Proud to be Ignorant

[pat34lee]

But he did tend to limit his claim to the ring and his poetry. I don't recall him claiming to be a better football player than Jim Plunkett or Jim Brown.

“At home I am a nice guy: but I don’t want the world to know. Humble people, I’ve found, don’t get very far.”
~ Muhammad Ali

 

[Cimorene]

What's unfair is that the mom decided her kid should be proud to be ignorant.

 

[Cearbhall]

What's unfair is that the mom decided her kid should be proud to be ignorant.

Also that she said "Those are zeros that we proudly took." Lady, they aren't your grades! This isn't your life and future! I'm guessing she convinced her daughter that this was the right thing to do, but I would be beyond mad if my mom expected me to fail a unit. If they're thinking about getting the kid into a parochial high school in the hopes that Islam won't come up again, those grades matter.

 

[Cimorene]

Also that she said "Those are zeros that we proudly took." Lady, they aren't your grades! This isn't your life and future! I'm guessing she convinced her daughter that this was the right thing to do, but I would be beyond mad if my mom expected me to fail a unit. If they're thinking about getting the kid into a parochial high school in the hopes that Islam won't come up again, those grades matter.

It's teaching a lousy work ethic too.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Was this a public or private educational institution?

The reason I ask is because if there were a secular kid (with secular parents) who did the same thing for a "Christian History" course at a public school, many progressives would be on their side instead of mocking them.

Perhaps there's some selective outrage a play here?


I personal view is "all or nothing" (although I lean more toward the nothing). If people want a true separation of church and state, then apply that standard consistently across the board.

 

[Cearbhall]

Was this a public or private educational institution?

The reason I ask is because if there were a secular kid (with secular parents) who did the same thing for a "Christian History" course at a public school, many progressives would be on their side instead of mocking them.

Perhaps there's some selective outrage a play here?

Public.

It's not even an Islamic history course. It's just a general survey class, and the state standards for it require plenty of information about Christianity. I highly doubt they'll try to defend non-Christian students, since the outrage is based on logic like this: "It is time as parents, teachers and administrators we stand up and take back our families, our schools and our country."

 

[MrSpikey]

I believe I posted links to these statements scroll through the comments.

No. You posted a link to an article about how Christians are getting angry at losing their influence, and another about how wearing a (not religiously required) crucifix might interfere with an employers dress code rules. I asked you for one link - that muslims don't have to wear sterile clothing in ER. Thanks in advance.

Just for the record WE that would be the people who are British are all aware of what is happening to our country. The only reasons I can think of for you to dispute this is that you're either an immigrant or you're one of these people who loves to argue. I haven't been on this forum for three years so I'm not familiar with you.

I was born on British soil to parents who were the same, going back - well, no idea, I've never been interested in genealogy. "WE" the people aren't aware of this. I know many people who have different ideas about the state of our country. I don't agree with all of them, but there isn't a hegemonic "WE" who are all aware of a particular state. You do get bonus points for suggesting someone who doesn't agree with you is somehow an "immigrant", though. You could do well in certain "political parties".

Try listening to the news once in a while, read the newspapers, talk to your neighbours

Gosh, I do all these things daily!

talk to the handful of people who do attend Church these days

I'll admit I don't know many who are regular church attendees these days. That isn't really that surprising, given the numbers who do has been nosediving for years. But, of the ones I do know, none of them feel they are being victimized or scapegoated for their religion.

and perhaps take a drive through one of the no go areas but then I doubt that you really are British.

Well, now I'm intrigued! Which "no go" areas are these? I've traveled these lands from top to bottom, and while I've certainly had some interesting encounters, I've never found a "no go" area. Out of interest, how do you know they are "no go" areas, unless you went there? Which wouldn't be possible, obviously, as they are "no go" areas...

But yes, despite your continued doubts, I'm British. Do you equate everyone who doesn't agree with your beliefs as somehow "alien"?

I've given you links I'm not going to look up every doubt you have you can manage to do that yourself.

You've given me two links for things I never asked for and that didn't contradict what I said in the first place. I asked you for one more. If you don't want to provide it, that's fine, but expect me to dismiss what you say out of hand if you can't spend a brief period of time showing me an article that expresses your point of view, rather that just "look at any article on google" and try and work out my opinion from that.

 

[Cimorene]

This is what I still don't get. How does simply LEARNING about world religions not represent the values of the country? So does she think ignorance is a value for the whole country?????

