Question about Allah

[Tigg]

I don't think the CCC teaches you to bow down to the Muslim understanding of God, so I don't know why you would feel the need to say what you did. Your profession of faith in the Nicene Creed is good enough for me.

Ahhh, if the Muslim god is the same God we worship, then there would be no reason or problem not to bow down and worship. If there is a problem doing that, that means they are not the same.

 

[Tigg]

Hey steve bakr! I am glad you are a convert and a newer Catholic! A belated welcome. Your input as all newer converts usually are, keep us on our toes. A good thing.

 

[Rhamiel]

Ahhh, if the Muslim god is the same God we worship, then there would be no reason or problem not to bow down and worship. If there is a problem doing that, that means they are not the same.

we are called not to worship in a heretical manner
Monica has more information then I do on this, but I have not seen her on OBOB as much

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Do Muslims worship the same god as christians?
so what about pagans who worship a painted god made from brass and wood?
the god of islam was made up by Mohhamed, an idol made of words is now better then an idol made of wood?

The difference of Muslims with respect to other pagan religions is that they pray to the God of Abraham.

Is this so hard to understand that the have a mistaken image of God as well as Arrians did?

They are fundamentally arrians in doctrine, does that mean they may be saved?, well, according to Sacred Scripture, no, because they refuse to adore Jesus, to recognize him as The Lord and to be baptised and eat his body and recive the Holy Spirit.

However, Many muslims do not know the Sacred Scripture because the islamic governments forbids Bible distribution and Catholic missions, then many muslims are not guilty of been ignorant of the Gospel of the Lord. They may be judge according to the Law.


Muhamad was indoctrinated by arrians, that is the key point, yet arrians are anathema by the councils of the church.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

You've made some good points. It's not whether a religious group thinks that there is only one God and He created the world. But, it's everything else that follows through God's own prophecies. He spoke of what was to come--it happened and now we must believe that Jesus is God.

I had some friends who were Jehovah Witnesses and they believe that Jesus was Michael the Arch Angel. They don't believe in hell. They basically call God a liar because they deny much of what is written in the bible. They are not followers of the same God as the God of the Catholic Church. Their God does different things than the God we know from the bible. They say their God is the same God as ours, but how can it be? Their God is suddenly changing bible verses and basic Christian beliefs. That's not the God I follow.

We can not talk of the God of JW, the God of Muslims, the God of Jews, the God of Christians, as if there were many different gods, The is only ONE GOD, the problem is the understanding of God each group have, We Catholics are certain of Our Faith because of Our Historical Apostolicity in Doctrine, our faith is the faith of the Apostles, Our doctrines are the Doctrines of the Apostles, That is why we are the One , Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Said this, we can say that Muslims may follow or look for the same God of We catholics, but they don't do what God has stablished as the right way to follow him to go to him, The Lord Jesus is the Truth, The WAY and The Life, to follow Jesus is to OBEY him, To obey his commandments. To love Jesus is to do what he tell us to Do. Most of muslims are not guilty of having a mistaken image of God, many of them believe they follow the Will of God, but are ignorant of such will as far as they are ignorants of the Gospel of The Lord.

It URGED us to fight for religious freedom in Muslim countries, so the gospel can be preached freely so Muslims may know the truth.

 

[Rhamiel]

The difference of Muslims with respect to other pagan religions is that they pray to the God of Abraham.

Is this so hard to understand that the have a mistaken image of God as well as Arrians did?

They are fundamentally arrians in doctrine, does that mean they may be saved?, well, according to Sacred Scripture, no, because they refuse to adore Jesus, to recognize him as The Lord and to be baptised and eat his body and recive the Holy Spirit.

However, Many muslims do not know the Sacred Scripture because the islamic governments forbids Bible distribution and Catholic missions, then many muslims are not guilty of been ignorant of the Gospel of the Lord. They may be judge according to the Law.


Muhamad was indoctrinated by arrians, that is the key point, yet arrians are anathema by the councils of the church.

you do a very good job of explaining things

 

[Adam Warlock]

Since no one answered my question, I'll pose another one:
How about the golden calf? How is that any different, since it's supposed to be the same God who led them out of Egypt?

 

[Rhamiel]

Since no one answered my question, I'll pose another one:
How about the golden calf? How is that any different, since it's supposed to be the same God who led them out of Egypt?

I like where you are going with this
all religions contain elements of the Truth
but these scattering of truth are not salvific, but it is good if we can use what is right and true in heritical and pagan beliefs to lead people to the Truth, that is Jesus Christ and His Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that was created for the salvation of all mankind

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Since no one answered my question, I'll pose another one:
How about the golden calf? How is that any different, since it's supposed to be the same God who led them out of Egypt?

The Golden Calf is an Idol, it was created after God had anounced to Israel the commandment of not making Idols. The problem is that God had not given his Own image to men and men created a false image of God and even worst they called the calf to be the god.

However God Give himself an image in the Lord Jesus, that is the image of God. Since Jesus we can say that we have seen God and we have his image.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

I like where you are going with this
all religions contain elements of the Truth
but these scattering of truth are not salvific, but it is good if we can use what is right and true in heritical and pagan beliefs to lead people to the Truth, that is Jesus Christ and His Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that was created for the salvation of all mankind

Fully agree

 

[steve_bakr]

Hey steve bakr! I am glad you are a convert and a newer Catholic! A belated welcome. Your input as all newer converts usually are, keep us on our toes. A good thing.

