Protestant errors and inventions (3)

[Rev Randy]

I'm not sure, maybe he had his own church in mind, it doesn't matter because scripture and the holy spirit teach truth and he needs no denomination. The body being the temple and spirit being teacher isn't an analogy, its the reality and the building is the analogy.

I kinda think he was just posting some early Church history which had no denominations.

 

[1Co13]

I kinda think he was just posting some early Church history which had no denominations.

ok, my bad.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Protestant Error and invention : the bible replacing the pope in function .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Protestant error and invention : senior pastor replacing role of pope

(P.S. where's the catholic thread so i can comment on the error of there being a pope? )

 

[Albion]

Protestant error and invention : senior pastor replacing role of pope

(P.S. where's the catholic thread so i can comment on the error of there being a pope? )

Hmmm. I'd be interested to meet a senior pastor on whom his church has conferred infallibility.

 

[Standing Up]

I kinda think he was just posting some early Church history which had no denominations.

Re the canon, there are some who think the canon was completed within a few years of John's passing. In Polycarp's letter, some see quotes and allusions to all 27 books. And it's not like the Paul and John would be blind to the situation and not know how it was handled.

Yes, later, there were questions about a variety of books, and it's true others, like John of Damascus, continued to promote their version (he had 28 books). Others wanted CLement of Rome's epistle to be part of the NT, but they too failed.

So, there is a good case for a very early NT passed down from faithful men to faithful men (Athanasius).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hmmm. I'd be interested to meet a senior pastor on whom his church has conferred infallibility.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well, your church seems to think there is, and I agree with it. Most parishes are covered now, but many are understaffed and have had to press members of religious order into parish work, rely upon foreign clergy, and make greater use of deacons. All of that may make the crisis seem less severe than it is. There is no way of denying, however, that there has been a terrific drop off in vocations in the last several generations.


You asked my opinion and mine is that--for several reasons--it's coming. It may not be tomorrow, however, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happens, perhaps in a limited way, within the next 15 or 20 years. On the other hand, if Francis' tenure is short and a conservative succeeds him, that could set the process back.

Actually, religious orders often look at parish work as a way to promote their order. Many of the parishes in San Francisco have been run by religious orders since their inception, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Regarding foreign priests, there's a variety of reasons they come here. Sometimes financial, sometimes because there's no room for them in their home country. And in most parishes they serve in, they're associates. But so be it. FWIW, there's no shortage of vocations where Catholic Orthodoxy is practiced.

You're right, I asked your opinion. I hope you're wrong, and if you're right, I hope it's not in my lifetime. I value our clergy, and don't think they need any more on their plate...

 

[MoreCoffee]

The perseverance of the saints discussed:

FALSE DOCTRINE OF ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED - YouTube

 

[Albion]

Actually, religious orders often look at parish work as a way to promote their order.

Apparently, your policy is that no fact, however true, can be tolerated if it comes from a "non-Catholic." So be it...but the church has a shortage of priests, has said so, and HAD TO address its priest shortage by doing all these things.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I reckon that Catholic priests are in short supply in some areas because training a priest takes a lot of time and effort.

In some non-denominational groups training a pastor doesn't take a lot of time or effort.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Apparently, your policy is that no fact, however true, can be tolerated if it comes from a "non-Catholic." So be it...but the church has a shortage of priests, has said so, and HAD TO address its priest shortage by doing all these things.

That makes me wonder how many RC priests are now converting to the Anglican church or other apostolic churches.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7411153/
Slick move by the Pope to attract Anglicans

Catholic Church turns to Anglicans to fill U.S. priest shortage - CBS News
Catholic Church turns to Anglicans to fill U.S. priest shortage
March 20, 2013 7:25 PM

The number of Roman Catholic priests in the United States has steadily dropped from nearly 59,000 in 1975 to just under 39,000 last year. But the number of Catholics in the United States has increased by 17 million.

Asked if he worries, Kitzke says, "Definitely, yes, we obviously need more priests -- that goes without saying, we need more vocations."............


