Question about a married man who gets a vasectomy? Is this a sin?

[ebia]

So you don't trust God. Thankyou.

Of course I don't believe that - I just thought you ought to experience being told that, since you've told so many others here the same.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Of course I don't believe that - I just thought you ought to experience being told that, since you've told so many others here the same.

That's fine. Since I know your statement is false, I have no problem with you saying it. I've been called worse by better.

 

[ebia]

That's fine. Since I know your statement is false, I have no problem with you saying it. I've been called worse by better.

I'm glad to see my 'tactic' worked as intended.

 

[Celticflower]

This question may be out of left field, but......

Junk Yard Dog--How many children do YOU have?

 

[JunkYardDog]

This question may be out of left field, but......

Junk Yard Dog--How many children do YOU have?

. . . *and JunkYardDog moves under the pop-fly to left field* . . . Six and 15 grandchildren -- so far.

 

[beechy]

No. the simplest way for me to be blessed with sheep is for god to GIVE them to me. As to heterosexual vaginal sex (the ONLY kind of real sex) without birth control, my wif and I NEVER used birth control.

So you think it makes more sense for God to "give" you lambs through the legal vehicle of inheritence or as a gift from another person, than for you to go out and by some sheep to start the ball rolling? Why don't you similarly think the most sensible way for God to "give" you children is through a legal operation like being assigned guardianship or by having a baby mysteriously left on your doorstep?

 

[JunkYardDog]

So you think it makes more sense for God to "give" you lambs through the legal vehicle of inheritence or as a gift from another person, than for you to go out and by some sheep to start the ball rolling? Why don't you similarly think the most sensible way for God to "give" you children is through a legal operation like being assigned guardianship or by having a baby mysteriously left on your doorstep?

Your assertions are foolish. There is nothing God commands me to do that would automatically result in having sheep, lambs, or other livestock. However, when I am married I have the pleasant obligation of havins sex with my wife. God informs me that children are a blessing, so if I continue to exercise my pleasant obligation, it is likely I will be the recipient of those blessings. Should I elect to control my own fertility and resist God's blessing me -- especially if I am doing so because I am concerned about a future that God knows and I don't -- that indicates a lack of faith. However, choosing how to invest my money -- whether in lands, livestock, or a business -- is not specifically delegated in Scripture. If God directed me to buy sheep when I wanted to open a shoe store and I invested in the shoe store, that would be another matter. God HAS told us married people to have sex and to be fruitful and multiply. Since He is the only one who knows the future, He is the only one qualified to decide how many and how often with the blessings of children. It doesn't even take that much faith -- it is just downright reasonable to trust One who KNOWS as opposed to one who doesn't. The main faith needed is to believe God when He says children are a blessing. There are no "qualifiers" on that statement. He did not say, " . . . when they come at the 'right' time." However, you do add to that statement. You keep saying that you believe children are a b;lessing BUT . . . "

What is the difference between a sheep and a goat? Goats BUTT.

Just say, "Baaaaa," beechy.

 

[beechy]

Your assertions are foolish. There is nothing God commands me to do that would automatically result in having sheep, lambs, or other livestock. However, when I am married I have the pleasant obligation of havins sex with my wife. God informs me that children are a blessing, so if I continue to exercise my pleasant obligation, it is likely I will be the recipient of those blessings. Should I elect to control my own fertility and resist God's blessing me -- especially if I am doing so because I am concerned about a future that God knows and I don't -- that indicates a lack of faith. However, choosing how to invest my money -- whether in lands, livestock, or a business -- is not specifically delegated in Scripture. If God directed me to buy sheep when I wanted to open a shoe store and I invested in the shoe store, that would be another matter. God HAS told us married people to have sex and to be fruitful and multiply. Since He is the only one who knows the future, He is the only one qualified to decide how many and how often with the blessings of children. It doesn't even take that much faith -- it is just downright reasonable to trust One who KNOWS as opposed to one who doesn't. The main faith needed is to believe God when He says children are a blessing. There are no "qualifiers" on that statement. He did not say, " . . . when they come at the 'right' time." However, you do add to that statement. You keep saying that you believe children are a b;lessing BUT . . . "

What is the difference between a sheep and a goat? Goats BUTT.