Tigg, Thank you and God bless you. I am very happy to have embraced the Catholic faith.

May the Peace of the Lord be with you,
Steve

 

[Chrystal-J]

Most of muslims are not guilty of having a mistaken image of God, many of them believe they follow the Will of God, but are ignorant of such will as far as they are ignorants of the Gospel of The Lord.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood you before. If you are worshiping a mistaken image of God (as in my friend's case), then you are not worshiping the one true God. How is that any different than worshiping the Moon god or god of the wind? It's not whether one true God exists--He exists. It's who or what a group is worshiping. Whether it's through ignorance or outright rebellion, it's still going to lead to lack of salvation. (God has commanded that Jesus is Lord, so you either believe God and worship in that way or you don't.)
But, I agree that all must be lead to Christ, through the love of the Lord.

Like it says in John 4:
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

 

[ivebeenshown]

We acknowledge the truths in Islam. Nothing more. As far as I'm concerned he took the God of Abraham & gave Him a makeover. Add the fact that they do not even believe Jesus died on the cross & rose again.

Well if that is the case, we are to be pitied. Scripture says as much.

As far as I know, I don't have to believe anything other than recognizing the truths. When it veers off into crazy land & rejects Christ for who He is.... you lose me.

Call me a cafeteria catholic but there it is.

I don't think you are a 'cafeteria Catholic', from what you said in this post it seems like you agree that Muslims adore the God of Abraham, just that they have a severely mistaken understanding of Him.

 

[ivebeenshown]

I'm OK with acknowledging that Muslims do try to worship the God of the Bible.

I do get perturbed at what appears to be a requirement to believe that the God of the Bible and the God of the Koran are OBJECTIVELY the same entities. That would mean that the same God employed the same angel Gabriel (the same angel Gabriel that appeared to Mary?) to partake in additional revelation to Mohammad. Did the same God do this? Objectively speaking?

If it's an OPTION to believe that they are the same God, that is less of an issue.

Again, that the bible and the Koran posit different things about the same God of Abraham does not mean they posit different 'Gods of Abraham'.

There is no requirement to believe that the muslims are correct in all their beliefs, but we are required to hear and assent to Church teaching which says that muslims, together with us, adore the one God of Abraham -- however imperfectly that may be.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I wonder if Abraham agrees?

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Ok, I guess I misunderstood you before. If you are worshiping a mistaken image of God (as in my friend's case), then you are not worshiping the one true God. How is that any different than worshiping the Moon god or god of the wind? It's not whether one true God exists--He exists. It's who or what a group is worshiping. Whether it's through ignorance or outright rebellion, it's still going to lead to lack of salvation. (God has commanded that Jesus is Lord, so you either believe God and worship in that way or you don't.)
But, I agree that all must be lead to Christ, through the love of the Lord.

Like it says in John 4:
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

Go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church 847

 

[Chrystal-J]

Go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church 847

I've always counted on the bible for my belief system.

I consider myself a Christian first, a Catholic second (but, a very close 2nd).

Edit to add:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

^ But, this says through no fault of their own. Aren't people choosing the be JWs or whatever?

 

[ivebeenshown]

I've always counted on the bible for my belief system.

I consider myself a Christian first, a Catholic second (but, a very close 2nd).

I count on the bible too. I just don't assume that I know better than the Church when it comes to interpreting it.

I'm Catholic first and Christian first... they are synonymous.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I count on the bible too. I just don't assume that I know better than the Church when it comes to interpreting it.

I'm Catholic first and Christian first... they are synonymous.

I'm happy for you.

According to the above post, we don't have to follow the Pope to get to heaven anyway...
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

 

[Simon_Templar]

It really depends on what you mean by "the same" or rather, in which way do you mean the same.

For example, from a linguistic perspective, Allah and God are the same. The word Allah in Arabic means "the God" so when an Arabic speaker says Allah, he is just saying "God" as in "the God".

Also, from a historical perspective the God of Islam is the same as the God of Judaism and Christianity in the sense that Islam is technically an offshoot of Christianity. Islam was derived by exposure to Christianity and more specifically a rejection of certain crucial aspects of Christian theology. Essentially, in that regard, Islam is a Christian heresy.

However, if you mean "are they the same" theologically. Then the answer is no, absolutely not. God, as he is conceived of in orthodox Islamic theology is signficantly different than God as he is conceived of in Christian theology.

The difference centers on the doctrine of the Trinity, which is the central doctrine of Christianity and all orthodox Christian theology.

Because the God of Islam is by nature solitary, he is not capable of, nor does he desire relationship in the way that the God of the bible does. God's nature as family and God's nature as a God of relationship and a Love, is based upon the Trinity and without the Trinity none of those things are really possible for a monotheistic, unchanging God.

As a result, the love of God in Islam is fundamentally different than the love of God in Christianity. The God of Islam has a kind of compassion. Much like the benevolent feeling that a human may have for an animal, or pet. However, there is no concept of God truly inviting people into relationship, and especially not into family. In Islam, God has no family and such an idea is essentially blasphemous.

As a result they are not the same anymore than the Jesus of the Jehovah's witness or the Mormons is the same as the Jesus of orthodox Christianity.