Protestants: Do denominations matter?

[sunlover1]

It should be so obvious: Those pushing for gay clergy obviously feel it's important, else they'd not be pushing for it. Those against it feel it's important - some so much that they're leaving the church.

You mean leaving that denomination?

And yet at the same time Protestants are saying it doesn't matter, because we're all part of an invisible church.

I didnt see anyone saying that doctrine "doesnt matter"
Everything 'matters', but we are dealing with how men respond
to the almighty God, and there are going to be some misunderstandings..
EVEN in your own denomination, no?
We dont have it all right, none of us, even you, and we can sit and point
fingers at the protestant denominations all day, but the problem is not
a 'protestant' problem, it's a heart issue... and we ALL have one of those,
no matter what the sign on the door says

1 Corinthians 12:13
"For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—
whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all
given the one Spirit to drink."​

​

The reason we have ended up split into sects and denominations
is because not all obey the next verse.

Said a mouthful there... true, because not all obey His Word or His Voice.
Bottom Line

Ephesians 4:30
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you
were sealed for the day of redemption."

When our own word becomes greater than God's Word, the Spirit is grieved.
While we refuse correction from God's Word the Spirit is being grieved.​

Pride rearing its ugly head. Scripture says such and such but I believe this other
way and nobody is going to tell me differently... Pride.
Foolish pride.
And we all know what comes behind pride... destruction.

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​

[/size][/size][/left]

Yep . Traditions - such as sola scriptura and placing the "bible" as the only authority can do much harm . Since the Spirit is the only authority , He certainly will be grieved at ignoring of His voice and depending on how one understands books .​

He is the only authority!
That's why we call Him GOD!
And we should obey His Word that we might not sin against Him.
And in order to obey it, we must understand it and to understand
it , we need to read, study and meditate on it.

14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord
not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God,
a worker who does not need to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and idle babblings,
for they will increase to more ungodliness.
17 And their message will spread like cancer.

The first churches didn't have the bible .​

They had scripture, it's what they taught from, just like today.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

The Church is still one . People can atempt to split her with bibles...

Dude!
​

Guns don't kill people..
People kill people

New International Version (©1984)
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God.
​

 

[GenemZ]

Yep . Traditions - such as sola scriptura and placing the "bible" as the only authority can do much harm.​

The Bible is not the only authority in our lives. Its the final authority.

Since the Spirit is the only authority , He certainly will be grieved at ignoring of His voice and depending on how one understands books .

Books? What books?
​

The first churches didn't have the bible .​

The first church had all of the OT and was growing in the New. Hebrews 3 through Hebrews 4:12, quotes and refers solely to OT Scriptures. What were those OT passages said to be to the new Church?

"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper
than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to
dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges
the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

​

That verse was referring to all the OT Scriptures that had just preceded in what was written. Those passages from the OT having been made alive and active by the indwelling Holy Spirit in the believer! Read Hebrews 3 -4 for yourself. Its all about passages found in the OT. The early church had enough Bible for their needs at that time.

The Church is still one . People can atempt to split her with bibles and traditions and sects . But , the Lord will keep her .​

Who is saying otherwise? Your point is? I still do not get what's bugging you. You seem to have taken the word "split" to an extreme. Yet, we are split as far as what we believe and think. Members in that one universal church are split in what they want to believe versus what God would have them to believe. In the last election in America the people were split over who they voted for. But, we are still one nation.
​

In the early days of the church, the NT was first being put into writing and was incomplete. What the church had been given to pull them through until it could all be put in writing were the spiritual gifts of Apostle and prophet. Those gifts brought forth the needed new thoughts of the church age directly to the people by means of oral teaching via an anointed enabling.


In Christ, GeneZ



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​

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Anyway , "we" as in Christians are not split in any way . We are all a part of the Church .​

Such is the Protestant position.

​

Yep . Traditions - such as sola scriptura and placing the "bible" as the only authority can do much harm . Since the Spirit is the only authority , He certainly will be grieved at ignoring of His voice and depending on how one understands books .

Lost me....

Sola Scriptura is the epistemological praxis in norming of embracing Scripture as the Rule/Canon/norma normans.

God certainly is the final authority - but since few seem to hear God in infallible ways that everyone accepts, His written word (Scripture) that we ALL can read and none can alter and that has a firm, historic, ecumencial embrace might be a better Canon than each person or each denomination (such as the RCC or LDS) "hearing" God speak to itself (alone) directly in inaudiable and ways that self alone declares that self only "hears" infallibly.

