Question about Orthodox doctrine of Theosis

[Christianseeker]

Hello all

When I read Clark Carlton's The Faith: An Orthodox Catechism and also the OCA's online catechism pamphlets one of the ideas that made me a little uncomfortable was the idea of theosis.

"According to Orthodox theology, to bear the image of God is to be like Christ, the uncreated image of God, and to share in all the spiritual attributes of divinity. It is, in the words of the holy fathers, to become by divine grace all that God is by nature" (This is from the OCA online pamphlets "The Orthodox Faith" by the very Reverend Thomas Hopko)

But... but......God is omnipotant, all-knowing, all-holy, made everything there is from scratch! And there is only one God! Who is like God? There is no one like God.

Very likely I am not even beginning to understand this correctly. If the point is for each of us to develop into gods isn't that Neoplatonism? (or maybe it is called syncretism, that popular religion around the 1st C. AD where people performed rituals to draw down the grace of the gods and rose up through seven spheres, eventually becoming gods) Or does it mean we are eventually joined to God, loosing our individual natures? Was this idea influenced by Jewish mysticism? By mystical experiences of the early Fathers?

I know that in the Orthodox view not everything can be found in scriptures, but I wonder why such an important thing would have been left out. Where does this idea first come out in the teachings of the Fathers?

I don't mean to express any hostility here, or to start an argument or debate, it is a sincere question.

------------------------------------------------
--Sarah

Note on my faith icon: I'm using the "non denominational" one because I have not yet found a denomination or church that I feel comfortable in after my experience with the Episcopal Church. I am reading a lot and exploring the Catholic and Orthodox traditions as well as Protestant churches. I don't want to mislead anyone about what my perspective is.

 

[Oblio]

Questions are always welcome

Theosis - Achieving your potential in Christ

 

[emil_g]

Hello Sarah , i think you have to read the [2 Pet.1:4]

Emil

 

[Oblio]

1 John 3:1-3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[Iacobus]

Hi Sarah

You're right -- it is not possible for us to become God, in the sense that we are all-powerful, omnipotent, and all of the other attributes. Believe me, nobody wants to see yours truely as God.

But that is not what we mean by theosis. At the risk of getting a little dense, let me start by stepping back a bit, and coming at it from a different angle.

The Orthodox distinguish between the essence and the energies of God. It is certainly impossible for us to share in the essence of God, which is unknowable, and far beyond our comprehension. But, it is possible to share in the energies of the Godhead, which can transform us into glory.

Here's an analogy. Lets say I spend all day outside in the sun, and manage to become sunburned. I have not become the sun, but I have absorbed the energy of the sun, and it has changed me, in a painful way.

Theosis also contemplates a change, from being in the energies of God. Remember the Biblical story about Moses, and how after he visited with God on top of Mt. Sinai, his face was so bright that no one could look at him, and he had to veil his face? Orthodoxy is rife with that kind of thing. There are many stories about my own name saint, St. Seraphim, and how he would become so bright and luminous that no one could look him in the face. Similarly, the bodies of many saints are incorrupt -- that is, they don't decay after death, but remain soft and pliable, just as in life.

These changes come from basking, as it were, in the energies of God. Those energies change our souls as surely as the bright sun changes our bodies. So think of theosis not as becoming God in the Mormon, neo-platonic sense. Think of it as becoming like unto God, by passing from glory to glory.

Hope that helps,

James

 

[Christy4Christ]

This thread is so great because just a week ago I was freaking out when I read my Cathecism (Catholic) because we have this same teaching and this is exactly how it was explained to me.

