Protestant errors and inventions (3)

[Root of Jesse]

I don't look up dictionaries to find out why "a Bible with only 66 books" is allegedly an "error". Nor do I intend to do a search on the Web for catholic answers.
If you don't want to answer my questions just don't do it. I believe the Bible is complete and is composed of 66 books.


"If you continue in My word . . . you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (John 8:31-32).

Because the Bible, as it was presented to the world, has 72 books. Some were stricken by the Protestants after the Revolt.

 

[tadoflamb]

Thank you for the explanation. I need you to explain a couple of things to me if you don't mind. How can you blame protestants for getting rid of the "priest" ministry, when that was done by Christ, and how is prophesizing a protestant error and invention?

The Catholic hierarchal model of bishop/priest/deacon is the model laid down by Christ and is the same model evidenced in the Sacred Scriptures. In my mind, any one who wants to deviate from that plan is saying that Christ has failed in establishing His Church and what they propose is better. Also, given the various protestant options for the ministerial priesthood and the three-fold ministry and the resulting contradictions, I can't see how their substitutes are any better.

As to prophesizing, while by the virtue of our baptism we are all given the office of priest, prophet and king the age of prophecy is over. Specifically, I'm talking about the practice of laying one's hands on a person's head and 'prophesizing' over them. Perhaps this is a practice of the so-called fringe groups, but to me it exhibits a lack of faith in God's divine providence.

Hope that helps.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Because the Bible, as it was presented to the world, has 72 books. Some were stricken by the Protestants after the Revolt.

Yes, the Catholic Bible was presented to the world by the Council of Trent which set the number of books at 72. As we all know, the Council of Trent was the first major volley by the Catholic Church against the Reformation. It was impossible for Protestants to strike 6 books from the Bible given the fact that until the Council of Trent the number of books in the Bible had not been officially determined by the Catholic Church.

 

[Serpentslayer]

Christianity existed before Roman Catholic Church and before the Protestant movements.

When we start comparing the two that came up later, we not doing Christianity as a whole justice?

I think any spiritually minded person would justifiably say that benchmarking Christianity to what the Catholics believe compared to what the Protestants believe is brought up in ignorance of the fact that the only true churches that existed outside of these two, was the church of Babylon who were in close cultural Semitic ties with their Jewish Apostle counterparts. The church of Babylon are the orthodox churches in the Middle East before the influences of Roman Catholic Church corrupted them to their ecclesiastical ways.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

This message that is sent by Saint Peter to their other Semitic cultural counterparts is the church of Babylon predating the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant movements. In fact before Saint Peter even considered to baptise the Gentile believers that he considered were the pagans from Europe (Acts 10) Saint Peter would comfortably baptise the church of Babylon.

Now Roman Catholic Church may set itself to be the only church through its papacy but this entity had not even been existent before the Orthodox Church's in the Middle East.

For the Roman Catholic Church to testify that they are truly Christian, that I believe they are authored by the Holy Ghost, they must admit to the truth. The truth being that all of their clergy including their bishops were prayed upon and commissioned by the Holy Apostolic Church of the Middle East that was called the church of Babylon mentioned in 1 Peter 5:13.

Having said that the pope and the Roman Catholic Church cannot hijack Christianity and make it their own baby because they fall under the ecclesiastical Great Commission priestly authority that commissioned them in the first place.

So the church of Babylon that commissioned them is now been depicted by God as the little Joseph the brother of the older brothers that sold him out remember. Now this church was sold out by his bigger brothers back around 431 AD due to the Roman Catholic prerogative.

Therefore let me prophesy onto you right now that it is this little Joseph the insignificant sold out brother that they have called the Nestorian church that is where The Lord resides his authority through his prophet and he will gather all these bigger brothers to come at his feet and listen to the word of the Lord, in the final hour when there will come a spiritual famine for the word of God in the hour of temptation that comes upon all the inhabitants of earth.

It is by revelation that God will use what has become the small church of babylon mentioned in 1 Peter 5:13 that was repelled back in 431 AD when the Roman Catholic Church started its path towards dominating Christianity as their own baby by first breaking apart the commissioned authority of the 1st century church into fragmented pieces by perpetrating the schism that came later and then now it has cunningly through the ecumenical councils tried to back all these pieces it had once fragmented back together under the guise of the ecclesiastical authority. It is a take over by stealth.

They are doing a Mohammad on the Christian world by first accepting the infidels that they look down upon the Christian world outside of their ecclesiastical power vacuum and then once their victims are coerced to join their bandwagon they slowly work towards destroying the other faiths and leading them all back to Rome. As the saying goes all roads lead to Rome.

Let me prophesy again this will not happen and Christianity will oppose right to the death this hideous action that has been happening ever so slowly to bring back even the Protestant movements under the papacy banner of Rome. Again The Lord will not allow this and it will fail and Rome will then show its teeth after it fails just like it has in the past for he true Christian church.

If they can't win the world at large by stealth and decorative tactics then they will resort to violence as their character trade mark of the past.

Come on a leopard doesn't change his spots does he?

 

[Standing Up]

#33,34The One True Church is made up of all true believers scattered throughout all denominations.
The One True Church is not a visible institution.