The first churches didn't have the bible .

They did have Scripture. We've had it since Moses came down the Mountain - and it has been the Norma Normans since then.

The first Christains also didn't have any denomination. Not the RCC or LDS or any other that alone claims Jesus founded it alone.
​

The Church is still one .

No Pope has been able to change that reality. In spite of the excommunications, in spite of various popes causing new denominations - the church was, is and ever will be one, holy and catholic. That's the Protestant position.
​

​

​

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[trevorlewthor]

Of course denominations matter. Every thoughtful Christians take positions on issues (like baptism, for example) that make it difficult to be in the same Christian denomination as others. This doesn't mean they cannot work together if they agree on core issues (like the Nicene Creed, for example), but it does mean that some positions are ultimately irreconcilable with others.

 

[sunlover1]

... but it does mean that some positions are ultimately irreconcilable with others.

Hi trevor.
Isnt that concept at odds with Scripture?
What might remedy that (iyo) ?
Would you consider those 'denominations' or groups,
that you cannot 'reconcile' with, to be heretics?

Thanks,
sunlover

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

i get a sense that denominations are simply a way for man to feel like he's in control of something: namely doctrine. it helps them reduce God into something manageable and tangible.

go cards

 

[GenemZ]

Of course denominations matter. Every thoughtful Christians take positions on issues (like baptism, for example) that make it difficult to be in the same Christian denomination as others. This doesn't mean they cannot work together if they agree on core issues (like the Nicene Creed, for example), but it does mean that some positions are ultimately irreconcilable with others.

Idealism can never replace righteousness and holiness.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires,
they will gather around them a great number of
teachers to say what their itching
ears want to hear."​

Believers of different denominations may very well work together in an emergency situation like a flood, war, etc...
But work together in the Spirit? No.



The Spirit is supposed to be the one who guides us into all truth (John 16:13). If the Spirit had his way with all believers? There would be no denominational differences. That's the point you are missing. Believers can be one according to the flesh. That is not what God seeks. He seeks unity in the Spirit! The Nicene creed is simply agreeing upon foundational basic doctrine. The life Christ called us into is a life of having Bible doctrine for every area of our lives. Certain truths are presented in the Bible as tests to see if we are to be honest before God when tradition and the Word are in conflict.

2 Corinthians 13:11
"Finally, brothers, good-by. Aim for perfection, listen to my
appeal, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love
and peace will be with you."


​

Be of one mind? That just will not happen because 2 Timothy 4:3 states that many men will not endure the teaching of sound doctrine. They will seek out a great number of teachers to tell them what it is they would rather hear instead of the truth. These many teachers are opportunists who will tell the people what their itching ears want to hear.


Jesus warned that when it comes to finding all the needed truth that makes you free? That only a few out of all who believe will seek the true way to endure the pressures of resistance that come to those who want to know Christ in depth. He said plainly, only a few will find it.

Matthew 7:13-15
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter
through it. But (strait) small (self limiting) is the gate and
narrow (under pressure) the road that leads to life, and only
a few find it. "Watch out for false prophets. They come
to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly
they are ferocious wolves."
​

That is not a declaration of having myself arrived. Its simply my acceptance that what Jesus said is the truth. Most today are wandering off the strict (strait) way to finding life. They are avoiding the pressures of the narrow way. Most want wide open spaces. Wanting what they feel most comfortable with. Few are willing to endure the intake of sound doctrine. Hence, few will find it.


Matthew 7:13-15 is truth we find today working among many believers who are all going in a thousand different directions. These ones choose the broad and wide way of possibilities. Ways that appeals to their natural way of seeing things. This equals many denominations!

In contrast.. Jesus said that the way that leads to life is to beunder pressure by being resisted. But, it does not remain that way forever. For it eventually leads to finding life. "Life more abundantly."

Another area that is not well understood.. The word translated strait meant strict, not straight. For the means by which we find Christ through his written word is by a very careful and exacting means of analyzing what we find in Scripture. Some confuse that with being stupidly stubborn about what they think its saying. Never bending to change one's mind. They wrongly call it 'conviction.' To properly analyze Scripture it should be left to those with the gift, not to those who have the gift to know how to twist what is written to appeal to the ears of others wanting to be told something is so.