 

[Dave-W]

This is what I still don't get. How does simply LEARNING about world religions not represent the values of the country? So does she think ignorance is a value for the whole country?????

I would guess that ignorance as a value is based in this:

Deut 12.29 “When the Lord your God cuts off before you the nations which you are going in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, 30 beware that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How do these nations serve their gods, that I also may do likewise?’

Since that was a command to the entire nation, they try to apply it to our nation as well.

But on a related note - there is a bad attitude in some evangelical and pentecostal circles concerning education in general. They are of the opinion that if you are educated beyond highschool, it MUST adversely impact your faith and understanding of God and the bible.

 

[MrsBrit]

No. You posted a link to an article about how Christians are getting angry at losing their influence, and another about how wearing a (not religiously required) crucifix might interfere with an employers dress code rules. I asked you for one link - that muslims don't have to wear sterile clothing in ER. Thanks in advance.



I was born on British soil to parents who were the same, going back - well, no idea, I've never been interested in genealogy. "WE" the people aren't aware of this. I know many people who have different ideas about the state of our country. I don't agree with all of them, but there isn't a hegemonic "WE" who are all aware of a particular state. You do get bonus points for suggesting someone who doesn't agree with you is somehow an "immigrant", though. You could do well in certain "political parties".

Muslim medical staff not only have been allowed to wear unsterile clothing in Theatre they are refusing to scrub up to the elbows because females can't show their arms. You can look that up for yourself.
By the way you've just given yourself away by referring to Casualty as the ER as Americans do and I didn't say ER I said while performing surgery. Your American term for Casualty is proof that you are NOT British and you really do have no idea of what is happening in the UK. Just for your entertainment research the "children" who have just been admitted to Britain, the ones with wrinkles and bags under their eyes. I suppose you will argue about that too.
Your statement that implies I'm racist is simply not true, the race card is what someone plays when they know they've lost the debate.



Gosh, I do all these things daily!



I'll admit I don't know many who are regular church attendees these days. That isn't really that surprising, given the numbers who do has been nosediving for years. But, of the ones I do know, none of them feel they are being victimized or scapegoated for their religion.



"Well, now I'm intrigued! Which "no go" areas are these? I've traveled these lands from top to bottom, and while I've certainly had some interesting encounters, I've never found a "no go" area. Out of interest, how do you know they are "no go" areas, unless you went there? Which wouldn't be possible, obviously, as they are "no go" areas..."

Here's another link to the no go areas that you claim don't exist.http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/62...ech-British-police-ISIS-radicalisation-London

I believe I've given you the link to the no go areas. You haven't travelled Britain from top to bottom or you wouldn't argue with this well known fact.

But yes, despite your continued doubts, I'm British. Do you equate everyone who doesn't agree with your beliefs as somehow "alien"?



You've given me two links for things I never asked for and that didn't contradict what I said in the first place. I asked you for one more. If you don't want to provide it, that's fine, but expect me to dismiss what you say out of hand if you can't spend a brief period of time showing me an article that expresses your point of view, rather that just "look at any article on google" and try and work out my opinion from that.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Was this a public or private educational institution?

The reason I ask is because if there were a secular kid (with secular parents) who did the same thing for a "Christian History" course at a public school, many progressives would be on their side instead of mocking them.

Perhaps there's some selective outrage a play here?


I personal view is "all or nothing" (although I lean more toward the nothing). If people want a true separation of church and state, then apply that standard consistently across the board.

Santa Monica High School, aka Samohi, is a public school in one of the more liberal-leaning cities in the country, and it teaches a Bible Literature course. The King James Bible is their provided "textbook." They study the narratives of the bible, its literary genres and motifs, and the influence it had on shaping Western literature, law, and philosophy. Friends who've taken it have said it's actually more popular with secular and Jewish kids than Christians.

It is not a required class, though. Students can take other classes to fulfill the English requirements.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No. They explicitly aren't. The majesty of Americans are self identified Christians, so it is a majority Christian country, but it doesn't endorse Christianity as a state religion, by law.

I think that is what she meant. All so-called Christian countries are termed that because of Christian majority populations, not because of any mandate. This is clear by the fact that all other religions are present in these countries.

 

[Armoured]

Was this a public or private educational institution?

The reason I ask is because if there were a secular kid (with secular parents) who did the same thing for a "Christian History" course at a public school, many progressives would be on their side instead of mocking them.