 

[Suzannah]

Dear Sarah,

I think this freaks everyone out at first. Me too until I understood it. With all the false religions out there, its no wonder, because so many of them teach this heresy that men can become "gods" as in separate, individual gods . Theosis does not teach this. Here's my favorite explanation of this from St. Gregory of Palamas, incorporating the words of St. Maximos. The second paragraph is perfect, in my opinion.:


St. Gregory Palamas:
The Philokalia: Vol. 4, The Declaration of the Holy Mountain



2. If anyone declares that perfect union with God is accomplished simply in an imitative and relative fashion, without the deifying grace of the Spirit and merely in the manner of persons who share the same disposition and who love one another, and that the deifying grace of God is a state of our intellectual nature acquired by imitation alone, but is not a supernatural illumination and an ineffable and divine energy beheld invisibly and conceived inconceivably by those privileged to participate in it, then he must know that he has fallen unawares into the delusion of the Messalians. For if deification is accomplished according to a capacity inherent in human nature and if it is encompassed within the bounds of nature, then of necessity the person deified is by nature God. Whoever thinks like this should not attempt therefore to foist his own delusion upon those who stand on secure ground and to impose a defiled creed upon those whose faith undefiled; rather should lay aside his presumption and learn from persons of experience or from their disciples that the grace of deification is entirely unconditional and there is no faculty whatever in nature capable of achieving it since, if there were, this grace would no longer be grace but merely the manifestation of the operation of a natural capacity. Nor if deification were in accord with a natural capacity would there be anything miraculous in it; for then deification would truly be the work of nature, not the gift of God, and a man would be able to b e and to be called a God by nature in the full sense of the words. For the natural capacity of every being is nothing other than the undeviating and natural disposition for active accomplishment. It is indeed incomprehensible how deification can raise the person deified outside or beyond himself if it is encompassed with the bounds of nature.

The grace of deification is therefore above nature, virtue and knowledge and according to St. Maximos, all such things infinitely fall short of it. For all the virtue we can attain and such imitation of God as lies in our power does no more than fit us for UNION with the Deity but it is through grace that this ineffable union is actually accomplished Through grace God in His entirety penetrates the saints in their entirety and the saints in their entirety penetrate God entirely exchanging the whole of Him for themselves and acquiring HIM ALONE as the reward of their ascent towards Him for He embraces them as the soul embraces the body, enabling them to be in HIM as His own members.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

If the point is for each of us to develop into gods isn't that Neoplatonism?

Hi Sarah,

After 20+ years of being a hard core fundamentalist Baptist, when I began exploring ancient Christianity, my first exposure to this idea FREAKED me out - to say the least!! I have a few suggestions/thoughts...

1 - Get "The Orthodox Way", by Bishop Ware. Look up "deification" and "theosis" in the index and read those passages. His explanations are very consise and make a lot of sense. I believe they are what helped me more than anything.

2 - This is not "becoming gods" the way Mormons think we will become gods or something - God forbid! Rather, it's us returning to our perfect Adamic state - when we were truly "sons of God" in every way - it's the return to what we were meant to be all along, before sin came along and screwed everything up, cutting us off from that perfect communion with God.

3 - Are we not preparing for the ultimate "wedding feast"? On earth, two become one flesh, in true union - but they NEVER take on the other's nature. So it is with this - we are seeking true union with God - to be so united to Him, to be such His true Sons that we might be called "Little gods" - but we can never and will never take on His Nature. He will always be God, and we will always be creature. But in preparing for the "marriage feast of the Lamb" - we strive to please our Groom, to become as much like Him as we can, for He is our ultimate ideal!

During my "initial freak-out" a few years ago (I truly do appreciate what a foreign concept this can be to Protestant minds!!!!!), my friend Steve came to my rescue - I'm going to copy and paste some of what he said to me - keep in mind this was written for me, several years ago, so some of it may not apply to exactly where you are on understanding this all.... but hopefully it will help....

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I think a great part of the problem has to do with certain words that tend to "push buttons". Many times I have said to Protestants that we are to become more Christlike. Never a wince! Is Christ God? Well, yes! Then... another way to say that is we are to become more Godlike. "Huh????"There go the buttons!!