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[Root of Jesse]

There is some validity to that point. But a man being married is not as hindered as it's promoted. The Roman Church did well with married and celibate priest working together for many years.
I agree they will never allow priest to marry but I'm thinking the will eventually allow married men to be ordained. Seems they've already opened that door with the anglo-rite.But that's just a guess. It would depend on how the pope speaks on it. I'm quite sure your last Pope would not have but I'm not so sure about the current one.
Do you have any history of why the church stopped ordaining married men?

Not real sure, but consider this:
In my diocese, a priest, whether bishop, monsignior, pastor, associate pastor, or auxiliary, earns $25,000 a year. He's expected to live on the grounds of the parish, if he's the pastor, and if not the pastor, has to live where they give him to live. If we were to allow married clergy, do you think a couple could live on that salary, even if they were permitted to live on church property? Also, what does that do to health care costs, insurance, etc?

For practical reasons, I don't see it happening any time soon. I have heard Protestant pastors, who are supposedly full time, needing to take on a second or third job in order to support the family. This does not leave any time for the pastor to pastor.

 

[Albion]

I reckon that Catholic priests are in short supply in some areas because training a priest takes a lot of time and effort.

In some non-denominational groups training a pastor doesn't take a lot of time or effort.

And there are a lot of other reasons that no doubt contribute, but at least you recognize that there IS a shortage.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not really. At least in my neck of the woods offenders in the public school system get both front page exposure in the newspapers and prime time television news coverage and when their cases go to trial the judges throw the books at them. Maybe it is different where you live.

MAybe so, but it's not universal. And I can tell you that, if the teachers are represented by a union, there's union protection, too.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Again, I don't know your situation, but here in my little corner of the world I see billboards with Catholic messages to pray for more "religious". I think "religious" means a noun rather than an adjective - meaning that folks should be praying for more people to join the ranks of the clergy and other religious vocations in the Catholic Church.

Of course we're always to pray for more vocations. Religious means priests, nuns, brothers. We're always supposed to pray for this.

As for a priest shortage, it is very real and not going away. A nearby city once had five thriving Catholic churches with multiple priests serving in each church. Today all five churches have been closed and there is one, new church with one priest serving in a single parish covering the entire city. Either membership has taken a genuine nosedive or there is a priest shortage. Take you pick. Neither scenario is particularly good IMO.

The fact is, this could be because of lack of lay support. Parishes that don't have enough parishioners often close, because it takes money to maintain a parish. It may not be because of lack of priests. I know places where one priest pastors two parishes or more. If there's people to pastor, there's a pastor for the people.

This is not to say there's not a priest shortage. Some of this is due to the shrinking of the typical family. Families that have only two children are seldom willing to offer one to the religious life. Also due to the scandals and the sexual revolution.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And there are a lot of other reasons that no doubt contribute, but at least you recognize that there IS a shortage.

In some places. Not in others.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

So you say, and there still are disputes but that proves nothing. I could establish doctrine with only a few letters and a Gospel. You just need to Justify the Pope and RC.

You really don't know anything about Lutheranism, do you?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I reckon that Catholic priests are in short supply in some areas because training a priest takes a lot of time and effort.

In some non-denominational groups training a pastor doesn't take a lot of time or effort.

Well of course. You just have to feel your spirit touch the Spirit in truth and cleanse yourself of the carnal building structure and the military-industrial complex.

 

[Hentenza]

In some places. Not in others.

Here are statistics published by CARA which is part of Georgetown University.

CARA gets many inquiries from Church agencies and the media about the numbers for vocations, seminary enrollments, priests and vowed religious, parishes, Mass attendance, schools and the Catholic population. Below are some comparative statistics from 1965. Generally, these data reflect the situation at the beginning of the calendar year listed. The sources for this information include The Official Catholic Directory (OCD), the Vatican's Annuarium Statisticum Ecclesiae (ASE), and other CARA research and databases. All data are cross checked as much as possible. For the U.S, the numbers reported here include only figures for those 195 dioceses or eparchies who belong to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. This includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and all U.S. military personnel stationed overseas. This page also includes links to other areas of the CARA website that provide answers to frequently asked questions.

Catholic Data, Catholic Statistics, Catholic Research

A particular statistic that I found interesting is the tremendous increase in permanent deacons in both the US and the rest of the world while the total number of priest in the US dropped dramatically and remained relatively flat for the rest of the world.