Perhaps there's some selective outrage a play here?


I personal view is "all or nothing" (although I lean more toward the nothing). If people want a true separation of church and state, then apply that standard consistently across the board.

Islamic history (and Christian history) are major factors in understanding the modern world. And learning either is hardly equivalent to proselyting.

Pretending Islamic history doesn't exist isn't going to make the nasty Muslims go away.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Islamic history (and Christian history) are major factors in understanding the modern world. And learning either is hardly equivalent to proselyting.

Pretending Islamic history doesn't exist isn't going to make the nasty Muslims go away.

This is exactly the problem; we do know Islamic history, going clear back to Hagar and Ishmael.

 

[MrsBrit]

No. You posted a link to an article about how Christians are getting angry at losing their influence, and another about how wearing a (not religiously required) crucifix might interfere with an employers dress code rules. I asked you for one link - that muslims don't have to wear sterile clothing in ER. Thanks in advance.



I was born on British soil to parents who were the same, going back - well, no idea, I've never been interested in genealogy. "WE" the people aren't aware of this. I know many people who have different ideas about the state of our country. I don't agree with all of them, but there isn't a hegemonic "WE" who are all aware of a particular state. You do get bonus points for suggesting someone who doesn't agree with you is somehow an "immigrant", though. You could do well in certain "political parties".

......and here's one more link to the no go areas you deny are in Britain for non Muslims just in case you didn't see the other two. When you state facts with certainty and are sarcastic to those who dispute them you lose credibility.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rea-What-police-told-Christian-preachers.html




Gosh, I do all these things daily!



I'll admit I don't know many who are regular church attendees these days. That isn't really that surprising, given the numbers who do has been nosediving for years. But, of the ones I do know, none of them feel they are being victimized or scapegoated for their religion.



Well, now I'm intrigued! Which "no go" areas are these? I've traveled these lands from top to bottom, and while I've certainly had some interesting encounters, I've never found a "no go" area. Out of interest, how do you know they are "no go" areas, unless you went there? Which wouldn't be possible, obviously, as they are "no go" areas...

But yes, despite your continued doubts, I'm British. Do you equate everyone who doesn't agree with your beliefs as somehow "alien"?



You've given me two links for things I never asked for and that didn't contradict what I said in the first place. I asked you for one more. If you don't want to provide it, that's fine, but expect me to dismiss what you say out of hand if you can't spend a brief period of time showing me an article that expresses your point of view, rather that just "look at any article on google" and try and work out my opinion from that.

 

[MrsBrit]

Old Wise Guy.....Thank you that's exactly what I meant.

 

[MrSpikey]

Sorry, Mrs B - if there was a point in that (or the various similar) posts, I didn't discern it

 

[Jack of Spades]

Islamic history (and Christian history) are major factors in understanding the modern world. And learning either is hardly equivalent to proselyting.

Pretending Islamic history doesn't exist isn't going to make the nasty Muslims go away.

Maybe this is a problem in the marketing of the course? The course should have targeted slogans for fundie students, like "Know your enemy, learn the dirty past of Islam!".

 

[Armoured]

Maybe this is a problem in the marketing of the course? The course should have targeted slogans for fundie students, like "Know your enemy, learn the dirty past of Islam!".

I think it's just another example of what drives so many of these type of discussions. Some people literally seem to think that any exposure at all to some things may lead to an infection, as though Islam, homosexuality, or liberal ideas were literally contagious

 

[Jack of Spades]

I think it's just another example of what drives so many of these type of discussions. Some people literally seem to think that any exposure at all to some things may lead to an infection, as though Islam, homosexuality, or liberal ideas were literally contagious

But liberal ideas are contagious, because they make sense! Once the brain of a person is enlightened by the glorious liberal truths, there is no way to unenlighten it!

But actually, I gotta admit, there is a part of me that kind of understands that phobia, to a certain point. If someone asked me to join a course of "Islamic history to learn and understand religious diversity" - my own first gut reaction would be that it's not an actual attempt to teach objective history, but a politically driven, perhaps a bit naive, attempt to present a whitewashed version of Islam, to make me less anti-Islam.

I think that while liberals are usually the good guys, they have an annoying tendency to go too far and don't stick to the objective assessment, in an attempt of trying to promote tolerance. Now this is of course a far lesser problem than ignorance + bigotry of the opposite camp, but a problem that often annoys me.