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Question about Allah

steve_bakr

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ivebeenshown said:
We believe God instituted a Church with a Pope, and Protestants don't. Do they worship a different God, or do they just have a mistaken view of the same God?

"[...] the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God [...]"

That is non-negotiable Church teaching.

I agree with this, and I don't see why a Catholic would want to engage in Fundamentalist thinking on this matter.
 
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Vendetta

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But the people in Matthew 7:21 seem to be cast away because they did things in God's name for their own gain. Islam is a religion of prayer, fasting, closeness to God, and humility. I am a Catholic who follows the Church, but if we declare that the Muslims don't at least try to worship our God, then we give ourselves an excuse to avoid ecumenism and make an enemy of Muslims, who simply want to follow the path to God. Islam is wrong when it says that Jesus is not the Son, but the fact that it reveres him as a Prophet gives us ground to work with. It may be that God declares all Muslims as worthy of hellfire, but I cannot judge. How can we win Muslims to our side when we reinforce differences rather than similarities?
 
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steve_bakr

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Vendetta said:
But the people in Matthew 7:21 seem to be cast away because they did things in God's name for their own gain. Islam is a religion of prayer, fasting, closeness to God, and humility. I am a Catholic who follows the Church, but if we declare that the Muslims don't at least try to worship our God, then we give ourselves an excuse to avoid ecumenism and make an enemy of Muslims, who simply want to follow the path to God. Islam is wrong when it says that Jesus is not the Son, but the fact that it reveres him as a Prophet gives us ground to work with. It may be that God declares all Muslims as worthy of hellfire, but I cannot judge. How can we win Muslims to our side when we reinforce differences rather than similarities?

Exactly.
 
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Chrystal-J

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But the people in Matthew 7:21 seem to be cast away because they did things in God's name for their own gain. Islam is a religion of prayer, fasting, closeness to God, and humility. I am a Catholic who follows the Church, but if we declare that the Muslims don't at least try to worship our God, then we give ourselves an excuse to avoid ecumenism and make an enemy of Muslims, who simply want to follow the path to God. Islam is wrong when it says that Jesus is not the Son, but the fact that it reveres him as a Prophet gives us ground to work with. It may be that God declares all Muslims as worthy of hellfire, but I cannot judge. How can we win Muslims to our side when we reinforce differences rather than similarities?

In Matthew, it they're referring to the "anti-Christ" (those who deny Jesus is God).
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

And the Anti-Christ is defined in the bible as:
1 John 2:22 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

And I've never said that we should make enemies of Muslims. If anything we should do as commanded and love them in order to show them the way to Christ. Even if you don't want to focus on the differences, at some point you'll have to tell the Truth or the person you are talking to won't be saved. And that is the most important thing we can do as Christians--help others to the light. (In a loving way.)
 
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Lets remember that there are not "many gods" to adore, there is only ONE GOD, well, said that we have to be clear, Muslims have a mistaken image of God. They say that Gabriel taught to Mohamed what it is written in the Quran. When in fact Mohamed knew of Jesuschrist after Arrians who lef the roman empire to be exiled in arabic peninsula out of the borders of the empire.

However, when debating with muslims the key is not refering on what it is written in Quran, what we deny, and neither on what it is written in the New Testament, because they deny it, The key to show who is right is to go to the Old Testament and show 2 key points:

1st-The Messiah is God,
2nd-No one of the prophets expresed that after the Messiah there would come another prophet.

The first point is shown bringing the quotes of tha Old testament where it is refered that God will come and gather all nations, as we read in Isaiah 66, that he himself would come to feed his sheep, that Malachi said that one last prophet would come Elijah (John the baptist) and after him the angel of the Lord (Gabriel), and then The Lord would come to his Temple (Our Lord Jesus). the salm 110,1, Etc.

I am sure there ar many friends who can also give many quotes of the old testament showing that the Messiah was God himself. I would bring more but I am in my job.

The second point is for them to show where in the old testament can we read that after the messiah another prophet would come.
 
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Vendetta

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And I've never said that we should make enemies of Muslims. If anything we should do as commanded and love them in order to show them the way to Christ. Even if you don't want to focus on the differences, at some point you'll have to tell the Truth or the person you are talking to won't be saved. And that is the most important thing we can do as Christians--help others to the light. (In a loving way.)

No, you certainly did not say we should makes Muslims our enemies. I was pointing out that saying they don't worship our God makes our relationship less friendly.

Let me take the discussion in a different way. The Prophet Muhammad, PBUH, reportedly spoke with the angel Gabriel to receive the message of the Qur'an. As we are Catholic and believe as Catholics do, we believe that it could not have been the angel Gabriel (or any angel of God, for that matter). If that's the case, there are three options 1) the Prophet fabricated the Qur'an, 2) the angel was sinister, or 3) the Prophet believed he saw things that he did not. Option 1 seems unlikely, as all reports of the Prophet seem to suggest that the Prophet was an upstanding man. Option 2 is possible; an elaborate ploy that mixes a lot of very good with just enough deceit to lead souls away from the true faith. There's some plausibility to this idea. Souls that would have otherwise followed the Christian path are instead Muslims, who are more likely (though perhaps not guaranteed) to follow the road to Hell. Option 3? Meh, I'm unsure.

