Question about Allah

[eastcoast_bsc]

I count on the bible too. I just don't assume that I know better than the Church when it comes to interpreting it.

I'm Catholic first and Christian first... they are synonymous.

Look we all have minds and we have personal relationships with Christ Jesus. Man will always fail us, this we know. I follow Christ first and if I read something that goes against Holy scripture, I always adhere to the word of God.

I posted very clear and concise quotes from scripture and some from Christ himself. You refereed to them as a wall of quotes.

Jesus has stated:

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

“Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

This does not mean we are to have enmity toward Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses or any other religion, but we are to follow Christ first. We should be willing to share the gospel in love.

 

[Lady Bug]

I'm OK with acknowledging that Muslims do try to worship the God of the Bible.

I do get perturbed at what appears to be a requirement to believe that the God of the Bible and the God of the Koran are OBJECTIVELY the same entities. That would mean that the same God employed the same angel Gabriel (the same angel Gabriel that appeared to Mary?) to partake in additional revelation to Mohammad. Did the same God do this? Objectively speaking?

If it's an OPTION to believe that they are the same God, that is less of an issue.

Again, that the bible and the Koran posit different things about the same God of Abraham does not mean they posit different 'Gods of Abraham'.

There is no requirement to believe that the muslims are correct in all their beliefs, but we are required to hear and assent to Church teaching which says that muslims, together with us, adore the one God of Abraham -- however imperfectly that may be.

I don't think my question was actually answered

 

[steve_bakr]

It really depends on what you mean by "the same" or rather, in which way do you mean the same.

For example, from a linguistic perspective, Allah and God are the same. The word Allah in Arabic means "the God" so when an Arabic speaker says Allah, he is just saying "God" as in "the God".

Also, from a historical perspective the God of Islam is the same as the God of Judaism and Christianity in the sense that Islam is technically an offshoot of Christianity. Islam was derived by exposure to Christianity and more specifically a rejection of certain crucial aspects of Christian theology. Essentially, in that regard, Islam is a Christian heresy.

However, if you mean "are they the same" theologically. Then the answer is no, absolutely not. God, as he is conceived of in orthodox Islamic theology is signficantly different than God as he is conceived of in Christian theology.

The difference centers on the doctrine of the Trinity, which is the central doctrine of Christianity and all orthodox Christian theology.

Because the God of Islam is by nature solitary, he is not capable of, nor does he desire relationship in the way that the God of the bible does. God's nature as family and God's nature as a God of relationship and a Love, is based upon the Trinity and without the Trinity none of those things are really possible for a monotheistic, unchanging God.

As a result, the love of God in Islam is fundamentally different than the love of God in Christianity. The God of Islam has a kind of compassion. Much like the benevolent feeling that a human may have for an animal, or pet. However, there is no concept of God truly inviting people into relationship, and especially not into family. In Islam, God has no family and such an idea is essentially blasphemous.

As a result they are not the same anymore than the Jesus of the Jehovah's witness or the Mormons is the same as the Jesus of orthodox Christianity.

The story that Islam is a Christian heresy holds no credibility with the acknowledged scholars in the field of Islamic Studies.

 

[Simon_Templar]

The story that Islam is a Christian heresy holds no credibility with the acknowledged scholars in the field of Islamic Studies.

Well, first off, having spent a lot of time in the world of scholars and scholarship, I tend not to take them too seriously.

To quote GK Chesterton,
"without education we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously"


However, calling Islam a Christian heresy may be over-stating the case. My point was that Islam is derivative of Christianity in a historical sense. The core of Islamic scripture and theology, and sacred history, is based on Genesis. It could be argued that these were received from primarily Jewish sources rather than Christian. However, even if this were true, the fact that Islam accepted Jesus as Messiah and prophet (though not as divine) is clearly indicative that the religion was more heavily influenced by Christian teaching than by Jewish. In truth it was probably a mish-mash of both influences.

However, I'm sure that there are scholars of Islamic studies who would even question that. I remember that my professor of Islamic history seriously posed the question to us as students of whether the Islamic version of the stories from Genesis was the original or whether the Judeo-Christian version was.

The only way in which you could possibly make this argument with any degree of credability is if you assume Islam to be the true religion and assume that Muhammed really did get the Koran from heaven.

Of course this 'scholar' was also a self prophesed post-modernist who didn't believe that there were any such thing as cause and effect relationships. Everything in history just happens for no particular reason.

 

[steve_bakr]

Well, first off, having spent a lot of time in the world of scholars and scholarship, I tend not to take them too seriously.

To quote GK Chesterton,
"without education we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously"

However, calling Islam a Christian heresy may be over-stating the case. My point was that Islam is derivative of Christianity in a historical sense. The core of Islamic scripture and theology, and sacred history, is based on Genesis. It could be argued that these were received from primarily Jewish sources rather than Christian. However, even if this were true, the fact that Islam accepted Jesus as Messiah and prophet (though not as divine) is clearly indicative that the religion was more heavily influenced by Christian teaching than by Jewish. In truth it was probably a mish-mash of both influences.

However, I'm sure that there are scholars of Islamic studies who would even question that. I remember that my professor of Islamic history seriously posed the question to us as students of whether the Islamic version of the stories from Genesis was the original or whether the Judeo-Christian version was.

The only way in which you could possibly make this argument with any degree of credability is if you assume Islam to be the true religion and assume that Muhammed really did get the Koran from heaven.

Of course this 'scholar' was also a self prophesed post-modernist who didn't believe that there were any such thing as cause and effect relationships. Everything in history just happens for no particular reason.

If you study the Qur'an, you may find that it has more similarities to Judaism than Christianity. While it accepts that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary and was called Messiah--ie, of the Jews--that is a function of the fact that Islam is believed to incorporate the past revelations--ie, Judaism and Christianity

 

[ivebeenshown]

Look we all have minds and we have personal relationships with Christ Jesus. Man will always fail us, this we know. I follow Christ first and if I read something that goes against Holy scripture, I always adhere to the word of God.

If you follow Christ first then you will accept the teachings of his appointed teachers.

I posted very clear and concise quotes from scripture and some from Christ himself. You refereed to them as a wall of quotes.

I know those passages of scripture already. When you just post a bunch of quotations and don't offer any personal word, you're just posting a wall of quotes.

 

[ivebeenshown]

I don't think my question was actually answered

It was.

We know that God did not really give those revelations to Mohammed, but that doesn't mean he is writing about a different God -- it just means he falsely attributed things to God. Objectively, Mohammed made false claims about the very same God we believe in.