proving evolution as just a "theory"

[DogmaHunter]

I think it's hilarious that you STILL haven't replied to the post that both Jimmy and bhsmt are talking about. You know, the one immediatly before the post you were complaining to me about me saying that you have been given such examples in the past while you deny that to be the case. And where Jimmy points out that I am completely in my right to use harsh language when pointing out that you are lying, and actually provides you with links to previous conversations where you are given such examples.

Any time you wish to appologise or retract your complaints or....
Not counting on it though.

In fact, I fully expect to read a post of you a couple days from now where you AGAIN start talking about the non-existant "mutation theory" and claiming that "nobody has ever given you examples of beneficial mutations".

 

[joshua 1 9]

Tibetan people have a unique gene sequence, not found in other populations, which allows for more red blood cell production which in turn allows them to live at high altitudes without health problems.

What does that prove? Having a gene (EPAS1) does not prove the mutation theory. Not in the least. According to Collins the leading expert on DNA, this is the language God used when He created us. When God told mankind to be fruitful - multiply and replenish the earth.

My neighbors are from Napali, should I ask them if they have that gene and how they got it?

 

[DogmaHunter]

The Bible is 100% reliable to guide us and show us the way to live our daily lives

Including the part where it says that a good christian can drink snake poison?

Science wholeheartedly endorses and supports the Bible

Is that why the amount of atheists in scientific circles is widely out of proportion with the rest of the population demographics?

Esp the moral teaching we find in our Bible

Like stoning adulterers, killing gay people for being gay and regulating slavery?

It is Science that will stand as a witness and a testimony as to what is true. If you truly embraced Science then you would also embrace the Bible.

So the vast majority of the members of the national acadamy of science, don't truly embrace science. Got it.

 

[DogmaHunter]

My claim is supported by science and history. Which you admit that you reject because the truth does not support your hidden agenda.

Theists are the one with the agenda.
An atheist is happy to go where the data leads him/her.

It's the theist that has invested intrest in taking current data and force-fitting it into its preconceived beliefs.

Be careful how you judge others because it tells us about you

My irony meter just exploded.

 

[xianghua]

Ugh, I hate it when people who don't understand evolution, paleontology or the fossil record cite things like this. The paper proposes that basal tetrapods evolved about 18 million years earlier than the first currently known body fossils and a revised phlogeny.
It does not suggest that basal tetapods evolved before sarcopterygians which would falsify evolution.

incorrect. as some scientists admit:

"Prof. Narkiewicz, co-author of the article on the Zachelmie trackways, claimed that the Polish "discovery has disproved the theory that elpistostegids were the ancestors of tetrapods",[39] a notion partially shared by Philippe Janvier"

or another possibility is to "solve" this problem by convergent evolution:

"they were a result of convergent or parallel evolution so that apomorphies and striking anatomical similarities found in both digited tetrapods and elpistostegalians evolved at least twice"

so as you can see: we can always claim that tetrapods evolved twice. so your claim that "basal tetapods evolved before sarcopterygians which would falsify evolution" is incorrect.

so you are the one who doesnt understand evolution after all.

 

[DogmaHunter]

What does that prove?

The uniques gene sequence is the result of mutation + natural selection
Not of your grand wizard who goes into the Tibetan genome to fiddle about with the DNA to increase their red bloodcell production.

Having a gene (EPAS1) does not prove the mutation theory. Not in the least. According to Collins the leading expert on DNA, this is the language God used when He created us. When God told mankind to be fruitful - multiply and replenish the earth.

My neighbors are from Napali, should I ask them if they have that gene and how they got it?

I'm not even gonna dignify that nonsense with a response.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Mutations factually happen.

Yes because we live in a fallen world. That is not the driving force of evolution. It could be the driving force of the work the devil is doing to try to destroy God's Creation. You can not blame God for the mess that man and the devil has made out of His Creation here on Planet Earth.

I do not deny what you call evolution, I deny the mutation theory and you do not have a better explanation so you have to cling to a defunct theory.

Most mutations are neutral or harmful. Few mutations are anything that even YOU could consider to be beneficial and very simple math shows that the mutation theory does not have a leg to stand on in your effort to try to use it for your driving force behind evolutionary theory.

God said let us make mankind in our image and DNA was/is the language He uses. This whole process has nothing to do with mutations. Other then that you consider frame shift a mutation but no new information is added that was not there all along.

God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Genesis 1:26

 

[joshua 1 9]

The uniques gene sequence is the result of mutation + natural selection

I do not have a problem with natural selection, bottleneck thoery, founder effect and a lot of what they call evolutionary theory. I have a problem with your denial of God and your claim that mankind is a product of mistakes & errors called mutations. God does not make mistakes and errors. His pencil does not need an eraser. There are no erasers in Heaven.

 

[rjs330]

That's not how evolution works. So now that we've established that you don't understand the most basic concepts of biology, would you like to ask some questions so that you can gain a better understanding?

Oh yes it is. That's precisely how evolution from a common ancestor works. Evolutionists always run from this. If all living things came from a common ancestor then all living things changed from something into something else. If birds, monkeys, spiders, worms all came from one thing that one thing was not any if those things in the beginning.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I think it's hilarious that you STILL haven't replied to the post that both Jimmy and bhsmt are talking about.

Yes I did, he is defending evolutionary theory and I am not presenting a argument against the theory. Just the defunct corruption of the infidels in their attempt to hijack the theory.

 

[rjs330]

We agree man ws created in six days. But Im not ignoring the word hayah, or the fact what is a day, if as you believe the sun wasnt created until the fourth day? Imaginary sunrise and sunsets?

