Question about Anglican services

[bellantara]

Hi! I have been looking for a new church home for some time and I'm planning to attend my first Anglican service this Sunday. What can I expect the service to be like? It's a small, house-based church, so I'm thinking it's not going to be "pull out all the stops" grand, but I've mostly been to Baptist churches my whole life, with an occasional visit to a Methodist or Lutheran church. Any information is greatly appreciated!

 

[gtsecc]

You will experience a liturgy that transcends time, and geography, and denominations. Basically, the divine liturgy of John Chrysostom. Christians have used this basic form of worship for as long as we can tell - at least back to the 4th century. It is difficult to trace it back much further since Christianity was illegal before then, so information is not so clear.


The rough format is even older than Christianity.

For example, Oblation bearers will carry the wine and bread to the priest standing at the altar during part of the service called the offertory. In pre-Christian times, they would be carrying a prepared animal carcass to the priest at the altar.

 

[AngloWesleyan]

If it is a small house church, then I assume it is a new church plant. But there are several Anglican missionary agencies planting churches throughout the U.S. The type of service to expect will depend largely on which group this house church is affiliated with or hopes to be affiliated with. Is it the Anglican Mission in America, Anglican Communion Network, Traditional Anglican Communion, or some other group?

 

[bellantara]

If it is a small house church, then I assume it is a new church plant. But there are several Anglican missionary agencies planting churches throughout the U.S. The type of service to expect will depend largely on which group this house church is affiliated with or hopes to be affiliated with. Is it the Anglican Mission in America, Anglican Communion Network, Traditional Anglican Communion, or some other group?

Oh geez, I don't know. I don't think its new; I've lived here for ten years and it's always been here. It's not in someone's home, just in a house.

 

[AngloWesleyan]

Sounds like a TAC church, in which case gtsecc's description is probably pretty accurate.

 

[gtsecc]

You will hear these readings:
June18, Proper 6:
Psalm 92 or 92:1-4,11-14;
Ezekiel 31:1-6,10-14; 2 Corinthians 5:1-10; Mark 4:26-34

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

You will experience a liturgy that transcends time, and geography, and denominations. Basically, the divine liturgy of John Chrysostom.

Anglicans use the same Liturgy as Orthodox?

 

[gtsecc]

Anglicans use the same Liturgy as Orthodox?

Doesn't everyone?

Sometimes we use a shortened Baisal the Great or the Gregory the Great.

Here is the great Thanksgiving - surely you recognize it:

The Lord be with you.
People And with thy spirit.
Celebrant Lift up your hearts.
People We lift them up unto the Lord.
Celebrant Let us give thanks unto our Lord God.
People It is meet and right so to do.

Then, facing the Holy Table, the Celebrant proceeds

It is very meet, right, and our bounden duty, that we should
at all times, and in all places, give thanks unto thee, O Lord,
holy Father, almighty, everlasting God.
Suffrages A are the same as your litanies.

I can't take apart both liturgies and credit each piece back to it origin, but I think it is very clear that they are very similar: Psalm, Old Testament, Epistle, Gospel, Homily, Eucharist, dismissal. And, of course the Eucharistic canon, anaphoras are the same. I mean, you can't just make up your own way of worshiping can you?

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Doesn't everyone?

Sometimes we use a shortened Baisal the Great or the Gregory the Great.

Here is the great Thanksgiving - surely you recognize it:

The Lord be with you.
People And with thy spirit.
Celebrant Lift up your hearts.
People We lift them up unto the Lord.
Celebrant Let us give thanks unto our Lord God.
People It is meet and right so to do.

Then, facing the Holy Table, the Celebrant proceeds

It is very meet, right, and our bounden duty, that we should
at all times, and in all places, give thanks unto thee, O Lord,
holy Father, almighty, everlasting God.
Suffrages A are the same as your litanies.

I can't take apart both liturgies and credit each piece back to it origin, but I think it is very clear that they are very similar: Psalm, Old Testament, Epistle, Gospel, Homily, Eucharist, dismissal. And, of course the Eucharistic canon, anaphoras are the same. I mean, you can't just make up your own way of worshiping can you?

I guess my specific point is that in the EO we use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. While all liturgies in the EO, RC, and Anglican faiths have similarities, to my knowledge it was only the EO and the Eastern Rite Catholics that used the specific Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

I could be wrong...

 

[Torah613]

Doesn't everyone?

Sometimes we use a shortened Baisal the Great or the Gregory the Great.

Here is the great Thanksgiving - surely you recognize it:

The Lord be with you.
People And with thy spirit.
Celebrant Lift up your hearts.
People We lift them up unto the Lord.
Celebrant Let us give thanks unto our Lord God.
People It is meet and right so to do.

Then, facing the Holy Table, the Celebrant proceeds

It is very meet, right, and our bounden duty, that we should
at all times, and in all places, give thanks unto thee, O Lord,
holy Father, almighty, everlasting God.
Suffrages A are the same as your litanies.

I can't take apart both liturgies and credit each piece back to it origin, but I think it is very clear that they are very similar: Psalm, Old Testament, Epistle, Gospel, Homily, Eucharist, dismissal. And, of course the Eucharistic canon, anaphoras are the same. I mean, you can't just make up your own way of worshiping can you?

trust me--there are enourmous differences. Yes there is considerable pieces that come from the East, but the general structure of hte Anglican Liturgy actually comes from the western tradition (although the structure of the liturgy in most basic terms does cross over east/west divisions).