I've dug up a few definitions of "theosis" in the Orthodox sense. (This is in the context of other digging.. fuller references will be forthcoming, God willing.) At least, some of these folks have translated the traditional concepts into 20th century English... we'll have to update it to 21st century ourselves...
From Jason Barker:
[font=Garamond, Times, Serif]To explain the process in a simple (perhaps overly simplistic) way, theosis involves the transposition of the Christian from a state of mortal corruption to a state of immortal incorruption.[/font]
Immortal? No problem for Protestants... eternal life has never been a dispute. Incorruption? Cleansed of sin... is this a problem??

Ok, let's get a bit deeper....
Orthodox theologian Christoforos Stavropoulos
[font=Garamond, Times, Serif]This is the purpose of life: that we be participants, sharers in the nature of God and in the life of Christ, communicants of divine grace and energy - to become just like God, true gods…[Theosis] means the elevation of the human being to the divine sphere, to the atmosphere of God. It means the union of the human with the divine…However, this union is not absolute. It is relative, for it is not the transformation of our essence. Rather, it is natural, ethical, and in accordance with grace. It is the union of the whole person with God.[/font]

P. E. Hughes (a Western Christian):
[font=Garamond, Times, Serif][Athanasius’ presentation of theosis is]the reintegration of the divine image of man’s creation through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit conforming the redeemed into the likeness of Christ, and also of the believer’s transition from mortality to immortality so that he is enabled to participate in the eternal bliss and glory of the kingdom of God.[/font]
Again we see... immortality, sactification by the Holy Spirit, become Christlike...

Fr. John Romanides (who, if I'm not mistaken, has taught seminary at both St. Vladimir's in the USA and in Thessoloniki, Greece.)
[font=Garamond, Times, Serif]The primary purpose of faith in and theology and dogma about Christ and His relation to the Father and the Holy Spirit is to lead humanity: [/font]
1) to the purification and illumination of the heart, i.e. the therapy of the center of human personality, and
2) to glorification (theosis), which is the perfection of personhood. In the vision of the uncreated glory and rule (vasileia) of Christ in and among His saints, the members of His Body, the Church. Faith, prayer, theology, and dogma are the therapeutical methods and signposts on the road of illumination to perfection which, when reached, abolishes faith, prayer, theology, and dogma, since the final goal of these is their abolishment in glorification and selfess love (1 Cor. 13, 8, 10).

(for reference... here's 1 Cor 13:8-10 from NKJV.. [font=Garamond, Times, Serif]Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away[/font])

Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos
[font=Garamond, Times, Serif]The primary work of the Church is to lead man to theosis, to communion and union with God. Given this, in a sense we can say that the work of the Church is to "produce relics".
[/font]
[font=Garamond, Times, Serif]Thus, Orthodox spirituality is the experience of life in Christ, the atmosphere of the new man, regenerated by the grace of God. It is not an abstract, emotional and psychological state of being. It is man's union with God.[/font]
Is "communion and union with God" that far from most Protestant concepts?

It seems to me that the thing which is most different is the idea that it's a journey. When I was a Protestant... well, I'm now a Christian and Bing-Bang-Bong... "I'm there! I've got it all!! What I have now is union with God!!" The Orthodox Church says, "Oh no! There's far more to do... you've only started!"

Hmmm... maybe I should tweak that old Carpenter's song, "We've Only Just Begun" to be sung at parties after baptisms.... "

Finally, if it makes you feel better... a couple more scriptures.... (NKJV)
Psalm 82:6 -- [font=Garamond, Times, Serif]I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High[/font]

John 10:33-36 (emphasis mine) -- [font=Garamond, Times, Serif]The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, "I said, "You are gods"'? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming,' because I said, "I am the Son of God'?[/font]

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Stever also reminded me that I am a huge CS Lewis fan - here is an excerpt from "Mere Christianity"....

