Protestant errors and inventions (3)

[Root of Jesse]

Except for a handful of feminist activists that the church pays no mind to, there is no discussion about ordaining women. The idea of rescinding the prohibition against married male priests in the Latin rite is almost certain to come down in the future. But there is a serious doctrinal problem with the first, whereas there is none with the second.

Why do you think the Latin Rite will allow married male priests? The Catholic Church has never allowed priests to marry. They have allowed married men to become priests, but there's a problem, even with that. The Church expects her priests to be able to answer the call of the faithful at any time...

 

[1Co13]

And you think marriage would cure a deviate mind? I think such a man would have done it married or single.

No but child abusers are drawn to the Priest hood because they seek potions of power over children like a teaching position for example, and they can hide in the ranks of the unmarried priests, and celibacy is unnecessary any way, the celibacy thing is suppose to glorify Gods name but instead it ends up shaming it. Im sorry for the harsh words but i know no other way to say it.

 

[Albion]

Why do you think the Latin Rite will allow married male priests?

1. Priest shortage
2. Not a doctrinal problem
3. Pope Francis's recent comments

The Catholic Church has never allowed priests to marry.

And I didn't suggest a change in that. I see what you're thinking, however.

I agree that the change, if it comes, will mean those who marry before ordination will be accepted. I do not foresee allowing those who have already taken vows of celibacy to back out of it.

They have allowed married men to become priests, but there's a problem, even with that. The Church expects her priests to be able to answer the call of the faithful at any time...

Sure, but the clergy of every other Christian church expects about as much and they are managing. I don't doubt that some weighing of pros and cons will take place, but I'm confident that the church will approve the policy change.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Right. The idea of a Christian clergy/laity dichotomy is simply the Sinai model brought forward and combined with later ever-virgin ideas of both Mary and Joseph.

Well, that's imaginative. Completely wrong, but imaginative.

Sounds like someone needs to read up on their church history. Might I make a few recommendations?

 

[Root of Jesse]

1. Priest shortage
2. Not a doctrinal problem
3. Pope Francis's recent comments


And I didn't suggest a change in that. I see what you're thinking, however.

I agree that the change, if it comes, will mean those who marry before ordination will be accepted. I do not foresee allowing those who have already taken vows of celibacy to back out of it.


Sure, but the clergy of every other Christian church expects about as much and they are managing. I don't doubt that some weighing of pros and cons will take place, but I'm confident that the church will approve the policy change.

I don't think there's really a priest shortage. There are very few parishes here without a priest. While I realize this isn't true worldwide, many priests come from third-world countries. I agree, it's not a doctrinal problem. It's a discipline that exists for a reason and in this case the reasons are as ancient as the Church. They also happen to be very good reasons, pastorally and prudentially.

Just because the issue may become a topic of discussion within the Vatican does not mean change will happen anytime soon. The Catholic Church is not resistant to change, but is extremely judicious, so changes tend to be gradual and very carefully considered.

If a change happens, it will be the result of careful deliberation, pastoral and prayerful contemplation. This may not occur during the tenure of Pope Francis, in fact, it is unlikely to happen so soon, even from a Pope who seems full of surprises to the uninformed.

Pope Francis may approach the subject differently from his most recent predecessors, but that does not make him radical in any sense. While the media may hype him as overturning tables within the Vatican Pope Francis is doing no such thing.

Instead, he is simply reaffirming ancient and wise theological insights and leading by his personal example.

I doubt that any change will be forthcoming during this pontificate...

 

[Albion]

I don't think there's really a priest shortage.

Well, your church seems to think there is, and I agree with it. Most parishes are covered now, but many are understaffed and have had to press members of religious order into parish work, rely upon foreign clergy, and make greater use of deacons. All of that may make the crisis seem less severe than it is. There is no way of denying, however, that there has been a terrific drop off in vocations in the last several generations.

Just because the issue may become a topic of discussion within the Vatican does not mean change will happen anytime soon. The Catholic Church is not resistant to change, but is extremely judicious, so changes tend to be gradual and very carefully considered.

If a change happens, it will be the result of careful deliberation, pastoral and prayerful contemplation. This may not occur during the tenure of Pope Francis, in fact, it is unlikely to happen so soon, even from a Pope who seems full of surprises to the uninformed.

You asked my opinion and mine is that--for several reasons--it's coming. It may not be tomorrow, however, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happens, perhaps in a limited way, within the next 15 or 20 years. On the other hand, if Francis' tenure is short and a conservative succeeds him, that could set the process back.

 

[Rick Otto]

Sounds like someone needs to read up on their church history. Might I make a few recommendations?

