Putin’s candidate in the US presidential election – Biden

[7thKeeper]

Just google the history of NATO. If the USA wasn't a warmongering nation and wanted world peace we wouldn't be accepting a bunch of countries around Russia's border. All we had to do is tell Russia not to invade the neutral countries or we'll come over and kick your butt. Even your country has been neutral for so many years. Until you fearfully joined NATO.

Even if Trump withdrew from NATO we would still help other countries. I for one think that other NATO countries have been riding our backs for so many years. NATO has used America as its safety blanket.

No, specify what you meant. I'm aware enough of the history. So I'd like to know what exactly you meant instead of the cop out "Google it".

 

[Laodicean60]

No, specify what you meant. I'm aware enough of the history. So I'd like to know what exactly you meant instead of the cop out "Google it".

When NATO countries surround Russia's borders it's encroachment!

 

[trophy33]

When NATO countries surround Russia's borders it's encroachment!

This is a needlessly Russo-centric view of the world. Countries around Russia have all the right to make their own decisions where they want to belong. Russia ends by the Russian borders.

And because NATO or EU countries are virtually all democratic countries, its just a paranoia to think they want to attack Russia. Democratic countries with free elections do not vote to go to an offensive war, in which they and their children would be dying for nothing.

If Russia (or USA or China or any other big country) is fearful of attack, let them make buffer zones in their own countries, not in other countries around them. Modern weapons can strike any place on the planet from the orbit, so these buffer zones are kind of a remnant of the past, anyway.

 

[Laodicean60]

This is a needlessly Russo-centric view of the world.

Call it what you want I see the the world outside the box.

Countries around Russia have all the right to make their own decisions where they want to belong. Russia ends by the Russian borders.

And if they feel threatened. Remember the Cuban Missle Crisis? We have the right to maintain peace around the world by making smart decisions on who to accept into NATO not to antagonize other countries. Do you realize how important the black sea is to Russia and the world for that matter?

 

[trophy33]

Call it what you want I see the the world outside the box.

So see it outside of the box of USA vs Russia. There are almost 200 other countries who have their right to self-determination.

And if they feel threatened.

Feelings are irrational. They either are in danger or are not. And they are not, not from the EU side. Sleepy EU does not even have armies prepared to fight a big war and nobody was planning it, nobody was wanting it, so what was the threat?

We have the right to maintain peace around the world by making smart decisions on who to accept into NATO not to antagonize other countries. Do you realize how important the black sea is to Russia and the world for that matter?

No, you (the USA) have no right to maintain peace around the world. Its just exercising your astronomical military expenditures from the position of strength, not from the position of rights. You have a right only when a specific country asks you to help them.

Regarding having the right to not accept some country to NATO or to the EU, sure. But who says that a NATO/EU country has to be in enmity towards Russia? Business can be made without any problem, if both sides behave rationally. Even Germany got accepted to European commonwealth after the WW2, so also countries that were communist for 40 years...and both USA and EU have been making business with China for decades. Nobody needs wars and death.

 

[KCfromNC]

When NATO countries surround Russia's borders it's encroachment!

"That light pole jumped out right in front of my car, officer, honest!"

 

[Laodicean60]

Feelings are irrational.

Know history? Cuban Missle Crisis?

There are almost 200 other countries who have their right to self-determination.

Do you think if the USA said no they could join for the reason I mentioned? (keep the peace) but carry a big stick. They could determine all they want but have to be accepted. Just like there are 40 countries determined to join BRICS.

No, you (the USA) have no right to maintain peace around the world.

And yet we are helping the EU with shipping in the Red Sea. The USA doesn't have that many ships using the Red Sea trade route.

USA vs Russia.

Why does it have to be versus Russia or China?

 

[trophy33]

Know history? Cuban Missle Crisis?

We are not in the cold war.

Why does it have to be versus Russia or China?

Exactly. It does not have to be any versus.

 

[Laodicean60]

We are not in the cold war.

We've been hating on Russia for 80 years lol Yet we had companies in Russia but still inviting and even toppling governments at thier borders.

 

[trophy33]

We've been hating on Russia for 80 years lol Yet we had companies in Russia but still inviting and even toppling governments at thier borders.

Hate is irrational. I do not know why you have been hating "on" Russia and if its even true for common Americans. But I noticed that your movie production portraits them as villains absurdly frequently. USA seems to have a long history of hating specific groups or nationalities. Which ones changes, but the need to have some specific enemy remains in your culture.

 

[Laodicean60]

Sleepy EU does not even have armies prepared to fight a big war and nobody was planning it, nobody was wanting it, so what was the threat?

So do you support Ukraine? Seems like most EU countries do.

 

[trophy33]

So do you support Ukraine? Seems like most EU countries do.

Supporting a country that is under attack is a different thing from Ukraine in the EU/NATO being a real threat to Russia. Nobody wants to invade Russia, for what? Resources can be purchased, which is better for all sides. Also, as demonstrated now, Russian resources are not actually necessary for us. So again, what was the threat?

 

[7thKeeper]

When NATO countries surround Russia's borders it's encroachment!

