Proud to be Ignorant

[MrsBrit]

So, after this, let's have a look at the actual facts.

In Britain, state schools are required to have a daily act of christian worship. Those not believing do not have to attend. Religious education classes are also mandatory in state schools, and cover christianity amongst other religions.

There is no rule that determines whether people can refer to Christmas or not.

It is not illegal to wear a cross at work - your employer might require a specific dress code, and this might restrict your right to wear symbols of faith that are voluntary, rather than required by your faith, such as a crucifix.

The stuff about Muslims not having to wear sterile garments in OR is simply untrue. I can only hope you are misinformed rather than a liar.

My nieces and nephews all attend state schools in various parts of Britain and not one of them have ever had a daily act of Christian worship. NOT ONE. When I went to school we used to have assembly with hymns and a Bible reading but it seems not any more so I don't know where you get your information from and just for the record I don't like being called a liar.
Tell the woman who worked for the airlines who was sacked because she refused to remove the cross around her neck since the airline felt it might offend non Christians, tell her that it's not illegal. You might also include the council worker who had a cross hanging from his rearview mirror and was told he had to remove it. While you're at it include the nurse who offered, didn't actually pray, but offered to pray for the recovery of a patient she was sacked too.

It has been documented that Muslim medical staff are allowed to wear their headscarves in the OR, these headscarves have not been sterilized. Apart from the media reports on this my sister is a nurse and she has voiced her concerns about the lack of sterile garments in the OR for a long time.

I'll also add that Christians are the ones being discriminated against in Britain, you might want to Google that along with the Sharia courts that are allowed to operate in matters of inheritance and child custody even though Islamic law in these cases go against British law.

I have trouble believing your are British because we are all well aware of these facts.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ns-in-britain-face-widespread-discrimination/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...acks-Government-over-right-to-wear-cross.html

 

[Received]

The less informed a person is, the easier they are to manipulate.

Not only that. The less you really know your own position and are therefore capable of defending it against opposing views, the more you see the opposing views as a threat. They won't let Islamic history in because it opens up questions about their own Christian faith by contrast, and the typical "Christendom" Christian (as Kierkegaard would word it) holds to his own faith for the sake of the herd more than for the validity of its claims.

 

[Inkfingers]

In Britain, state schools are required to have a daily act of christian worship.

There is, but it is a very loosely defined mish mash that whilst supposed to be "broadly Christian" can also include elements of other religions so long as it retains a recognition of Christ having a "special status".
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/281929/Collective_worship_in_schools.pdf

 

[Cearbhall]

Except they don't teach about Christianity at the schools around here

I assure you, if you crack open one of their history or social studies textbooks, you will read about Christianity.

in fact the teachers now have to refer to Christmas carols as winter songs and it's a winter break not a Christmas holiday.

That's called not allowing the government to promote any religion, which is exactly what the angry parents are concerned about. They want to make sure that religion is not being promoted, and it's a fair concern. Of course, the problem is that they aren't seeing the difference between learning about a religion and being taught to practice it. This difference is why students do learn about Christianity in history but don't sing songs that praise baby Jesus.

 

[AirPo]

Duplicate post cuz technology isn't working perfectly.

See, it's fading already!

 

[keith99]

I am okay with it as long as other faiths are studied as well... however, I am not game for learning just about islam...all or none

Then it must be none. There are thousands of sects of Christianity alone, many distinct enough that others do not consider them Christian.

 

[Cearbhall]

Alright ya'll, I went to their school district website and found the 7th grade curriculum. The textbook is myWorld History and Geography. Here are some excerpts from the curriculum showing to what degree they cover Islam (surprise, it's when it's relevant to world history!).

Era: Islamic World
Duration: 1.5 Weeks (Suggested)
Essential Question: How are religion and culture connected?

State standards for this unit include:

7.4 Describe the expansion of Muslim rule through conquests and the spread of cultural diffusion of Islam and the Arabic language. (C, E, G, H)

7.5 Trace the origins of Islam and the life and teachings of Muhammad, including Islam’s historical connections to Judaism and Christianity. (C, H)

7.6 Explain the significance of the Qur’an and the Sunnah as the primary sources of Islamic beliefs, practice, and law and their influence in Muslims’ daily life. (C, H, P)

7.7 Analyze the origins and impact of different sects within Islam, Sunnis and Shi’ites. (C, H)

7.8 Examine and summarize the contributions Muslim scholars made to later civilizations in the areas of science, geography, mathematics, philosophy, medicine, art, and literature. (C, G, H)

This all sounds pretty standard to me. I remember the same things in my Catholic schools. To ignore this would be to pretend that certain parts of history didn't happen. The kids would have huge gaps in their macrohistorical understanding of the development of civilization.

 

[pat34lee]

No. It's the way he talks about himself... "I'm the greatest, I'm the best, Nobody does that as good as me, I know more about that than anybody ever, Nobody could ever be better than me." I've just never heard an adult talk like that.