[font=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]God looks at you as if you were a little Christ: Christ stands beside you to turn you into one. I daresay this idea of a divine make-believe sounds rather strange at first. But, is it so strange really? Is that not how the higher thing always raises the lower? A mother teaches her baby to talk by talking to it as if it understood long before it really does. We treat our dogs as if they were ‘almost human’: that is why they really become ‘almost human’ in the end.[/font]

Think about it.....

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These exchanges all took place on an MSN board that was created especially for those inquiring into Orthodox Christianity. That board still exists, in fact I help run it now. If any inquirer would like an invitation to this board, please drop me a private note and I'll invite you. Not that this board doesn't do a fantastic job of helping inquirers!!! Just might be one more outlet for exploration....

One more thought...related to getting ready for the marriage feast of the Lamb... another woman I know wrote this "parable" for someone else (on the above mentioned board) who was struggling with the whole notion of theosis.

Chris Gosh, meets "Gertrude", and after their eyes meet across a crowded room and he has asked her to be his betrothed......off he goes to make the necessary preparations under his fathers watchfull eye...........

Now lets look at Gertrude, and her time spent betrothed to the "beloved". She spends her time anxiously awaiting news, or a glimps, or a word, or a note from Chris.

During this time she "desires" to become more like him, and therefore more pleasing to him. She tries to bring herself in line with what she knows is important, and valuable to him. She wants to learn more about him, how he is and how he plans their life together to be.

Side bar..........He is known by two names. Both names when used, are refering to him. Chris.....is him!!!....Gosh.....is him!!! Sooooo, if Gertrude desires to be more "Chris like", or more "Gosh like"....it means exactly the same thing!!!

Here is the important question........If Gertrude tries really, really, really, really, really, hard......will she ever become him?????........The answer is NO!!!! The best that she may ever do.....is to become more pleasing to him!!!

The other little thing that will happen in the process might go something like this......The Gertrude in her would become less......and as Chris becomes central to her......the Chris like qualities in her will become more.....but alas......she will become more "Chris like", and more "Gosh like"......but she will never be him!!!...........and not only that........You asked if it was possible for her to become "Gosh"!!! Again, alas.........The answer is NO!!!
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I have more "stuff" in the archives of this Orthodox inquiry board that I would be glad to put over here, if it would help. God bless you on your journeys, all of you who are asking here, and please keep those questions coming!!!!

All my love in Christ,

Kat

 

[Christianseeker]

This is really amazing. The bible verse Emil pointed out says "In this way He has given us his promises, great beyond all price, so that through them you may escape the corruption with which lust has infected the world, and may come to share in the very being of God." (2Peter 1:4 Revised English Version) I don't want to think of myself as someone who requires scriptural proofs, but still it is reassuring.

Kat's friend has a good point that talking about becoming Christlike is a less threatening way to put it. One thing I didn't get before that comes out in the material by Father Anthony M Coniaris that Oblio linked to (wonderful link, thank you!) is that this idea of theosis isn't in *addition* to salvation, it *is* salvation, but it is a kind of ongoing process that we participate in, if I am understanding this right.

Thank you, James, for the sunburn analogy. Father Coniaris says that God's energies, as opposed to his unknowable essence, are love, peace, self control, gentleness, etc. so I guess these are the sun rays that irradiate us and change us, making us more gentle, loving, more Christlike, and this is theosis. It really isn't that different from the Protestant idea of becoming Christlike. (Except in Protestantism this is more separate from the idea of salvation, I think)

Thank you all so much for answering, I feel better about it now. Some aspects of this push my "works based salvation" button a bit so I think I will go into the debate forum and read the debate there on this issue. I am wondering though, if the idea that saying salvation cannot involve any participation from us or else Christ's death on the cross is insufficient (this is what some Protestants will say, I think) is another one of those ideas that nobody had before the reformation.


------------------------------------------------
--Sarah

Note on my faith icon: I'm using the "non denominational" one because I have not yet found a denomination or church that I feel comfortable in after my experience with the Episcopal Church. I am reading a lot and exploring the Catholic and Orthodox traditions as well as Protestant churches. I don't want to mislead anyone about what my perspective is.