While that would be mighty wide of ya, how bout just enough of the Cliff's Notes to substantiate your contrary opinion.
Call me maniacal, but I see a parallel.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Thats false doctrine. Paul didn't forbid marriage to any Christian or Church leader.

It's not doctrine, it's practise. Rather like asking a person to pass a set of courses at a university or at a bible college before ordaining them or expecting a Baptist pastor who ceases to believe in and practise credobaptism to cease being a Baptist pastor.

 

[tadoflamb]

You mean a connection or a bond, not a marriage in the usual sense.

No, I mean a marriage. Given the protestant understanding of Church and marriage I can see why you might struggle with the concept.

In this particular discussion, it's only the Roman Catholics who seem to be conflicted, trying to make this innovation seem like it's something other than just a church invention.

There's no confliction. The celibacy of the priesthood is based on the celibacy of Christ. But, again, given what protestants have done to the Sacrament of Matrimony, it's easy to see why they would have a problem with this.

 

[1Co13]

It's not doctrine, it's practise.

There is no practice outside scripture, if its a practice then its built on scripture which is doctrine. The RC misunderstands Paul's doctrine that its built on.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No, I mean a marriage. Given the protestant understanding of Church and marriage I can see why you might struggle with the concept.

There's no confliction. The celibacy of the priesthood is based on the celibacy of Christ. But, again, given what protestants have done to the Sacrament of Matrimony, it's easy to see why they would have a problem with this.

It's just the scripture teaches that elders are to be a man of one wife and that his children are to be above reproach it is prefaced that if he cannot take care of his own household how much more the household of God?

furthermore it is taught that the forbidding to marry is a doctrine of demons . so forbidding priests to marry not only ignores biblical instruction on who an elder is, it seems to be taking on the appearance of another sort of evil i'd imagine unintended by the Roman Catholic Church . yet the scripture does instruct us to abstain from the appearance of evil .

but if you allowed both then that would be more traditional and according to Paul's model .

 

[Rev Randy]

Why do you think the Latin Rite will allow married male priests? The Catholic Church has never allowed priests to marry. They have allowed married men to become priests, but there's a problem, even with that. The Church expects her priests to be able to answer the call of the faithful at any time...

There is some validity to that point. But a man being married is not as hindered as it's promoted. The Roman Church did well with married and celibate priest working together for many years.
I agree they will never allow priest to marry but I'm thinking the will eventually allow married men to be ordained. Seems they've already opened that door with the anglo-rite.But that's just a guess. It would depend on how the pope speaks on it. I'm quite sure your last Pope would not have but I'm not so sure about the current one.
Do you have any history of why the church stopped ordaining married men?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you have any history of why the church stopped ordaining married men?

one Catholic related it to me that a number of women in europe were getting pregnant from the priests .

 

[MoreCoffee]

There is no practice outside scripture

Sure there is! You posted the quote above "outside scripture" didn't you?

, if its a practice then its built on scripture which is doctrine.

Nonsense! Having a shower and using an antiperspirant is a practise and it is not doctrine.

The RC misunderstands Paul's doctrine that its built on.

Catholic teaching is far more reliable than opinions offered ad hoc on a discussion board and all the above post is offering is ad hoc opinions.

 

[1Co13]

Sure there is! You posted the quote above "outside scripture" didn't you?
Nonsense! Having a shower and using an antiperspirant is a practise and it is not doctrine.

No its not because its not against sound doctrine. Everything is established and judged by scripture.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

i think this discussion offers an angle not discussed here yet

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=555434

 

[MoreCoffee]

No its not because its not against sound doctrine. Everything is established and judged by scripture.

Nope. Everything is not established and judged by scripture. In fact the number of books in your bible is neither established nor judged by scripture. So the foundation that you want to build upon - namely, the assertion that Everything is established and judged by scripture -is not scriptural itself nor is the list of books that you count as scripture established by the principle that you enunciated. Nobody need fear the rules expressed in your post.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

There is no practice outside scripture, if its a practice then its built on scripture which is doctrine. The RC misunderstands Paul's doctrine that its built on.

Um, do you drive to church? Use paper or electronic media in church? Does your congregation set times for regular worship?

 

[1Co13]

Nope. Everything is not established and judged by scripture. In fact the number of books in your bible is neither established nor judged by scripture. So the foundation that you want to build upon - namely, the assertion that Everything is established and judged by scripture -is not scriptural itself nor is the list of books that you count as scripture established by the principle that you enunciated. Nobody need fear the rules expressed in your post.

In the church age, after the apostles completed their task of establishing the Church everything is judged against scripture.


2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 ¶ But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[1Co13]

Um, do you drive to church? Use paper or electronic media in church? Does your congregation set times for regular worship?

I worship God in spirit and truth. I concern myself with my temple.