The first heaven, from which dew comes, means the atmosphere, where the clouds and the wind roam. Therefore, everything above the ground is called 'heaven."

Another Hebrew word for the first heaven is 'shachaq.' This same word for heaven (Psalm 89:6,37) is also translated as 'sky' or 'skies' (Deuteronomy 33:26; Job 37:18; Psalm 18:11), and as 'clouds' (Job 35:5; 36:28; Psalm 36:5; 68:34, Pro. 3:20; 8:28).

The Second Heaven:

The second heaven is outer space where the planets and stars exist (Genesis 1:14-17; 15:5;22:17;26:4, Deuteronomy 1:10; 17:3; Psalm 8:3, Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29). Usually the term "host of heaven" or "firmament of the heaven" is used to describe this second heaven.

False, since it would be really hard to burn Space. You are following the superstitious thinking of ancient men who lived thousands of years before Science. God tells Daniel that the people of the "last days" will have the "increased knowledge" to understand. Dan 12:4 IOW, you are following the wrong people.

The Third Heaven:

The third heaven is literally called "the third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:2. This third heaven is what Christ calls his "Father's house" (John 14:2), and both Christ and the Apostle Paul calls it "paradise" (Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Revelation 2:7). This is where God and the heavenly sanctuary exist (1 Peter 3:22). This third heaven is also known as the "heaven of heavens" (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27, 2 Chronicles 2:6; 6:18, Nehemiah 9:6, Psalms 148:4), "The heavenly Jerusalem" (Galatians 4: 26; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 3:12), the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 25:1, James 2:5), the "eternal kingdom" (2 Peter 1:11), the "eternal inheritance" (1 Peter. 1:4,Hebrews 9:15), and the "better country" (Hebrews 11:14,16). The fact that there are more than one 'heaven' can be shown by Psalm 115:16, "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S." There are obviously two different 'heavens' being addressed in this one verse.

Since Elijah could not have gone to the heaven of God's throne, then to which heaven did he go? He was not taken to God's heavenly throne (as some imagine). He was actually taken into this earth's atmosphere, the first heaven. There could be no whirlwind in any other place but in the atmosphere surrounding this earth.


Source:
Elijah, Enoch, and Moses
Important Note: Although I quoted part of this article to help explain the three heavens, I do not agree with their interpretation of on Enoch. I believe Enoch was translated or spiritually taken by God and did not see death (as the Scriptures say). So not all the views expressed at this website reflect my views on the Scriptures.

Enoch is not in the Canon and not a part of the Bible. Your website cannot explain it's view which AGREES with the Scoffers of the last days 2 Pet 3:3-7 who WILL NOT BELIEVE that Adam's entire firmament/heaven was "clean dissolved" Isa 24:19 in the flood. Do you? IF not, then your belief does NOT agree with Scripture. God Bless you

I think I took a wrong turn in the forums.
May the Lord's love be upon you.
I am moving on.
 
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