 

[Suzannah]

Thank you all so much for answering, I feel better about it now. Some aspects of this push my "works based salvation" button a bit so I think I will go into the debate forum and read the debate there on this issue. I am wondering though, if the idea that saying salvation cannot involve any participation from us or else Christ's death on the cross is insufficient (this is what some Protestants will say, I think) is another one of those ideas that nobody had before the reformation.

That's exactly what's wrong with it. It means that no one was "saved" before the Reformation either....

Go get 'em in that debate!
Stick to your guns, show no weakness...they smell fear!!! LOL

Love,
Suzannah

 

[Christianseeker]

[/b]

That's exactly what's wrong with it. It means that no one was "saved" before the Reformation either....

Go get 'em in that debate!
Stick to your guns, show no weakness...they smell fear!!! LOL

Love,
Suzannah

LOL! Thanks but I was just going to *read* the debate. Reading ideas in books from diffferent perspectives is great but somehow ideas sink in more when they are part of a conversation... or something like that.

--Sarah

 

[Polycarp1]

This thread has been an eye-opener for me, and I expect to be coming back to reread it and ask some questions.

But a dim and vague concept that it's taught elsewhere across Christendom under other names moved me to start a thread over in the Soteriology area. I linked to this thread over there, but I'd welcome my Orthodox brothers and sisters to share their insights into how theosis is similar to, and different than, the other concepts I address there.

 

[Photini]

"Repentance is required of everyone who becomes a member of the Church. And thereafter, maturity of repentance is inevitably revealed as transfiguration; an involuntary change coming from without, and a spontaneous testimony to the fact that God saves the man who approaches Him.

Theologians are saints who 'undergo the way of negation.' The saints are theologians who 'undergo deification,' and they open up the way to untaught knowledge; they pour out the grace of the Holy Spirit....

In the Church all work together, all concelebrate. Everyone helps each other, enriching each other's experience and strengthening each other's hope: we have 'faith working through love' (Gal 5:6). If the Orthodox theologian gives guidance to the believer, then equally the believer, fighting his good fight in the Church, directs and lights the way for theological knowledge.

Faith is not a matter of mere understanding, so it is not cultivated and dos not grow simply through investigation or through study. Faith, as trust in God and abandonment of oneself to Him, is closely related to love, which is God Himself. When you love, when you offer as much as you can to others, to your brother--to Christ--and end up by offering your very self to God, then you know Him: you believe. Your faith increases. You are flooded with it, with its strange power which raises up lives. Then you do not simply feel that there are no doubts in your mind about the Orthodox faith. You do not simply have an intellectual calm. You feel that your whole being embraces an inexpressible exultation and blessing which is a spring of incorruption. A heavenly restfulness reaches into your innermost parts. You are flooded with inexhaustible longing to sing praises and give thanks to God who is love, all-wise, all-powerful, eternal, inscrutable; to sing praises to God who 'in the multitude of His mercy' has brought all things into being--and has breathed into man the breath of His life. You know God through faith, not intellectually, but existentially and with the whole of your physical being. You perceive that the innermost structure of your being is that of God. That is to say, you see that you are totally in the image of the Creator. You do not just believe; you find Him within you, not like an idol produced by the logic of the present age, according to the criteria which pass away, but as an image conceived and contemplated totally within the sacrifice of love: 'No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and His love is perfected in us' (1 John 4:12). In the words of St Isaac the Syrian, 'When we reach love, we have reached God; our road is ended, and we have crossed to the island which is beyond the world, where is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

--From Hymn of Entry, by Archimandrite Vasileios, SVS Press

 

[Benedicta00]

Catholics also have pretty much the same doctrine of thosis. It is God sharing his divine life with you and you partaking in the divine nature through a sacramental life. It is no longer you that lives but Christ living in you, You must decrease, He must increase.