Question about a married man who gets a vasectomy? Is this a sin?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
37,126
13,191
✟1,089,808.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
This is such an interesting thread for someone like me, whose childbearing years are behind me, to read.

When I was a young Mom, no one I know even thought about the things you all are thinking about.

I knew men who were afraid to get a vasectomy, or couples who were afraid they might change their mind about children after a vasectomy, but never people who thought it was morally wrong.

And that included all the Catholics I knew, too. (I lived in the northeast, so I didn't know any fundamentalists, although I'm sure there was probably a small percentage living here or there.)

Why does the man want a vasectomy? Is it because he wants to be able to adequately provide for the children he already has? Is it because he or his wife has health problems? Is it because he has a child with extraordinarily special needs whose needs would be shortchanged if there were other children to care for?

If a person has been told that it's a mortal sin to practice birth control, or use the pill, or an IUD, or a condom, or get sterilized, and has the choice of making one irrevocable decision, and committing one possible sin or thousands upon thousands, and his family is complete, maybe one sin (if indeed, the person believes it is a sin) is the better way to go....

One sin for which you could atone (because if, in your heart of hearts, you were truly convicted that it was a sin, I'm sure you would be sorry) instead of thousands upon thousands.....

Why do I say it this way? Because if you killed someone, you'd be absolutely convinced it was a sin. Or if you robbed a bank, or told a damaging lie....But logic doesn't tell you that a vasectomy in an overpopulated world and a culture where raising children is costly is wrong.
 
Upvote 0

White Horse

Natural born world shaker
May 3, 2005
18,145
3,300
✟49,668.00
Faith
Christian
bliz said:
Well, no. I don't try and get as many tomatoes or peppers out of my garden as possible. I pinch back vines and remove some tiny peppers so that others may grow larger on the amount of rainfall and ground I have. My garden has limited resources, even with my rain barrel and compost pile, and can only support so much production. One of my early gardening years I tried to get fruit from every single blossom, and I got fruit from a lot of them, but much of it was small and not nearly as delicious as it should have been.

Game, set, match. :clap:
 
Upvote 0

indra_fanatic

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2005
1,265
59
Visit site
✟16,733.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
JunkYardDog said:
It seems to me I recall the GOD calls having a child a blessing and a reward, you, OTOH compare it to a destructive disaster. :scratch:

You seem to be saying it is a "mandate" whereas Scripture calls it a reward, gift, etc. Would you also say that everyone has to do their best to find a spouse because Proverbs says that "he who finds a wife finds what is good"?
 
Upvote 0

JunkYardDog

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
623
26
74
✟915.00
Faith
Christian
jtbdad said:
Two serious questions for those who contend that birth control is always a sin because children are always a blessing.

Where exactly in scripture does God tell us that Children are ALWAYS a blessing? (and I am specifically looking for the word always)

I don't know that the word always is ever used, but the Srcipture ALWAYS describes having children as a blessing. I raised six, and I cannot say they are always a blessing at as they grow up, but they were always a blessing anyway.

What precisely should I have told the 3 or 4 different doctors who told both me and my heartbroken wife that another pregnancy would certainly end her life?

And what crystal ball did they consult so that they knew the future that well? I have met MANY such women who have gone on to have many children. Not one of those predictions came true.

As an aside, do you realize just HOW HEAVILY INFILTRATED the medical with pro-abort, population-control freaks? Probably not. Talk to a truly reputable, completely pro-life (COMPLETELY) doctor before you make any decisions.

I guess I have a third question how would I explain to my two children that their mother died because it was God's will that we not prevent it?

I suppose you would tell them the same things that other husbands have under similar circumstances -- but you are getting ahead of yourself here.
 
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
37,126
13,191
✟1,089,808.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
JunkYardDog said:
As an aside, do you realize just HOW HEAVILY INFILTRATED the medical with pro-abort, population-control freaks? Probably not. Talk to a truly reputable, completely pro-life (COMPLETELY) doctor before you make any decisions.

Are you implying that a "reputable, completely pro-life (COMPLETELY) doctor" doesn't have a personal agenda, too?

The completely pro-life doctors who examined Terry Schiavo (some via videotape) certainly had personal agendas.

The honest thing for them to have done was to have said, "She has minimal brain-stem activity, but we believe that denying food and water to a person with minimal brain-stem activity is immoral." Instead, they created a fictional cognitive fantasy about her life to try to change public opinion through lies and chicanery rather than through a personal moral statement.

Same with Bill Frist....he made a medical diagnosis on Terry Schiavo which was completely disproved by the autopsy.

The only difference is that, if a (COMPLETELY) pro-life doctor examined Mrs. jtbdad, he might be pushing her towards her death, whereas, in the case of Terry Schiavo, they were using medical mythology to help her live.
 
Upvote 0

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟12,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
JunkYardDog said:
I raised six, and I cannot say they are always a blessing at as they grow up, but they were always a blessing anyway.
Your children weren't always a blessing, but they were a blessing? What does that mean?

JunkYardDog said:
And what crystal ball did they consult so that they knew the future that well? I have met MANY such women who have gone on to have many children. Not one of those predictions came true.
A medical recommendation is not based on a crystal ball. It is a medical doctor's opinion based on what he knows of human physiology, the disease in question, and the patient. And of course people act against their doctor's orders and/or seek second opinions all the time.