Jesus said those who find this narrow way will find life. The life more abundantly that Jesus came to give those who believe in him. Those who do not find it have settled for the comfort of human security. Some of these on the broad and wide way may act like they have joy when they really do not have it. They put on an act of joy as to "sell Christ" to the world. They feel its their duty to act happy and cheerful when in reality they are sad and feeling empty. These ones have yet to find the truth that will make them free.


In Christ, GeneZ



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[GenemZ]

Deleted... It inadvertently turned into a hijack potentially.




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[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Wow. I believe Pujols will surpass Musial in every category.

go cards

 

[racer]

Montalban,

We are all parts of the Body of Christ. Ask yourself these questions: Do the feet of a body perform the same function as the hands? Does the brain perform the same function as the heart? Do toes perform the same function as fingers? The answer to all these questions is no. Even though each seaparate part of the body is different from every other, they still all join together to form the whole. In that way the Body is unified and in communion with itself.

 

[sunlover1]

i get a sense that denominations are simply a way for man to feel like he's in control of something: namely doctrine. it helps them reduce God into something manageable and tangible.

go cards

Amen.
We've truly missed the point havent we? lol.
The enemy is never going to stop working to keep
men at odds with each other.
[SIZE=+1]Gen 11:6 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]And the LORD said, Behold, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]the people is one[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], and they have
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]all one language[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]; and this [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]they begin to do[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]imagined [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]to do. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE]

Montalban,

We are all parts of the Body of Christ. Ask yourself these questions: Do the feet of a body perform the same function as the hands? Does the brain perform the same function as the heart? Do toes perform the same function as fingers? The answer to all these questions is no. Even though each seaparate part of the body is different from every other, they still all join together to form the whole. In that way the Body is unified and in communion with itself.

Amen, we all have different functions in the body. You didnt mean that
each denomination is as a different body part right?

 

[BrightCandle]

Revelation 14:12 describes the defining characterists of God's last day church. Here it is in a variety of translations. Note, in the preceding verses of Rev. 14 8-11, those who worship the sea beast and its image will drink the wine of the God's judgment. The key point in the texts copied below is this: Those who are lost must not be keeping God's commandments, even though they may profess faith in Jesus. We know that Jesus described this type of Christian when he said that "many will call me Lord", but He will tell them that I never knew you".


New International Version (©1984)
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

International Standard Version (©2008)
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to their faithfulness in Jesus:

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In this situation God's holy people, who obey his commands and keep their faith in Jesus, need endurance.

King James Bible
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

American King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

American Standard Version
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Darby Bible Translation
Here is the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

English Revised Version
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Weymouth New Testament
Here is an opportunity for endurance on the part of God's people, who carefully keep His commandments and the faith of Jesus!"

World English Bible
Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Young's Literal Translation
Here is endurance of the saints: here are those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

 

[GenemZ]

Revelation 14:12 describes the defining characterists of God's last day church. Here it is in a variety of translations. Note, in the preceding verses of Rev. 14 8-11, those who worship the sea beast and its image will drink the wine of the God's judgment. The key point in the texts copied below is this: Those who are lost must not be keeping God's commandments, even though they may profess faith in Jesus. We know that Jesus described this type of Christian when he said that "many will call me Lord", but He will tell them that I never knew you".


New International Version (©1984)
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

International Standard Version (©2008)
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to their faithfulness in Jesus:

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In this situation God's holy people, who obey his commands and keep their faith in Jesus, need endurance.

King James Bible
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

American King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

American Standard Version
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Darby Bible Translation
Here is the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

English Revised Version
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Weymouth New Testament
Here is an opportunity for endurance on the part of God's people, who carefully keep His commandments and the faith of Jesus!"

World English Bible
Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Young's Literal Translation
Here is endurance of the saints: here are those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

The Church is not going to be here for Revelation 14. That passage speaks of saints saved during the Tribulation. We (the Church) will be in heaven at that time being made ready as the Bride of Christ for his return.


Grace and peace, GeneZ

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[Albion]

i get a sense that denominations are simply a way for man to feel like he's in control of something: namely doctrine. it helps them reduce God into something manageable and tangible.

I don't. In the overwhelming number of cases, new denominations are the result of honest differences, usually over Bible interpretation. Sometimes, they occur for nothing more sinister than a dispute over the church's constitutiotn or the application of it.

But the problem with this thread IMO is that the question isn't worded very tighly. Do denominations matter? Well, matter HOW?

I'd say that denominations matter if you are contemplating joining some crazy splinter group with unorthodox theology. It could matter, yes, unless you actually like the idea of purple kool-aid. But that doesn't mean that every other denomination has to be sorted through to find the "one and only."

