Question about Evolution and Heaven ~~~PLEASE ANSWER!!!~~~

[ChristianRocker33]

My Dad believes that God is real, and that Jesus is savior, but he also believes that Evolution is real. He thinks that God created organisms that we Evolved into. I Don't believe this, but if he accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior, even though he believes in Evolution, would he go to Heaven? Feel free to debate your decisions, I am going to read and determine what the most logical answer is to this question based on your beliefs.

Thank You Very Much.

 

[Bulldog]

Of course. We theistic evolutionists are Christians just like everybody else. I have yet t see a verse that would show we can't be saved......

 

[Biarien]

There are people that will tell you that if you believe God created through evolution, you don't believe in God at all, or at least not the "Christian God."

I personally find that to be pretty ridiculous.

I see absolutely no reason a belief in evolution is incompatible with the Christian faith.

 

[Curt]

Evolution is just plain not Biblical, nor can it be. God created everything in 6 day's and then He rested from all His works. He tell us that we are to likewise do all our work for survival in 6 day's and rest with Him on the 7th day.

Prov 3:5-8 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART, LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING, BE NOT WISE IN YOUR OWN EYES
.
II Tim 3:16-17 ALL SCRIPTURE BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND PROFITABLE, THAT THE MAN OF GOD BE PERFECT

2 Pet 1:20 NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION

2 Sam 14:14 NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON

Job 37:24 HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.

John 17:22-23 BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE

James 1:22-25 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD, AND NO HEARERS ONLY

Josh 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
(KJV)

 

[Bulldog]

Curt-do you believe that theistic evolutionists can be saved?

 

[Breetai]

I believe that they are. John 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 clearly states this.

I do not believe that we evolved over millions of years. This is because that death entered the world through the sin of Adam. Adam was literally created by God about 6,000 years ago. Sure, the '7 days' could be taken as 7 figuative days, but even if those 7 days were actually millions of years there could have been no death. I see ne reason why God couldn't and didn't create everything in 6 literal days. Of course animals can evolve, at least certain components of them can. Different species can inter-breed sometimes to create hybrid species. Creatures can evolve to adapt to their environment to a certain point. Darwin was a smart guy. Even Linne(the Taxonomic Hierarchy guy; the 7 classifications) proposed an evolution of the species of some sort.

 

[Curt]

Curt-do you believe that theistic evolutionists can be saved?

Depends on whether or not they have led anyone into believing in a false doctrine that takes them away from believing God's truth, and the same for themselves. Anything that exalts itself above What God has written in His engrafted word will take them out of the salvation process. God exalts His Word higher than Himself. So it will depend on them realizing whatever error they have committed, and then repenting of that error. God created all things in 6 Days, and rested on the 7th, and He told us to do all our works of survival in 6 days, and rest on the 7th. This is part of that engrafted word that He exalts higher than Himself. So anyone who tries to change His Word is in danger of hell fire.

 

[Biarien]

There are people that will tell you that if you believe God created through evolution, you don't believe in God at all, or at least not the "Christian God."

Curt is not saying this in these words, but he seems to be proving my point.

 

[Bulldog]

Depends on whether or not they have led anyone into believing in a false doctrine that takes them away from believing God's truth, and the same for themselves. Anything that exalts itself above What God has written in His engrafted word will take them out of the salvation process. God exalts His Word higher than Himself. So it will depend on them realizing whatever error they have committed, and then repenting of that error. God created all things in 6 Days, and rested on the 7th, and He told us to do all our works of survival in 6 days, and rest on the 7th. This is part of that engrafted word that He exalts higher than Himself. So anyone who tries to change His Word is in danger of hell fire.

Nobody is changing anyof the Wor of God, only interpreting it differently.

 

[Lotar]

All I can say is if some day undeniable proof comes out that Evolution is correct, there are going to be a lot of people falling away from the fundamentalist churches.

A person can believe in theistic evolution and be saved. I never read anywhere in the Bible where it says that those who do not interprete Genesis litterally go to hell. I don't see a problem with people believing this, as long as they don't think they can throw out the message of the story.

 

[stray bullet]

I'm sorry, but I have trouble taking something literally that says God rested for a day. I think the resting on the seventh day should be a big indicator that it is an example for you to follow, not believe how the Earth was literally created.

 

[Curt]

Nobody is changing anyof the Wor of God, only interpreting it differently.

Prov 3:5-8 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART, LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING, BE NOT WISE IN YOUR OWN EYES

2 Pet 1:20 NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION

II Tim 3:16-17 ALL SCRIPTURE BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND PROFITABLE, THAT THE MAN OF GOD BE PERFECT

2 Sam 14:14 NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON

Job 37:24 HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.