Muhammad Ali

 

[pat34lee]

My spouse is a history teacher, and has a great many of these texts. Certainly a better and more objective source of information than WND and 'Proclaiming Justice to the Nations'.

Locally, it's possible, I guess.

 

[Cearbhall]

Except they don't teach about Christianity at the schools around here

I can't speak for Britain, but here are some of the things that 7th graders are required to learn about Christianity in the school district in question:

7.37 Examine the spread of Christianity north of the Alps and the roles played by the early church and by monasteries in its diffusion after the fall of the western half of the Roman Empire.

7.39 Explain the importance of the Catholic church as a political, intellectual, and aesthetic institution, including founding of universities, political and spiritual roles of the clergy, creation of monastic and mendicant religious orders, preservation of the Latin language and religious texts, Thomas Aquinas’s synthesis of classical philosophy with Christian theology and the concept of “natural law.”

7.51 Explain the institution and impact of missionaries on Christianity and the diffusion of Christianity from Europe to other parts of the world in the medieval and early modern periods.

7.52 Locate and identify the European regions that remained Catholic and those that became Protestant and how the division affected the distribution of religions in the New World.

7.53 Explain the heightened influence of the Catholic Church, the growth of literacy, the spread of printed books, the explosion of knowledge and the Church’s reaction to these developments.

7.54 List and explain the significance of the causes for the internal turmoil within and eventual weakening of the Catholic Church including tax policies, selling of indulgences, and England’s break with the Catholic Church.

7.55 Outline the reasons for the growing discontent with the Catholic Church, including the main ideas of Martin Luther (salvation by faith), John Calvin (predestination), Desiderius Erasmus (free will), and William Tyndale (translating the Bible into English), and their attempts to reconcile what they viewed as God’s word with Church action.

7.56 Engage effectively in collaborative discussions explaining Protestants’ new practices of church self-government and the influence of those practices on the development of democratic practices and ideas of federalism.

7.57 Analyze how the Catholic Counter-Reformation revitalized the Catholic Church and the forces that fostered the movement, including St. Ignatius of Loyola and the Jesuits, and the Council of Trent.

Primary Documents and Supporting Texts to Read: excerpts from “Ninety-Five Theses”, Martin Luther

I wonder if the parents who complained will feel that the religious freedoms of the school's non-Christian students are being violated...hmm...

 

[keith99]

Muhammad Ali

But he did tend to limit his claim to the ring and his poetry. I don't recall him claiming to be a better football player than Jim Plunkett or Jim Brown.

 

[MrSpikey]

My nieces and nephews all attend state schools in various parts of Britain and not one of them have ever had a daily act of Christian worship. NOT ONE. When I went to school we used to have assembly with hymns and a Bible reading but it seems not any more so I don't know where you get your information from and just for the record I don't like being called a liar.

My source of information is this thing called "the law". If what you state is true, you should demand answers from the headmaster immediately as to why they are breaking the law on a daily basis, and seek action from Ofsted or maybe your local MP. Please keep me informed as to how it works out, as it is very concerned that multiple state schools around the country are apparently ignoring the law. If what you are saying is true, of course...

Tell the woman who worked for the airlines who was sacked because she refused to remove the cross around her neck since the airline felt it might offend non Christians, tell her that it's not illegal.

Wearing a crucifix is not a requirement of being a christian. They had a dress code and felt she violated it. It wasn't illegal, as that would require it to be in violation of a law. Company policy is not the law.

You might also include the council worker who had a cross hanging from his rearview mirror and was told he had to remove it.

Who owned that vehicle?

While you're at it include the nurse who offered, didn't actually pray, but offered to pray for the recovery of a patient she was sacked too.

Why do you think someone has the right to bring up their religion in the workplace as part of their job?

It has been documented that Muslim medical staff are allowed to wear their headscarves in the OR, these headscarves have not been sterilized.

Well, obviously you have a link for me that shows this, then? Which tenet of Islam do you think prohibits wearing a sterile headscarf alongside other sterile OR gear?

Apart from the media reports on this my sister is a nurse and she has voiced her concerns about the lack of sterile garments in the OR for a long time.

Oh, well, if your sister said it, then it must be true.

I'll also add that Christians are the ones being discriminated against in Britain

So some people claim. Yet to see it myself, though.

you might want to Google that along with the Sharia courts that are allowed to operate in matters of inheritance and child custody even though Islamic law in these cases go against British law.

No need. Sharia courts operate in the UK. For a case to be heard in these courts, both parties must agree to the case being heard there, and the judgement cannot overrule UK law - just the same as the beth din courts for jewish law.

I have trouble believing your are British because we are all well aware of these facts.

No, "we" aren't well aware of these facts. We live in a country where the head of state is also the head of the national brand of christianity, and where senior figures in that religion are automatically given seats in one of the legislative bodies. If you think that is discrimination, you're deluded.