So we might better say that denominationalism doesn't matter, that the fact that there are many denominations doesn't matter in principle...because being a disciple of Christ is what matters. But sure, if one is going to make a very weird and inappropriate choice of denomination that could lead to problems in many ways, then it could matter which choice of church you made.

 

[seashale76]

If Protestants believe that they're all part of the one invisible church, does this mean that the actual 'denomination' they're in doesn't matter?

It doesn't matter unless one is Catholic or Orthodox. Ask my mom, she'll tell you. I heard more than I wanted to about how offended she was at my cousin's Catholic wedding today about the horrors of closed communion and how they shouldn't even invite non-Catholics to weddings if they can't have communion. I also heard that they pray too much and stood and sat too much. According to her- just one prayer at the end- by a pastor who is good with off the cuff stuff and is a good orator- is more than adequate.

I didn't have the heart to tell her that if she thought that was bad, she should be glad she opted to leave immediately after my Chrismation and not stay for Divine Liturgy on Holy Saturday a few years ago.

However, she's a-okay with the occasional Calvinist stomping into Baptist territory so long as they're relatively quiet about it- and the folks at her church are pretty accepting of her Arminian tendencies so long as she's relatively quiet about them.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Denominations matter to differing degrees among all Christians. In every denomination you will find those who have no interest whatsoever in denominations and, consequently, are generally ignorant and unconcerned about the beliefs of their own denomination. At the other end of the spectrum I do not know a single denomination that does not contain individuals who sincerely believe that their denomination is God's one and only True Church and that everyone outside of it is facing eternal damnation. The vast majority (this includes not only Protestants, but Catholics and Orthodox as well) fall somewhere between the two ends of the spectrum.

 

[christianmomof3]

If Protestants believe that they're all part of the one invisible church, does this mean that the actual 'denomination' they're in doesn't matter?

I hope the church is not invisible.
There is the universal church composed of all members of the Body of Christ - past, present and future; and there are the local churches.

For instance there's some very small Protestant churches in the USA (perhaps elsewhere too?) that handle snakes in their services. They feel that the 'form' of their worship matters, and thus choose to stay together.

I think they are mentally not quite stable.

To be in the church one must be in Christ. For it is His people who are His Church.

Excepting not every offering is pleasing to the Lord.

true

sorry brother, I kinda got lost in this thread, what are we even talking about now?

i agree.

Montalban,

We are all parts of the Body of Christ. Ask yourself these questions: Do the feet of a body perform the same function as the hands? Does the brain perform the same function as the heart? Do toes perform the same function as fingers? The answer to all these questions is no. Even though each seaparate part of the body is different from every other, they still all join together to form the whole. In that way the Body is unified and in communion with itself.

That is true. Each individual member of the Body has a different function. However, I don't think that the Lord ever intended for or even now wants His Body to be divided. And the many denominations do divide the Body. That is sad.

 

[BrightCandle]

The Church is not going to be here for Revelation 14. That passage speaks of saints saved during the Tribulation. We (the Church) will be in heaven at that time being made ready as the Bride of Christ for his return.


Grace and peace, GeneZ

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You obviously hold the view of the Jesuit inspired prophetic interpretation otherwise known as Futurism. SDAs hold the view given to us by the Reformers of the 16th century, namely, Historicist. Which view do think is inspired? The view originated by the Jesuits, but is now held by the majority of Protestants and Evangelicas, who have reinvented it and renamed it Dispensationalism, or the view of those who were inspired by God to bring up out of the darkness of the Papacy? Futurism and Preterism are most deadly of deceptions as they blind those who are now living as to what prophecies are being fulfilled before their very eyes.

 

[Rhamiel]

You obviously hold the view of the Jesuit inspired prophetic interpretation otherwise known as Futurism. SDAs hold the view given to us by the Reformers of the 16th century, namely, Historicist. Which view do think is inspired? The view originated by the Jesuits, but is now held by the majority of Protestants and Evangelicas, who have reinvented it and renamed it Dispensationalism, or the view of those who were inspired by God to bring up out of the darkness of the Papacy? Futurism and Preterism are most deadly of deceptions as they blind those who are now living as to what prophecies are being fulfilled before their very eyes.

I trust the Jesuits

 

[BrightCandle]

I trust the Jesuits

In light of the long and dark history of the Jesuits, how could anyone trust the Jesuits?