However in the Byzantine Liturgy as one key example there is no Old Testement Reading. There is no Prokeimenon in the Anglican Liturgy. Where's the Antidiron at my local Anglican Church?

As I said there are similarities because the Liturgy of hte West and the Liturgy of the East follows the same basic pattern. Also the Non-Jurors, tractarians, and John Mason Neale were instrumental in snipping bits of the Liturgy of Basil the Great and John the GoldenTounged and putting them in Anglican services where they were appropriately fitting.

BTW when was the last time you heard "Grace shining from your lips like a beacon hast enlightened the whole world oh John the Goldentounged......" in an Anglican Church?

Joe Zollars

 

[Torah613]

I guess my specific point is that in the EO we use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. While all liturgies in the EO, RC, and Anglican faiths have similarities, to my knowledge it was only the EO and the Eastern Rite Catholics that used the specific Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

I could be wrong...

no you are correct.

Joe Zollars

 

[gtsecc]

There is no Prokeimenon in the Anglican Liturgy. Where's the Antidiron at my local Anglican Church?
Joe Zollars

The introit, antiphon, and/or collect are the same aren't they? If we called one of them a prokeimenon instead right?

 

[Torah613]

umm no.

There are a few phrases here and there that have been borrowed by the crafters of the prayerbook. Such liturgical borrowing is common throughout liturgical history. In fact it was particularly common under Charlamagne--but that is a thread for another time.

If you look at the liturgies side by side in their entirety, not to mention teh rubrics and canons guiding teh celebration of each liturgy, you will notice they are two different liturgies from two different liturgical traditions.

I'm sorry GTsecc but the elements of the liturgy you mentioned betray its western heritage.

Until next time, Slava Iessu Christou!

Joe Zollars

PS: If you want to debate the Eastern Liturgy perhaps that is best done over in TAW or after you've learned a bit more Old Church Slavonic? jk on the latter.

 

[gtsecc]

umm no.
I'm sorry GTsecc but the elements of the liturgy you mentioned betray its western heritage.

...
PS: If you want to debate the Eastern Liturgy perhaps that is best done over in TAW or after you've learned a bit more Old Church Slavonic? jk on the latter.

Heck, I asked over there - I still can't tell you the differnce between a prokeminon, and our antiphon. Seems like they all serve the same purpose.

 

[Torah613]

Yeah. And the Canon of St. Gregory's mass and of St. John's Liturgy have similar purpose too. Your point?

The Liturgies have similar structure--but they are way different. And perhaps you could give an example of the antiphon you are talking about? are you talking about the Psalm read in Church? if so it is way off the mark from a Prokemion--even with the responsorials before and after. The Psalter part of the Eastern Liturgy is recited in third hour/Orthros immediately before the Liturgy.

Sorry, but having sung in the choir at an EO Church, and having the texts of the Liturgy of our Father among the Saints John Chrysostom and the Liturgy of the BCP before me--they are not the same. I asked a retired priest about this this morning, just in case I am mistaken. He has a doctorate in liturgical studies and went to Nashtoah. Even he said it is a western liturgy, which is apropriate since it is a western Church. It is based off the Sarum and Gregorian liturgies with a bit of Gallican thrown in. There are elements borrowed from the Eastern Church here and there--hymns in the hymnal, the Epiclesis, Eucharistic Prayer D (from St. Basil's Liturgy), and Prayers of hte People Form V (p. 389 in the American 79 BCP) to name a few--but they are borrowed elements put into the context of a western Liturgy.

Joe Zollars

Joe Zollars

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Hi! I have been looking for a new church home for some time and I'm planning to attend my first Anglican service this Sunday. What can I expect the service to be like? It's a small, house-based church, so I'm thinking it's not going to be "pull out all the stops" grand, but I've mostly been to Baptist churches my whole life, with an occasional visit to a Methodist or Lutheran church. Any information is greatly appreciated!

Welcome to STR!

Did you make it to the Anglican service? If so, what did you think of it?

The most noticeable thing about Anglican worship to someone from another tradition is that it is very participatory. This means that there is lots for the congregation to get involved in rather than just sitting and listening. In addition to singing, that most church have, we tend to pray aloud and together at certain points in the service.

Like any service, Anglican services are modelled on the early church, with praise, prayer, the word, fellowship etc.

We have come together as a family of God, in our Father's presense, to offer him praise and thanksgiving, to hear and receive his holy word, to bring before him the needs of the world, to ask forgiveness of our sins, and to seek his grace, that through his son, Jesus Christ, we may give ourselves to his service.

 

[bellantara]

I did make it to the service, and I liked it! Too often in church I sit and my mind wanders to any number of things, but not yesterday. It was the most wonderful service I've been to. I may have a new church home and a new faith.

 

[karen freeinchristman]

I did make it to the service, and I liked it! Too often in church I sit and my mind wanders to any number of things, but not yesterday. It was the most wonderful service I've been to. I may have a new church home and a new faith.

That is so great to hear, bellantara! Thanks for letting us know!

 

[Timothy]

We have come together as a family of God, in our Father's presense

That should be 'the family of God' and you won't believe how mad I am that that isn't the authorised introduction to MP and EP in Common Worship. I love those words.

Timothy

 

[Torah613]

Ballantrina:

Glad to hear you liked it! That was my reaction as well when I attended the more structured forms of worship for the first time as well. The benefit of the Anglican Church is you get the best of both worlds--structure and beauty in Liturgy, as well as freedom of religious expression found in more protestant style churches.

Joe Zollars