Question about Allah

[Michie]

That was my point in posting scripture. I was hoping that they would read it. Paul discussed the Jews. Jesus was a Jew, Paul was a Jew, all the Apostles were Jews. Paul discusses those Jews that hardened their hearts, but he warned us not to be haughty, that he was telling us a secret, that the Jews would be grafted back on to the vine.

The wall of words also tells us, that the only way to the father is through Christ Jesus, he is the way, the truth and the life.

I don't castigate Muslims, I am sure if they never heard the word or are sincere in their hearts, then Christ will have mercy.


Ask a Muslim if we worship the same God. See what their answer would be.

Exactly.

 

[Lady Bug]

I'm OK with acknowledging that Muslims do try to worship the God of the Bible.

I do get perturbed at what appears to be a requirement to believe that the God of the Bible and the God of the Koran are OBJECTIVELY the same entities. That would mean that the same God employed the same angel Gabriel (the same angel Gabriel that appeared to Mary?) to partake in additional revelation to Mohammad. Did the same God do this? Objectively speaking?

If it's an OPTION to believe that they are the same God, that is less of an issue.

 

[steve_bakr]

The wall of quotes is called the word of God.

But the Catechism recognizes that "together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." Maybe it's because I'm a newer convert, but I choose not to question the teachings of the Church.

But I must compliment posters on this thread, because this discussion is much more civil than non-Catholic threads on the same topic.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I think the main problem is that so many get involved in the theological aspects of things that it tends to leave who Jesus is & what His mission was along with Sacred Scripture. I'll be honest, if I'm going to choose between Scripture & the CCC. I'm going with Scripture.

I have to agree. That's why I generally try to use bible verse quotes to help explain what I'm trying to say.

 

[Chrystal-J]

And if you don't understand why this is the case, it unfruitful to continue this conversation.

If all you can do is insult others to get your point across, then yes it is.

 

[Tigg]

The wall of quotes is called the word of God.

 

[steve_bakr]

I have to agree. That's why I generally try to use bible verse quotes to help explain what I'm trying to say.

Yikes, the Reformation and Sola Scriptura! Lol.

 

[steve_bakr]

We acknowledge the truths in Islam. Nothing more. As far as I'm concerned he took the God of Abraham & gave Him a makeover. Add the fact that they do not even believe Jesus died on the cross & rose again.

Well if that is the case, we are to be pitied. Scripture says as much.

As far as I know, I don't have to believe anything other than recognizing the truths. When it veers off into crazy land & rejects Christ for who He is.... you lose me.

Call me a cafeteria catholic but there it is.

I don't think that's being a cafeteria Catholic.

 

[Tigg]

just ask if they believe Jesus is God and you'll have your answer.

They do not. And goes against what I know is a fact. Thank you.

 

[steve_bakr]

They do not. And goes against what I know is a fact. Thank you.

Yes we--Catholics and Muslims--obviously disagree on the true nature of Jesus Christ.

 

[Chrystal-J]

Lets remember that there are not "many gods" to adore, there is only ONE GOD, well, said that we have to be clear, Muslims have a mistaken image of God. They say that Gabriel taught to Mohamed what it is written in the Quran. When in fact Mohamed knew of Jesus christ after Arrians who lef the roman empire to be exiled in arabic peninsula out of the borders of the empire.

However, when debating with muslims the key is not refering on what it is written in Quran, what we deny, and neither on what it is written in the New Testament, because they deny it, The key to show who is right is to go to the Old Testament and show 2 key points:

1st-The Messiah is God,
2nd-No one of the prophets expresed that after the Messiah there would come another prophet.

The first point is shown bringing the quotes of tha Old testament where it is refered that God will come and gather all nations, as we read in Isaiah 66, that he himself would come to feed his sheep, that Malachi said that one last prophet would come Elijah (John the baptist) and after him the angel of the Lord (Gabriel), and then The Lord would come to his Temple (Our Lord Jesus). the salm 110,1, Etc.

I am sure there ar many friends who can also give many quotes of the old testament showing that the Messiah was God himself. I would bring more but I am in my job.

The second point is for them to show where in the old testament can we read that after the messiah another prophet would come.