John 17:22-23 BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE

James 1:22-25 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD, AND NOT HEARERS ONLY

Josh 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
(KJV)

Quote:
I'm sorry, but I have trouble taking something literally that says God rested for a day. I think the resting on the seventh day should be a big indicator that it is an example for you to follow, not believe how the Earth was literally created.

If you have trouble taking literally all the references in The Scriptures that show 6 days of work and 1 of rest, you indeed have trouble. God holds His engrated word higher than Himself.

 

[A-Bomb]

It doesn't matter if you believe our universe was created in a literal seven days or a symbolic seven days. What does matter is that you believe it was, indeed, created and is the work of the Living God. What does matter is that you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, and the Holy Spirit. What does matter is that you have accepted Him as your Lord and Ruler, and that you have agreed to follow Him. When we get caught up in these debates within the Christian community over the exact origins of existence, it only causes division and it causes us to lose sight of the important thing,which is that our Universe is the work of God, no matter how it was done. Also, these debates often turn people off to Christianity completely. Hours? Years? It is trivial. If your father has, indeed, accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior then, yes, indeed, your father will be in Heaven.

 

[Biarien]

A-Bomb, I agree, it is trivial. The problem is that some people will say that certain interpretations make someone 'unsaved' or not a 'true Christian' or that the person is 'calling God a liar' or similar things. I would think it's these kind of responses that led the original poster to ask this question in the first place.

 

[A-Bomb]

And that is what I am responding to. Do you not understand? I am telling her that our differences do not matter. That is the trivial part.

 

[Breetai]

Does anyone remember Copernicus or Galileo?

 

[daveleau]

I believe theistic evolutionists can be saved, but I do not see how one can refute any part of the Bible and still believe the otehr parts. If one part is flawed (Creation), then aren't there serious possibilities that the others parts (Salvation, Jesus' deity, or any other item in the Bible) are flawed or untrue as well?

There are sever good books on the topic, and after taking an evolution class in college, I had to resolve this issue within myself before being able to advance on my Walk.

Martin DeHaan, MD has a great book called Genesis and Evolution, that explains a lot. It is a fairly short and eaisly read book that is a good starting point.

B.B. Warfield has done extensive writing through short essays that can be found in Evolution, Science and Scripture.

Walter Pember wrote a classic called Earth's Earliest Ages that is a more graduate level book on the subject.

Disclaimer: All of these writers support the Gap Theory to some extent. It was the prevelant idea during the time when Geological and evolutionary sciences became antagonistic to Scripture. Do some research on Google about this theory and you will find many pro's and con's about the theory. Let God guide you to your conclusions.

Most of all pray for your father and for all those that doubt Creation. Creation and Science can surely be resolved, but we must think of things in light of Scripture and also we must look to Jesus' example to see if we think the theory we come up with fits with what we know of God. I see nothing that leads me to believe that God would state one thing in Scripture and do another. That is why the Gap Theory is so appealing to me, a scientist ...(or former scientist...I am no longer in that field)

God bless,
Dave

 

[Biarien]

I believe theistic evolutionists can be saved, but I do not see how one can refute any part of the Bible and still believe the otehr parts. If one part is flawed (Creation), then aren't there serious possibilities that the others parts (Salvation, Jesus' deity, or any other item in the Bible) are flawed or untrue as well?

Theistic evolutions do not 'refute' the Bible. They take it as a metaphorical truth. The key thing here is that it is still truth.

 

[daveleau]

Are you talking macro or micro evolution? The Bible says that each animal gives birth to its own like. Hence, a fish could not become a land-based animal or a bird. So to believe in Macro evolution refutes the Bible. Micro evolution, or natural selection, is something we have actually seen occur. (Ie Darwin's finches and the easier passage of desirable traits such as the prettiest peacock gets the girl...)

Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so if you'd like to talk more I am open to any other form of communication.

 

[Biarien]

Are you talking macro or micro evolution? The Bible says that each animal gives birth to its own like. Hence, a fish could not become a land-based animal or a bird. So to believe in Macro evolution refutes the Bible. Micro evolution, or natural selection, is something we have actually seen occur. (Ie Darwin's finches and the easier passage of desirable traits such as the prettiest peacock gets the girl...)

I don't want to hijack this thread, so if you'd like to talk more I am open to any other form of communication.

What you're not understanding is that a metaphorical truth does not have to be as specific as you seem to be making it. Metaphors can be broad and general and still convey certain truths, or be very specific and convey other or more truths.

The key point is that you said TEs 'refute' the Bible (beleive it is 'flawed' or 'wrong') when that is not true. I was correcting that, because it is insulting to TEs to say they believe God's word to be flawed when all they are doing is interpreting it in a different sense.

You must remember that it is the truth of the interpretation that is in question, not the truth of God's word.