proving evolution as just a "theory"

[Wakalix]

You mean by reading the Quran? Pass. I don't really care what it contains as much as you don't. I know the Bible is the true word of God and that's good enough for me.

"I don't actually care about truth, just reinforcing my prior beliefs and calling them truth."

 

[Neostarwcc]

There's two things wrong in this statement.

1) In Hebrew the word translated as "circle" actually means circle, as in a round, flat plane. There is a word in Hebrew for "ball", which isn't the word Isaiah uses. The cosmological view of the time was consistent with what other ancient near eastern cultures thought, and that is the language the writers of Holy Scripture use.

2) Columbus didn't discover that the earth was round, everyone with a basic education at the time already knew that; we've known this in the West since at least the time of Eratosthenes who demonstrated the spherical shape of the earth 2300 years ago. The idea that medieval people believed the earth is flat is a popular modern myth--and the idea that Columbus set out to prove the earth was round is pure fiction, invented out of imagination in the 1800s. The reality is that Columbus believed the earth was much smaller than it is (Eratosthenes' experiments also mathematically gave us the size of the planet as well, and he was remarkably close to the actual figure, being off by only a few percent). Columbus' unfounded belief that the earth was about 1/3 smaller than what was accepted led him to believe that it was possible to reach India by sailing west--no one doubted that you could in theory reach Asia by sailing west at the time, but the distance alone made that an utterly suicidal mission to attempt (imagine sailing in a relatively primitive wooden vessel across both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans with no Americas in between). After being rejected by other European rulers, and even by the Spanish Crown several times, they finally agreed and gave him a few boats to go on his suicidal trip. Columbus was wrong, he merely got lucky to bump into a Caribbean island. Well, lucky for him, very unlucky for the indigenous peoples. Christopher Columbus is one of history's most evil tyrannical monsters.

-CryptoLutheran

So you're saying that Isaiah was teaching that the world was flat? Don't you think the Hebrew Scholars would have picked up on that and would have translated it "On the flatness of the Earth"? Thank you for the education on Christopher Columbus though I didn't know that.

"I don't actually care about truth, just reinforcing my prior beliefs and calling them truth."

Thank you for twisting my words around .

 

[TBDude65]

So you're saying that Isaiah was teaching that the world was flat? Don't you think the Hebrew Scholars would have picked up on that and would have translated it "On the flatness of the Earth"? Thank you for the education on Christopher Columbus though I didn't know that.



Thank you for twisting my words around .

The Bible describes the Earth as a flat disc (round). It also talks about the corners of the Earth, which one can't get on a sphere or a circle but now we are talking about the differences between the OT and NT.

The Greeks knew long before Jesus' supposedly lived that the Earth was a sphere thanks to Eratosthenes (who demonstrated it at least 200 years before the Christ was supposed to be born).

 

[Neostarwcc]

The Bible describes the Earth as a flat disc (round). It also talks about the corners of the Earth, which one can't get on a sphere or a circle but now we are talking about the differences between the OT and NT.

The Greeks knew long before Jesus' supposedly lived that the Earth was a sphere thanks to Eratosthenes (who demonstrated it at least 200 years before the Christ was supposed to be born).

Thank you for the clarification. I was confused.

 

[TBDude65]

Thank you for the clarification. I was confused.

You're welcome

You should look up what Eratosthenes did to demonstrate the Earth as a sphere. It's quite ingenious given the time he did it in

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible describes the Earth as a flat disc (round).

No.

It also talks about the corners of the Earth, which one can't get on a sphere or a circle ...

You educatees might not be able to; but what else is old?

Can't you take an orange and cut it into four wedges, find the center of mass of each wedge, then put the orange back together?

Nevermind.

 

[Neostarwcc]

You're welcome

You should look up what Eratosthenes did to demonstrate the Earth as a sphere. It's quite ingenious given the time he did it in

I will have to give that a read. It does sound interesting.

 

[TBDude65]

I will have to give that a read. It does sound interesting.

What is even more impressive is how accurate he was about the circumference of the Earth.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So you're saying that Isaiah was teaching that the world was flat? Don't you think the Hebrew Scholars would have picked up on that and would have translated it "On the flatness of the Earth"? Thank you for the education on Christopher Columbus though I didn't know that.

The word doesn't mean "flat", the word חוּג ("chug") means "circle" or "horizon" or "vault" or "compass" or "circuit". It comes from the verb חָ֭ג, meaning "to draw around". As in Job 26:10, "He has inscribed a circle on the surface". The LXX likewise uses the word γῦρον (guron) meaning "ring" or "circle" in Isaiah 40:22. The Latin of the Vulgate uses gyrum, meaning "circuit", "circle", or "ring".

Meaning that the ancients did understand this world to mean circle. Reading it to mean sphericity is an anachronistic imposition upon the text that isn't actually present therein.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Neostarwcc]

The word doesn't mean "flat", the word חוּג ("chug") means "circle" or "horizon" or "vault" or "compass" or "circuit". It comes from the verb חָ֭ג, meaning "to draw around". As in Job 26:10, "He has inscribed a circle on the surface". The LXX likewise uses the word γῦρον (guron) meaning "ring" or "circle" in Isaiah 40:22. The Latin of the Vulgate uses gyrum, meaning "circuit", "circle", or "ring".