Note what the Bible says and what God declairs. He did not say sunrise and sunset. He said evening and morning as set by light and darkness.
Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.God saw that the light was good, so he ·divided [separated] the light from the darkness.God ·named [called] the light “day” and the darkness “night.” ·Evening passed, and morning came [L There was evening and there was morning; C in the OT a day begins at nightfall]. This was the first day. - Genesis 1:3-5 Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1:3-5 - Expanded Bible

He says the first day was determined by light and dark, not the sun and moon. God set the definitions.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes because we live in a fallen world.

Nevermind your faith-based religious beliefs with no basis in reality.

Point remains: mutations factually happen.

That is not the driving force of evolution

Neither is it a "theory" that they happen. They DO happen.
And it's a very important part on how change is introduced in the genetics of a population. It's one of those things that natural selection acts on.

So, do you only agree with your hero Francis Collins when it pleases you?

It could be the driving force of the work the devil is doing to try to destroy God's Creation.

You can not blame God for the mess that man and the devil has made out of His Creation here on Planet Earth.

Actually, I could. Because god is supposed to be omniscient and thus surely would have known what a terribly bad idea it would have been to create Satan, who would turn out to become the very embodiment of evil.

But let's not drift away. The main point here, is that that is so incredibly silly that it is not even worth addressing....

I do not deny what you call evolution, I deny the mutation theory and you do not have a better explanation so you have to cling to a defunct theory.

There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. Mutation. Theory.

Mutations factually happen.
Mutations are how genetic changes are introduced in populations.
The is fact, observable, verifiable, testable.

Your big hero Francis Collins would say the same thing. But I guess you only hold him up as the hero, when it pleases you.

Most mutations are neutral or harmful. Few mutations are anything that even YOU could consider to be beneficial and very simple math shows that the mutation theory does not have a leg to stand on in your effort to try to use it for your driving force behind evolutionary theory.

As long as beneficial mutations happen, evolution has fuel to keep going.
And no, most mutations are NOT harmfull.

Did you forget about the mutation rate of species? It's about 50-ish in humans. That's 50 per newborn.

If MOST mutations were harmfull, then almost no human would survive and homo sapiens (along with all other living things) would go extinct in less then 10 generations. Because every human would have harmfull mutations, as MOST of those 50 mutations would be harmfull.


And you wish to speak to me about math.........


For crying out loud

 

[HitchSlap]

Then show me one, present your case. I have never seen anyone talk so much and say so little. You remind me of my son when he does not know the answer on a test. He will just put a bunch of nonsense down and sometimes they give him credit for it. That don't fly with me. You need to come up with some evidence. Just being negative is more a sign of depression than actually providing an answer for the issues on the table.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, it would seem.

 

[joshua 1 9]

In fact, I fully expect to read a post of you a couple days from now where you AGAIN start talking about the non-existant "mutation theory"

Of course, a day, a month, a year. I will continue to speak out against the defunct theory as the driving force of evolutionary theory. Did Darwin ever talk about mutations? No, even though he had Gregor Mendel's book he did not read it. He totally missed the boat on this just like the boat has taken off and sailed without you onboard today.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I do not have a problem with natural selection, bottleneck thoery, founder effect and a lot of what they call evolutionary theory. I have a problem with your denial of God and your claim that mankind is a product of mistakes & errors called mutations. God does not make mistakes and errors. His pencil does not need an eraser. There are no erasers in Heaven.

God isn't a factor in evolution or indeed any other science.

If god is demonstrated to exist tomorrow, not one iota of evolution theory would be changed.
God with still be as absent as ever from that process.

Same goes for the origins of life.
It doesn't matter how it came about. Prove tomorrow that god created the first simple life form, and evolution theory would stay intact.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Nevermind your faith-based religious beliefs with no basis in reality.

Good job, you just judged yourself. Thanks you for saving me the time and trouble by admitting that your faith-based system of beliefs does not have a basis in reality. Those are your own words.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Oh yes it is. That's precisely how evolution from a common ancestor works. Evolutionists always run from this.

you seem to be confusing "running from this" with "trying to explain to you how you are arguing a strawman".

If all living things came from a common ancestor then all living things changed from something into something else

No, not into "something else".

If birds, monkeys, spiders, worms all came from one thing that one thing was not any if those things in the beginning.

Birds, monkeys, spiders, worms are a sub-set of that common ancestor.

Wolves and dogs come from a common ancestor that wasn't a wolf or a dog, true.
You know what it was? a canine. Both wolves and dogs are canines.

Humans and chimps share an ancestor that wasn't a human or a chimp. But it WAS a primate. It was also a mammal. And a tetrapod.

Newsflash: humans and chimps... both primates, mammals, tetrapods.

Evolution is a vertical process towards ever-more specialisation.
Species don't turn into completely different species. Species turn into sub-species.

i'm so sorry that you can't seem to wrap your head around that.
It's no surprise though, it seems you have real trouble in understanding what a pattern of nested hierarchies is as well.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes I did, he is defending evolutionary theory and I am not presenting a argument against the theory. Just the defunct corruption of the infidels in their attempt to hijack the theory.

I read every comment since that post. You did not reply to it.
Instead, just as I predicted, you continue to argue about the non-existant "mutation theory".

 

[joshua 1 9]

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, it would seem.

Newtons apple?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Did Darwin ever talk about mutations?

How could he, given that genetics wasn't discovered until much later?

No, even though he had Gregor Mendel's book he did not read it. He totally missed the boat on this just like the boat has taken off and sailed without you onboard today.

Darwin missed the boat on a lot of things, just like Newton.
Which is why biologists around the world continued research and learning for 200 years after that. Maybe you should catch up.