Just say, "Baaaaa," beechy.

Yes, the Bible condones marriage and sex, it tells us that children are blessings, and it tells us that God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. From this you have somehow deduced that you should never have sex unless you're doing it in such a way that maximizes your chance of having children. There is simply nothing that supports this conclusion. Your reasoning has led us down paths that produce more and more questions, rather than answers.

You say your interpretation is correct because the Bible says children are blessings, so you should always act in a way to maximize God's ability to give you those blessings. This makes me wonder why you don't feel the same way about other things the Bible calls blessings, like lambs.

So, naturally, I ask why you aren't acting in a way to maximize the blessing of lambs and you call me foolish. My question is based on the tenets espoused in your own posts.

If your point is that only God knows when and how many of a blessing you should be receiving, and for this reason you should act in a way that will facilitate God's ability to make that decision, why do you apply this to one blessing and not another? Because you don't think that lambs are practical, important, or relevant for modern life?

It is true that the Bible doesn't tell you how to invest your money, but why would you deliberately not invest in that which will provide a biblically recognized blessing, that is, a flock of sheep and lambs? Why are you avoiding this blessing when you can embrace it by going out and getting a couple of sheep? You might think sheep are "foolish" or silly, but the Bible doesn't. Don't get me wrong, I don't think everyone needs to go out and start tending a literal flock, but I'm not the one reading the Bible to say that God mandates we live our lives in such a way so as to best facilitate our chances of receiving that which the Bible calls blessings. Baaaaah.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Yes, the Bible condones marriage and sex, it tells us that children are blessings, and it tells us that God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. From this you have somehow deduced that you should never have sex unless you're doing it in such a way that maximizes your chance of having children. There is simply nothing that supports this conclusion. Your reasoning has led us down paths that produce more and more questions, rather than answers.

I never said ANY such thing. I simply said we should not deliberately avoid having children. Sex within marriage should be UNINHIBITED by such concerns. THAT'S having faith.

You say your interpretation is correct because the Bible says children are blessings, so you should always act in a way to maximize God's ability to give you those blessings. This makes me wonder why you don't feel the same way about other things the Bible calls blessings, like lambs.

So, naturally, I ask why you aren't acting in a way to maximize the blessing of lambs and you call me foolish. My question is based on the tenets espoused in your own posts.

Since I never said any such thing, your argument about the sheep is bogus. If I believed that we should concsiously maximize having children, I would probably be recommending ALL couples use fertility clinics. I don't. If God chooses NOT to give you children, that is His call as well.

(BTW, only those who submit to God and trust Him can honestly say, "Baaa." This would mean BELIEVING Him all the time about everything. In other threads -- like those on homosexuality -- as well as this one, I think your own words indicate that you don't believe Him about everything.)

 

[beechy]

I never said ANY such thing. I simply said we should not deliberately avoid having children. Sex within marriage should be UNINHIBITED by such concerns. THAT'S having faith.

We're just going around in circles at this point. But I'll say it again. Why is it ok to deliberately avoid buying sheep that may produce lambs but not ok to deliberately avoid sex that may result in pregnancy? Because God didn't say you have to have lambs, or that you have to have a certain number of lambs, he just said that lambs are a blessing. Just as God didn't say you have to have children, or that you have to have a certain number of children, he just said that children are a blessing.

Since I never said any such thing, your argument about the sheep is bogus. If I believed that we should concsiously maximize having children, I would probably be recommending ALL couples use fertility clinics. I don't. If God chooses NOT to give you children, that is His call as well.

What defines "non preventive" action, and what makes it the threshold for "faith" rather than action which would optimize one's ability to receive a blessing? What does it mean to leave something up to God? Why, if something is a blessing and we should always want to recieve it, should we not act in a way so as to maximize that blessing?