But even given that I think option 2 possible, I still feel as if we should give the Muslims the benefit of the doubt on whether they attempt to worship our God. The religion does lead to a false idea of God, true, and we should always make it clear that we believe in the Triune God. Still, I think positive emotion trumps negative emotion every time (perhaps I've watched Inception too much), and if we can create some form of kinship by affirming this ecumenical idea, then I think we stand a far better chance of helping them to Christianity than we would if we simply condemned them. If we choose the latter, it seems that we would only succeed in ending dialogue.
 
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No, you certainly did not say we should makes Muslims our enemies. I was pointing out that saying they don't worship our God makes our relationship less friendly.

Let me take the discussion in a different way. The Prophet Muhammad, PBUH, reportedly spoke with the angel Gabriel to receive the message of the Qur'an. As we are Catholic and believe as Catholics do, we believe that it could not have been the angel Gabriel (or any angel of God, for that matter). If that's the case, there are three options 1) the Prophet fabricated the Qur'an, 2) the angel was sinister, or 3) the Prophet believed he saw things that he did not. Option 1 seems unlikely, as all reports of the Prophet seem to suggest that the Prophet was an upstanding man. Option 2 is possible; an elaborate ploy that mixes a lot of very good with just enough deceit to lead souls away from the true faith. There's some plausibility to this idea. Souls that would have otherwise followed the Christian path are instead Muslims, who are more likely (though perhaps not guaranteed) to follow the road to Hell. Option 3? Meh, I'm unsure.

But even given that I think option 2 possible, I still feel as if we should give the Muslims the benefit of the doubt on whether they attempt to worship our God. The religion does lead to a false idea of God, true, and we should always make it clear that we believe in the Triune God. Still, I think positive emotion trumps negative emotion every time (perhaps I've watched Inception too much), and if we can create some form of kinship by affirming this ecumenical idea, then I think we stand a far better chance of helping them to Christianity than we would if we simply condemned them. If we choose the latter, it seems that we would only succeed in ending dialogue.


Muhammad was indoctrinated by arrians expelled from the roman empire who went to arabia, that is all.
 
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Vendetta

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I don't see why it has to.

Poor wording on my part. "I was pointing out that saying they don't worship our God could possibly strain a relationship between two religions that have a rocky past" is truer to what I meant, but worded poorly. It does not necessarily hinder friendly relations, but it certainly is sufficient to do it.
 
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Cosmic Charlie

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If God commands us to worship and accept Jesus as ONE with Him, then we must do that. If someone else is worshiping a God who does NOT expect us to accept Jesus as one with Him--then I don't see how it can be the same God, because God never contradicts Himself.

Bible verse: Hebrews 13:
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

< staff edit >

< staff edit > it's an exact analog to the question

"Can God make a rock so big He can't lift it ?"

This discussion simply cannot take place without context and spiritual understand of a God unbounded by the limits of time, dimensionality and universality.

< staff edit >.
 
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Lady Bug

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Poor wording on my part. "I was pointing out that saying they don't worship our God could possibly strain a relationship between two religions that have a rocky past" is truer to what I meant, but worded poorly. It does not necessarily hinder friendly relations, but it certainly is sufficient to do it.
well has it helped our relations in any shape or form? do you think they care about what the CC says?
 
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Tigg

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Goodness! I wasn't sure any would answer and have been shopping. My gratitude and thanks for everyone's answer.

IMO altho Allah means God, it is not the same God.

"yes but if a pagan was praying to the Cerrnnunus the horned god and was just calling him god, you would not say that since it is the same word we are praying to the same thing?" - Rhamiel

The fact of one God being worshiped is good but that probably could be said of some others. I will bow on knee if not totally face down to Jesus (and the Muslims, like it or not, will do the same according to Rev.) and confess Jesus is Lord.

I am reading all replies and giving it all a good think over and wish to thank you all for your replies. Am I wrong? I don't think so but....
 
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Chrystal-J

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I was pointing out that saying they don't worship our God makes our relationship less friendly.


I don't see why it has to.

Me either. I used to live in a predominately Arab/Muslim neighborhood. I was friends with some of the people there. I enjoyed their company, but if they asked me "How do you get to heaven"? I'd say: "Only through the Lord God, Jesus Christ." And I said that because I liked them and wanted to see them get to heaven.



 
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Chrystal-J

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< staff edit > .

< staff edit > it's an exact analog to the question

"Can God make a rock so big He can't lift it ?"

This discussion simply cannot take place without context and spiritual understand of a God unbounded by the limits of time, dimensionality and universality.

< staff edit > .

What aspect of bible based Christianity DO you believe in?
 
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stone

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I think or have been told or read that the Muslim Allah and out God are the same. Maybe the Catechism says - I don't know.

just ask if they believe Jesus is God and you'll have your answer. :crossrc:
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Jews, Christian, and Muslims all seek to serve the one God of Abraham.

Some people think Obama is an anti-christian, demon-led puppet. Others think he is a nice guy trying to to the best he can for the country. Do these two groups perceive different people, or do they just have varied opinions about one and the same Barack Obama?


Poor analogy. Is the Islamic God Triune and do they believe that Jesus and God are one ? If they don't, then they are not worshiping the same God.

Muslims also read the Koran, which is not accepted by either Christians or Jews. If you feel they worship the same God, the ergo the Koran should be acceptable for Christians to read.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Then who do those of the Jewish faith worship ?

You evaded the question Rawson by posing another. The Jews don't believe the Messiah has yet to come. God speaks about his chosen people (Jews) all through scripture. I maybe missed the part of scripture where God discussed Islam.

The word also states that the Jews will be grafted back onto the vine. There is no mention if Islam.

We also do know that Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi.
 
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