Purgatory!

[Rhamiel]

To each to his own I guess..

 

[fhansen]

To each to his own I guess..

I guess. Our sojourn here on earth is a shared one: humanity's journey away from God and back to Him, as we come to know Him, as we come to hunger and thirst for Him, as we come to recognize our need for Him, and ultimately as we come to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. This is what our justice consists of and this is why the greatest commandment is what it is. And this love excludes sin by its nature, purifying our hearts, making us capable of seeing God. Most of us aren't necessarily "there" yet at death. But God, in His mercy, will get us there.

 

[MoreCoffee]

that is your opinion and you are free to it
The Catholic Church has no doctrine on what Purgatory is like

but if you read the writings of many saints through the ages, you will see that they describe Purgatory as worse then any pain that was on earth

Saint Faustina was granted a vision of Purgatory and described it as a misty place full of suffering and fire

Visions can be quite baffling. Consider the visions of Daniel and Ezekiel and of saint John the theologian in the Apocalypse. And those visions were given in public revelation intended for the instruction of the saints. Saint Faustina's visions were private revelation, their intended purpose is less clear.

 

[South Bound]

would you please elaborate on your own views about Glorification?

If I do, will you admit that the two Catholic sources I provided you that state that the purpose of Purgatory is for the sinner to expiate his own sins are correct?

 

[South Bound]

I thank God no such place exists. It sounds truly awful.

Same here. I thank God we have a Savior so that we're not caught in an endless cycle of works.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Same here. I thank God we have a Savior so that we're not caught in an endless cycle of works.

Do you think a person who wilfully and persistently disobeys Jesus without repentance will be saved?

 

[Albion]

Do you think a person who wilfully and persistently disobeys Jesus without repentance will be saved?

I'm willing to guess that such a person as you describe does not have saving faith, and therefore won't be saved.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

I'm willing to guess that such a person as you describe does not have saving faith, and therefore won't be saved.

So actions are a necessary aspect of our salvation.

Can a person be saved without cooperating with God's grace?

 

[Albion]

So actions are a necessary aspect of our salvation.

They are the natural and inevitable fruit of a saving faith, yes.

Can a person be saved without cooperating with God's grace?

If you're saved, you will cooperate with God's grace, that's right.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

They are the natural and inevitable fruit of a saving faith, yes.


If you're saved, you will cooperate with God's grace, that's right.

Cooperation is an act of will.

Do you believe that a person can be saved against their will?

 

[South Bound]

Do you think a person who wilfully and persistently disobeys Jesus without repentance will be saved?

No. How is this relevant to Purgatory?

Cooperation is an act of will.

Do you believe that a person can be saved against their will?

Since no unregenerate man has the will to be saved, then by definition, anyone who is saved is saved against their will.

I thank God that He wants His creation to be truly, ontologically, just, as He always intended it to be, instead of merely "imputedly" so.

I see. So, the Biblical doctrine of imputation is just "mere imputation"? Good to know you hold God's Word in such high esteem.

I was responding to your comment about an endless cycle of works.

Oh, so then your question didn't have anything to do with the topic.

It seems that you don't believe that a person must endure to be saved. Am I missing something?

No, I don't believe one must endure to be saved. I believe one endures because he is saved.

 

[fhansen]

Same here. I thank God we have a Savior so that we're not caught in an endless cycle of works.

I thank God that He wants His creation to be truly, ontologically, just, as He always intended it to be, instead of merely "imputedly" so.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

No. How is this relevant to Purgatory?

I was responding to your comment about an endless cycle of works.

It seems that you don't believe that a person must endure to be saved. Am I missing something?

 

[Albion]

Cooperation is an act of will.

Do you believe that a person can be saved against their will?

What I believe is that that is a puerile question. And I always have, so don't take it personally.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

What I believe is that that is a puerile question. And I always have, so don't take it personally.

Actually, it is a very direct and difficult question that you won't answer because it exposes the flaws in your dogma.

 

[Albion]

Actually, it is a very direct and difficult question that you won't answer because it exposes the flaws in your dogma.

If that makes you feel better to say, be my guest. Catholics on these forums often resort to verbal footstomping when their talking points don't hold up.

Could we please return to discussing Purgatory now?

 

[catholichomeschooler]

No, I don't believe one must endure to be saved. I believe one endures because he is saved.

That's the problem.

Matt 24:13
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Luke 21:19
Stand firm, and you will win life.

Romans 2:7
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

If that makes you feel better to say, be my guest. Catholics on these forums often resort to verbal footstomping when their talking points don't hold up.

Could we please return to discussing Purgatory now?

You are the one that said I asked a childish question merely because you couldn't answer it.

 

[South Bound]

That's the problem.

And would you like to explain to us why you believe preservation of the saints is a problem for you?

 

[Albion]

You are the one that said I asked a childish question merely because you couldn't answer it.

Do you always flatter yourself so? I said what I did about the question because it's a lame question.