If I received a couple of lambs as a gift (the way you envision possibly being blessed with them), would I have to accept that gift because the Bible says lambs are blessings and to decline the gift would be acting in a way to prevent God's blessing? What if I lived in an apartment building and had no place for the lambs (and the landlord prohibited them)? Would I have to move somewhere with space for the little lambies to be in keeping with the way we should act when it comes to accepting biblically condoned blessings? Should we all live on property with room for potential lamb gifts or inherited lambs, just in case, or should we just be prepared to move to a farm if we somehow are thusly blessed? I wouldn't have to think about any of this if I was presented with the gift of a golden retriever, though, right? Because golden retrievers aren't biblically itemized blessings?

(BTW, only those who submit to God and trust Him can honestly say, "Baaa." This would mean BELIEVING Him all the time about everything. In other threads -- like those on homosexuality -- as well as this one, I think your own words indicate that you don't believe Him about everything.)

I was just baaa-ing in response to your baaaa, which I assumed had something to do with all this lamb talk. I didn't know you were making sheep noise to represent yourself as one of God's flock.

And finally, your understanding of the Bible's stance on homosexuality has nothing to do with whether or not I believe God. I just don't believe the Bible says what you think it says.

 

[White Horse]

Maybe it's a sin to have children you can't afford to care for, eh?

 

[JunkYardDog]

Maybe it's a sin to have children you can't afford to care for, eh?

Chapter and verse, my friend.

Is God so hapless that He will give you blessings without the availability of a means to care for them?

 

[beechy]

Chapter and verse, my friend.

Is God so hapless that He will give you blessings without the availability of a means to care for them?

Bad things happen to good people in this world, as I'm sure you know. It is not our position to question God, but the birth control issue aside, I hope you are not denying there are children in these circumstances:

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/families.html
http://www.govspot.com/know/childpoverty.htm
http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF0803/Shames/Shames.html
http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00055940.html ("The leading cause of death in children in developing countries is protein-energy malnutrition.")

The luxury of such ignorance, I'd imagine, would make for a comfortable existence indeed.

 

[White Horse]

Chapter and verse, my friend.

Is God so hapless that He will give you blessings without the availability of a means to care for them?

My friend, He gave you a brain to use. When you pray for a good garden, you should do so with a hoe in your hand. We're not only to use faith, we're to use works and common sense.

 

[JunkYardDog]

My friend, He gave you a brain to use. When you pray for a good garden, you should do so with a hoe in your hand. We're not only to use faith, we're to use works and common sense.

Yes and you garden for MAXIMUM fertility, don't you?

The old saw, "He gave you a brain to use" as a reason to leave God out of the picture is 1) unbiblical, and 2) of limited applicability. When it comes to things involving knowing the future (such as whether you will be able to afford another child) your brain is simply the wrong tool for the job. Your brain cannot know the future, but God does.

 

[bliz]

Yes and you garden for MAXIMUM fertility, don't you?

Well, no. I don't try and get as many tomatoes or peppers out of my garden as possible. I pinch back vines and remove some tiny peppers so that others may grow larger on the amount of rainfall and ground I have. My garden has limited resources, even with my rain barrel and compost pile, and can only support so much production. One of my early gardening years I tried to get fruit from every single blossom, and I got fruit from a lot of them, but much of it was small and not nearly as delicious as it should have been.

 

[CM]

Yes and you garden for MAXIMUM fertility, don't you?

The old saw, "He gave you a brain to use" as a reason to leave God out of the picture is 1) unbiblical, and 2) of limited applicability. When it comes to things involving knowing the future (such as whether you will be able to afford another child) your brain is simply the wrong tool for the job. Your brain cannot know the future, but God does.

Um well, just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.

Plus, not using your brain with your child is what causes noobs, and we don't need anymore of those. :O

Plus, there's too many people as it is, so I see nothing wrong with the OP question.

 

[McDLT]

vasectomy is not a sin

 

[Oshikuru]

if The Lord had intended man and woman to have sex without the risk of pregnancy, he would've made a seperate hole that....HEYYYYY

 

[JunkYardDog]

if The Lord had intended man and woman to have sex without the risk of pregnancy, he would've made a seperate hole that....HEYYYYY

He designed it as an exit, not an entrance. Even medical science will tell you that using it for an entrance is damaging.