Meaning that the ancients did understand this world to mean circle. Reading it to mean sphericity is an anachronistic imposition upon the text that isn't actually present therein.

-CryptoLutheran

I see. Very interesting.

 

[sfs]

The word doesn't mean "flat", the word חוּג ("chug") means "circle" or "horizon" or "vault" or "compass" or "circuit".

That verse is also not teaching anything about the shape of the earth. It's saying something about God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That verse is also not teaching anything about the shape of the earth. It's saying something about God.

Right, but the language used is consistent with ancient near eastern cosmology. But this is why I'm quite able to believe Scripture without being a flat-earther; because the point of Scripture isn't to tell us the shape of our world, but to proclaim Jesus.

Earlier today I came across a thread that quoted OrthodoxWiki's article on Scripture, which I thought was pretty spot on, in particular this is something that I think should be emphasized far more often:

"The Bible presupposes the faith of the reader. It is a faith document—not science, philosophy, history, archaeology, literature, ideology, or biography. Because of its origins and usage in the community of faith, it does not attempt to establish its own authenticity or to prove its basic assumptions. It was not intended as a logical proof for the existence of God or for the reality of that to which it attests." - Holy Scripture - OrthodoxWiki

-CryptoLutheran

 

[PsychoSarah]

The failure rate is more like 99.99%. Esp when you bring in the DNA evidence that shows just about everything science believed to be true 10 years ago is now turning out NOT to be true. Just one example is they use to talk about "JUNK" DNA and now they are finding out that so called junk is not junk at all but used for regulation.

While some portions of DNA once thought to be junk have been found not to be, this was an early error of a newly budding science. You have no idea how much more difficult it was to sequence a genome in 2007 than it is to do so in 2017.

At this point, non-functioning DNA is about as easy to identify as functional genes. After all, all functional genes have sequences for specific proteins to latch on to that preceded them.

Furthermore, you have to consider exons, the sequences in genes that, while initially put into mRNA for use in making proteins, are "cut" out before that production occurs.

Look at the famous monkey trial debate. Now science is even backing off on that.

The trials about teaching evolution in schools that were mostly publicity stunts?

"For decades, scientists have agreed that human and chimpanzee DNA is 98.5 percent identical. A recent study suggests that number may need to be revised. Using a new, more sophisticated method to measure the similarities between human and chimp DNA, the two species may share only 95 percent genetic material."

Humans, Chimps Not as Closely Related as Thought?

The variation in percentage is due to how the similarity is calculated (utilizing the genes, or the entire genome. The former results in a higher percentage than the latter. Basically, the junk DNA between our species is more dissimilar than the functional parts).

 

[Allandavid]

they were fully humans.

Primitive humans, quite different from modern humans.

But yes, humans nevertheless...what's your point? It is clear that the fusion event must have taken place after the 'split' that resulted in the branch that humans occupy...you seem to be confirming this..?

 

[PsychoSarah]

they were fully humans.

We've sequenced Neanderthal DNA. We know they aren't the same species as ourselves. And before you or anyone else tries to mention "science conspiracy hiding the truth", prior to that DNA being sequenced, the common conclusion was that Neanderthals were a very recent ancestor to our species (a conclusion that was disproven by the DNA). Their physiology is too different from our own to conclude that they were the same species, even without sequencing their DNA.

 

[joshua 1 9]

"Make sure not to consider the enemy's arguments! They're definitely wrong - don't even imagine for a moment that they could be correct."

Not only is the argument wrong the logic and reason is the product of a reprobate mind.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I think you’re assertion that people don’t get away with anything is demonstrably false.

Christians when they die go to their reward so whatever consequences we have we suffer in this life.

In Luke we read the story of the Rich man and Lazarus: Luke 16:22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment," Here we see that those who are unsaved and not redeemed are punished for their sin and transgression.

We see that Lazarus said: "I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

We have the Bible and everyone will be held accountable.

 

[rjs330]

When god talks to you, does he have a high, or low pitched voice? I'm just curious.

I don't know I've never actually heard him speak audibly.

 

[rjs330]

If you are referring to scriptures, then god 'told' you nothing. Those words were all written by humans. Sure, they claim to have spoken on behalf of a god, just as Mohammed did, just as Joe Smith did, etc. But none of them have any evidence to support their claims either...

That's why it's called faith. But for me it's also experience. I have a relationship.wih the Almighty. I wish you did too.

 

[rjs330]

"Common design" is a buzzword that means nothing. If anything, these continual attempts to co-opt evolutionary models of the history of life on Earth suggests that if life was designed, it was designed to look like it evolved.

No it wasn't. You see what you want to see. It all interpretation of the evidence. There is evidence that creatures can evolve to sustain existence. Such as the bird mentioned previously. I see that as evidence that God created life to do that. You see evidence that we all came from a common ancestor.