No, it's not. NATO and Russia specifically have agreed that third party nations are all free to join NATO or Russia in a military alliance, if they feel that is for the best for their nations. And it is nations asking to join NATO, NATO itself doesn't initiate anything, it has to come from the nation wishing to join. Perhaps you'd need to ask yourself why so many former Warsaw counties have wanted to join NATO. And hint, it's not an aggressive reason.

 

[Laodicean60]

Supporting a country that is under attack is a different thing from Ukraine in the EU/NATO being a real threat to Russia. Nobody wants to invade Russia, for what? Resources can be purchased, which is better for all sides.

What reason for the attack? You'd have to learn a little history and maybe you'll understand.

Nobody wants to invade Russia, for what? Resources can be purchased, which is better for all sides.

How naive who wants to buy things when you can steal? How important is the Black Sea to the Russian economy? It's economic warfare just like Taiwan the world helped China become a superpower now we don't want them to have semiconductors. I love my country but I'm allowed to question what we do because of deglobalization.

 

[Laodicean60]

Perhaps you'd need to ask yourself why so many former Warsaw counties have wanted to join NATO. And hint, it's not an aggressive reason.

Why did your country join NATO? When it was neutral for so many years. See you guys peacefully lived and traded without the need for NATO just like all the other countries around Russia's border could have done. What's NATO for, protection?

 

[NxNW]

It's patently obvious Biden isn't running the show.

Name the person or persons who are.

 

[7thKeeper]

Why did your country join NATO? When it was neutral for so many years. See you guys peacefully lived and traded without the need for NATO just like all the other countries around Russia's border could have done. What's NATO for, protection?

Yes, protection/deterrent from aggression. After the full blown invasion of Ukraine, trust in Putin's rationality was finally all gone and public support for joining NATO flipped. If he can do that with Ukraine, what's to stop him from doing the same to us in the future? Trade and other things is all good and fine, Ukraine had deals with Russia. What did that do to deter anything? Trade is not related to the decision to join NATO. You are trying to conflate things here.

What does any of this have to do with your initial claim that "encroachment" is somehow a justification here, especially since Russia has agreed that nations are free to join NATO if they wish (and NATO saying the same for Russia)?

 

[wing2000]

Just google the history of NATO. If the USA wasn't a warmongering nation and wanted world peace we wouldn't be accepting a bunch of countries around Russia's border.

That isn't how NATO works. I suggest you need to do so more googling....

All we had to do is tell Russia not to invade the neutral countries or we'll come over and kick your butt. Even your country has been neutral for so many years. Until you fearfully joined NATO.

Is that all? I seem to recall several warnings were issued to Russia in the days leading up to the Ukraine invasion. It didn't make a difference as Putin correctly assessed the West was not going to intervene in a non-NATO country (Ukraine) and "kick it's but". Now Putin did underestimate the Ukranian military and the response by the West once it become apparent his military would not seize an immediate victory.

Even if Trump withdrew from NATO we would still help other countries.

On what basis? The who notion of withdrawing from NATO is based on an isolationist point of view: US should take care of itself....and nobody else.

I for one think that other NATO countries have been riding our backs for so many years. NATO has used America as its safety blanket.

No doubt Europe has benefitted from the peace and security....but so has the U.S. And as a reminder, only one country has invoked the NATO treaty.....the U.S. after 9/11. We dragged our allies into a 20 year war in Afghanistan...

 

[Laodicean60]

Yes, protection/deterrent from aggression. After the full blown invasion of Ukraine, trust in Putin's rationality was finally all gone and public support for joining NATO flipped. If he can do that with Ukraine, what's to stop him from doing the same to us in the future? Trade and other things is all good and fine, Ukraine had deals with Russia. What did that do to deter anything? Trade is not related to the decision to join NATO. You are trying to conflate things here.

What does any of this have to do with your initial claim that "encroachment" is somehow a justification here, especially since Russia has agreed that nations are free to join NATO if they wish (and NATO saying the same for Russia)?

Was it an aggressive act to overthrow Ukraines government in 2014 by supporting neo nazis? I personally want this bloodshed over one way or the other. I have to support my country in this but I don't like the reason. If people don't know what happened of course they can blame Russia link below.

The United States Is Reaping What It Sowed in Ukraine

The U.S. government continues sending weapons to Ukraine, escalating the likelihood of war with Russia.

progressive.org

 

[Laodicean60]

Is that all? I seem to recall several warnings were issued to Russia in the days leading up to the Ukraine invasion.

Several warnings have been issued to us since 2014.

On what basis? The who notion of withdrawing from NATO is based on an isolationist point of view: US should take care of itself....and nobody else.

If you haven't noticed we are Isolating ourselves by our actions. We used to be an isolationist country until Pearl Harbor. I guess you like being the world police, I don't how much debt we have acquired before we go broke as Britain did.

No doubt Europe has benefitted from the peace and security....but so has the U.S. And as a reminder, only one country has invoked the NATO treaty.....the U.S. after 9/11. We dragged our allies into a 20 year war in Afghanistan...

Agreed.