You've made some good points. It's not whether a religious group thinks that there is only one God and He created the world. But, it's everything else that follows through God's own prophecies. He spoke of what was to come--it happened and now we must believe that Jesus is God.

I had some friends who were Jehovah Witnesses and they believe that Jesus was Michael the Arch Angel. They don't believe in hell. They basically call God a liar because they deny much of what is written in the bible. They are not followers of the same God as the God of the Catholic Church. Their God does different things than the God we know from the bible. They say their God is the same God as ours, but how can it be? Their God is suddenly changing bible verses and basic Christian beliefs. That's not the God I follow.

 

[Tigg]

I think the main problem is that so many get involved in the theological aspects of things that it tends to leave who Jesus is & what His mission was along with Sacred Scripture. I'll be honest, if I'm going to choose between Scripture & the CCC. I'm going with Scripture.

I take note that no one has given a link to any Pope speaking Ex Cathedra on this issue. Because the CCC says they worship a singular god does not make it ours (or for some here, mine). I will take Scripture also. As Scripture is clear who the God I worship is, who the God that all Catholics worship is.

 

[steve_bakr]

I take note that no one has given a link to any Pope speaking Ex Cathedra on this issue. Because the CCC says they worship a singular god does not make it ours (or for some here, mine). I will take Scripture also. As Scripture is clear who the God I worship is, who the God that all Catholics worship is.

So, as a newer Catholic, should I follow what is in the CCC, or only the things that I want to follow in it? If I did not follow the CCC, but relied on Scripture alone, I would feel like a--Protestant. But I converted to Catholicism. I don't think the dogma of the infallibility of the Pope means you can disagree with anything that is not ex-cathedra.

 

[Tigg]

I have my answer for what I asked. And have read the thoughts of all. The Muslim god is not my God. I will worship God - the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I believe the Nicene Creed and do not believe in any way in the Muslim god. Just put an I for we and this is what I believe.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Good nite all and God bless and say your prayers.

 

[Tigg]

So, as a newer Catholic, should I follow what is in the CCC, or only the things that I want to follow in it. If I did not follow the CCC, but relied on Scripture alone, I would feel like a--Protestant. But I converted to Catholicism. I don't think the dogma of the infallibility of the Pope means you can disagree with anything that is not ex-cathedra.

It means it is not infallible or wrote in stone. The Pope is a good man. What he says should be listened to with an open heart. But no Pope is perfect. No where has any Pope said to my knowledge that the Muslim god and our God is the same. That both share in a one God view is true. But that doesn't mean they are the same. I think it was Michie that says agree with the good. And that I will do. But I will not bow down and worship the Muslim's god. No thanks.

Take care. Nite

 

[steve_bakr]

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

AMEN.

 

[steve_bakr]

It means it is not infallible or wrote in stone. The Pope is a good man. What he says should be listened to with an open heart. But no Pope is perfect. No where has any Pope said to my knowledge that the Muslim god and our God is the same. That both share in a one God view is true. But that doesn't mean they are the same. I think it was Michie that says agree with the good. And that I will do. But I will not bow down and worship the Muslim's god. No thanks.

Take care. Nite

I don't think the CCC teaches you to bow down to the Muslim understanding of God, so I don't know why you would feel the need to say what you did. Your profession of faith in the Nicene Creed is good enough for me.

 

[Michie]

I don't think that's being a cafeteria Catholic.

Some might. But I'm to a point where I just don't care much anymore. I do the best that I can to be obedient because I do think the RCC holds the fullness of faith. But there are some issues I struggle with. I just think that Jesus saying who He is & what He did for us is the foundation of our belief. Not philisophical theology which tends to leave Jesus out of it 99% of the time.

 

[Michie]

I take note that no one has given a link to any Pope speaking Ex Cathedra on this issue. Because the CCC says they worship a singular god does not make it ours (or for some here, mine). I will take Scripture also. As Scripture is clear who the God I worship is, who the God that all Catholics worship is.

 

[StThomasMore]

well on one hand, the god of the Koran was the god of Abraham and the creator of heaven and earth
on the other hand they reject Jesus Christ
and I think Jesus says that those who do not know Him do not know the Father who sent Him

"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." - Luke 10:16

"Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.". - 1 John 2:23