 

[MrSpikey]

There is, but it is a very loosely defined mish mash that whilst supposed to be "broadly Christian" can also include elements of other religions so long as it retains a recognition of Christ having a "special status".
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/281929/Collective_worship_in_schools.pdf

Indeed, this is the nitty gritty detail of it.

But still a daily "broadly Christian" assembly is a requirement, rather than any other religion (or lack thereof).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

“Knowledge about religions is not only a characteristic of an educated person but is necessary for effective and engaged citizenship in a diverse nation and world. Religious literacy dispels stereotypes, promotes cross-cultural understanding and encourages respect for the rights of others to religious liberty.”

Or not.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is exactly how they slip Shia law into America. They get us all cozy with Islam and the one day, the Islam prayers are being blasted in your neighborhood and you are arrested if you are not at the mosque.

Worse yet, the building of an Islamic mosque is a territorial claim on the surrounding land, and the people, for the worship of and obedience to, Allah.

I wonder if they teach that.

 

[MrsBrit]

My source of information is this thing called "the law". If what you state is true, you should demand answers from the headmaster immediately as to why they are breaking the law on a daily basis, and seek action from Ofsted or maybe your local MP. Please keep me informed as to how it works out, as it is very concerned that multiple state schools around the country are apparently ignoring the law. If what you are saying is true, of course...



Wearing a crucifix is not a requirement of being a christian. They had a dress code and felt she violated it. It wasn't illegal, as that would require it to be in violation of a law. Company policy is not the law.



Who owned that vehicle?



Why do you think someone has the right to bring up their religion in the workplace as part of their job?



Well, obviously you have a link for me that shows this, then? Which tenet of Islam do you think prohibits wearing a sterile headscarf alongside other sterile OR gear?



Oh, well, if your sister said it, then it must be true.



So some people claim. Yet to see it myself, though.



No need. Sharia courts operate in the UK. For a case to be heard in these courts, both parties must agree to the case being heard there, and the judgement cannot overrule UK law - just the same as the beth din courts for jewish law.



No, "we" aren't well aware of these facts. We live in a country where the head of state is also the head of the national brand of christianity, and where senior figures in that religion are automatically given seats in one of the legislative bodies. If you think that is discrimination, you're deluded.

I believe I posted links to these statements scroll through the comments. Just for the record WE that would be the people who are British are all aware of what is happening to our country. The only reasons I can think of for you to dispute this is that you're either an immigrant or you're one of these people who loves to argue. I haven't been on this forum for three years so I'm not familiar with you.
Try listening to the news once in a while, read the newspapers, talk to your neighbours, talk to the handful of people who do attend Church these days and perhaps take a drive through one of the no go areas but then I doubt that you really are British. I've given you links I'm not going to look up every doubt you have you can manage to do that yourself.

 

[MrsBrit]

I assure you, if you crack open one of their history or social studies textbooks, you will read about Christianity.

That's called not allowing the government to promote any religion, which is exactly what the angry parents are concerned about. They want to make sure that religion is not being promoted, and it's a fair concern. Of course, the problem is that they aren't seeing the difference between learning about a religion and being taught to practice it. This difference is why students do learn about Christianity in history but don't sing songs that praise baby Jesus.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the US is regarded as a Christian country based on Christian beliefs. Not so many years ago children did sing Christmas carols in school, were allowed to pass out red and green pencils or other items with Christmas themes. "In God We Trust" was on the last dollar bill I examined. It was Ronald Reagan who said "if we ever forget that we are one nation under God then we'll be a nation gone under" I believe he was referring to Christianity. Slowly, slowly Christianity is being erased, Walgreens advertising "holiday items" not Christmas but holiday for what is a Christian celebration. I've seen this happen in Britain and I see the same thing happening here. When we lose our traditions and heritage we lose part of our identity as a nation.

 

[Armoured]

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the US is regarded as a Christian country

No. They explicitly aren't. The majesty of Americans are self identified Christians, so it is a majority Christian country, but it doesn't endorse Christianity as a state religion, by law.

 

[Arcangl86]

I can't speak for Britain, but here are some of the things that 7th graders are required to learn about Christianity in the school district in question:












I wonder if the parents who complained will feel that the religious freedoms of the school's non-Christian students are being violated...hmm...

Now mind you 7th grade was a looong time ago, but I'm fairly positive i didn't even learn that much in my Catholic grade school.

 

[Cearbhall]

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the US is regarded as a Christian country based on Christian beliefs.

Alright, I'll correct you. You're wrong.

Not so many years ago children did sing Christmas carols in school, were allowed to pass out red and green pencils or other items with Christmas themes.

Yes, because there wasn't enough diversity for there to be a fuss about it.

Before the era of mass communication, U.S. towns were more provincial and were relatively unchecked in their decision-making. School norms conformed to the local culture, which in most areas was Christian. The main divide was between Christian denominations, especially Catholic vs. Protestant, which is a big reason why we have such a huge network of Catholic schools and universities here (I personally attended Catholic institutions from age 4 to age 22).