Are you suggesting that when all is said and done a couple should never heed the advice of doctors who recommend against pregnancy because it is the doctor's opinion that because of the woman's particular condition, pregnancy carries a serious risk that she (and possibly the fetus as well) will die? Just because "not one of those predictions came true" for the people you know doesn't mean it hasn't for others, or that others should ignore the advice of their own doctors. Perhaps you'll agree that the seat belt/car crash analogy fits better here, when the potential "disaster" we speak of is a woman's death.
 
Upvote 0

JunkYardDog

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
623
26
74
✟915.00
Faith
Christian
beechy said:
Your children weren't always a blessing, but they were a blessing? What does that mean?

Sometimes they didn't act like blessings so in that sense they weren't at that time, but overall children are always a blessing.

A medical recommendation is not based on a crystal ball. It is a medical doctor's opinion based on what he knows of human physiology, the disease in question, and the patient. And of course people act against their doctor's orders and/or seek second opinions all the time.

It can also be heavily colored by the world-view of the doctor.

Are you suggesting that when all is said and done a couple should never heed the advice of doctors who recommend against pregnancy because it is the doctor's opinion that because of the woman's particular condition, pregnancy carries a serious risk that she (and possibly the fetus as well) will die? Just because "not one of those predictions came true" for the people you know doesn't mean it hasn't for others, or that others should ignore the advice of their own doctors. Perhaps you'll agree that the seat belt/car crash analogy fits better here, when the potential "disaster" we speak of is a woman's death.

Never say never, beech. I said they should find a truly pro-life doctor -- one who might actually LOOK for ways they can have children before cutting and cauterizing.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shizzle

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2005
936
43
✟8,792.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Private
and now someones going to reply: well who wouldnt want a blessing? we shouldnt resist the blessings of God.. blah blah blah.

1 corinthians 7:8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. 10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
what logical reason does it have to say this? By not having children, we can bring more people to god throughout our lives.
 
Upvote 0

JunkYardDog

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
623
26
74
✟915.00
Faith
Christian
Shizzle said:
and now someones going to reply: well who wouldnt want a blessing? we shouldnt resist the blessings of God.. blah blah blah.

1 corinthians 7:8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. 10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
what logical reason does it have to say this? By not having children, we can bring more people to god throughout our lives.

You are right, shiz. I'd say that blah, blah, blah. This verse, in context, DOES stand for the idea that one may serve God in ministry more fully when unmarried. There is not the distraction of a spouse, whom you must please, nor (though paul doesn't mention it) children. However, if you DO get married, that's a nother matter. if you don't WANT children, you have no business getting married.
 
Upvote 0

indra_fanatic

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2005
1,265
59
Visit site
✟16,733.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Fantine said:
Are you implying that a "reputable, completely pro-life (COMPLETELY) doctor" doesn't have a personal agenda, too?

The completely pro-life doctors who examined Terry Schiavo (some via videotape) certainly had personal agendas.

The honest thing for them to have done was to have said, "She has minimal brain-stem activity, but we believe that denying food and water to a person with minimal brain-stem activity is immoral." Instead, they created a fictional cognitive fantasy about her life to try to change public opinion through lies and chicanery rather than through a personal moral statement.

Same with Bill Frist....he made a medical diagnosis on Terry Schiavo which was completely disproved by the autopsy.
With all due respect, these are two completely separate issues and belong in a different thread. Terri was a living, breathing human being. You can't "prevent the conception" of someone already here. Unless the conversation now explicitly includes abortion as a matter of debate, I don't see an analogy.

Brian

PS: Bill Frist just showed us all his true colors...
 
Upvote 0

Sam Gamgee

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2005
1,652
103
53
New Hampshire, United States
Visit site
✟17,350.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
JunkYardDog said:
if you don't WANT children, you have no business getting married.

What about my mother who went through menopause... and THEN met a man she wanted to marry...

Should she live in sin with him or marry him even though she can't have children?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JunkYardDog

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
623
26
74
✟915.00
Faith
Christian
Sam Gamgee said:
What about my mother who went through menopause... and THEN met a man she wanted to marry...

Should she live in sin with him or marry him even though she can't have children?

Babies happen, as I told another one here. If you get married, you will have sex (the real stuff, Sam) and that always means babies are possible. Since sex is not a life necessity, she shoul not shack up -- you still end up with the possibility of babies (in case you don't know). That would be fornication.
 
Upvote 0

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟12,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
JunkYardDog said:
Babies happen, as I told another one here. If you get married, you will have sex (the real stuff, Sam) and that always means babies are possible. Since sex is not a life necessity, she shoul not shack up -- you still end up with the possibility of babies (in case you don't know). That would be fornication.
My mother had a hysterectomy for medical reasons at the age of 36. Should she and my father have stopped having sex after that, or are you going to tell me that there's a "possibility of babies" without a uterus?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟12,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
JunkYardDog said:
Sometimes they didn't act like blessings so in that sense they weren't at that time, but overall children are always a blessing.
Children aren't blessings at the times they're misbehaving? Can a child's behavior have an impact on how much of a blessing (s)he is overall?


JunkYardDog said:
It can also be heavily colored by the world-view of the doctor.
It can be. Which is one of the reasons people seek second opinions sometimes, like I said.


JunkYardDog said:
Never say never, beech. I said they should find a truly pro-life doctor -- one who might actually LOOK for ways they can have children before cutting and cauterizing.
But once that "truly pro-life doctor" has finished LOOKing for "ways they can have children" and still recommends that they don't for the sake of the mother's health, do you think it is then ok to follow that doctor's advice and take steps to prevent pregnancy? Or do you think a "truly pro-life doctor" can never reach that conclusion? (I know you said to "never say never", but I want to make sure I understand your point).
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.