Since humans are sinful the Church has always been corrupt. And for the same reasons, the Reformation failed. Perhaps tomorrow with Abba's help we can all succeed.

Yes, all human organizations are corrupt because they are composed of humans. To conflate a human organization with the Church of Jesus Christ is a great deception.

This is such an incredible observation of exactly the problem that exists.

Truly, like other items pointed out, truly #33 and #34 are true, are not errors, rather than believing some institution is somehow saved or the source of one's salvation as a substitute for the Lord Jesus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

... I believe the Bible is complete and is composed of 66 books.

...

That's your choice. It's in the list of protestant errors and inventions for a reason.

The sacred and holy, ecumenical, and general Synod of Trent,--lawfully assembled in the Holy Ghost, the Same three legates of the Apostolic Sec presiding therein,--keeping this always in view, that, errors being removed, the purity itself of the Gospel be preserved in the Church; which (Gospel), before promised through the prophets in the holy Scriptures, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, first promulgated with His own mouth, and then commanded to be preached by His Apostles to every creature, as the fountain of all, both saving truth, and moral discipline; and seeing clearly that this truth and discipline are contained in the written books, and the unwritten traditions which, received by the Apostles from the mouth of Christ himself, or from the Apostles themselves, the Holy Ghost dictating, have come down even unto us, transmitted as it were from hand to hand; (the Synod) following the examples of the orthodox Fathers, receives and venerates with an equal affection of piety, and reverence, all the books both of the Old and of the New Testament--seeing that one God is the author of both --as also the said traditions, as well those appertaining to faith as to morals, as having been dictated, either by Christ's own word of mouth, or by the Holy Ghost, and preserved in the Catholic Church by a continuous succession. And it has thought it meet that a list of the sacred books be inserted in this decree, lest a doubt may arise in any one's mind, which are the books that are received by this Synod. They are as set down here below: of the Old Testament:

• the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy;
• Josue,
• Judges,
• Ruth,
• four books of Kings,
• two of Paralipomenon,
• the first book of Esdras,
• and the second which is entitled Nehemias;
• Tobias,
• Judith,
• Esther,
• Job,
• the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms;
• the Proverbs,
• Ecclesiastes,
• the Canticle of Canticles,
• Wisdom,
• Ecclesiasticus,
• Isaias,
• Jeremias,
• with Baruch;
• Ezechiel,
• Daniel;
• the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias;
• two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.

Of the New Testament:

• the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John;
• the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist;
• fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews;
• two of Peter the apostle,
• three of John the apostle,
• one of the apostle James,
• one of Jude the apostle,
• and the Apocalypse of John the apostle.

But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema. Let all, therefore, understand, in what order, and in what manner, the said Synod, after having laid the foundation of the Confession of faith, will proceed, and what testimonies and authorities it will mainly use in confirming dogmas, and in restoring morals in the Church.
-- The Council of Trent, The Fourth Session: DECREE CONCERNING THE CANONICAL SCRIPTURES​

 

[Serpentslayer]

Yes that I agree 100% but however the congregation that traces back to the church of Babylon will play the role of the little Joseph that will feed all these churches in the hour of temptation that comes upon the inhabitants of the world when there will be a famine for the word of God.

 

[Serpentslayer]

This is a revelation from God and we as Christians are obligated to test by scripture and the events in time the prophesy in that matter. We cannot just quench the Spirit expecting that an answer to the prophesy will be available right there and then to prove or disprove.


The sovereign lords will is according to his appointed time, yet the prophet will declare the word before the event in time. It is the way it has been throughout history.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Go for it that you feel RC is the armpit.

Have you some other point you'd like to make?

I made no such implication regarding my Catholic Brothers, however there are certain protestant interpretations that I would think would likely be found much lower than the arm-pit, and somewhat stinkier too; however the body needs that part too!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Your quip just exposes your ignorance on the original issue of heretical baptism, which was the topic.

More likely it exposes your inability or your unwillingness to document your absurd claims.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nah, Maccabees itself disclaims any inspiration for itself. It's mere bishop opinion that it made its way into certain groups as on par with the inspired books (aka 66 book bible).

Perhaps you'll document where 1 or 2 Maccabees disclaims inspiration? If you don't or can't then your claim is dismissed.

 

[MoreCoffee]

This begs the question: how do you define "error"?

"begs the question" is fallacy also known as "circular reasoning". Why do you think that "#1 is truly an error" begs the question?. #1 being "A bible with only 66 books."

"how do I define error?" I don't, I let dictionaries do that. "error" is such a simple word that one wonders why you'd ask me for a definition.

....

For the rest of your post, a quote from a web site, why not use the web to find your answer. Use the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for example, or Catholic Answers. There are many web pages that answer the web page you quoted.

I don't look up dictionaries to find out why "a Bible with only 66 books" is allegedly an "error".

That's good. I didn't ask you to look up a dictionary for "why a [Protestant] bible has only 66 books". I asked you to look up "error" if you wanted a definition of the word "error". You'd asked me "how do you define "error?". I told you how I define it. I define it by using the dictionary definition for the word "error".

Nor do I intend to do a search on the Web for catholic answers.

Great! Then you need not bother looking up web sites to cut & past as a question for me. It's only fair that I should ask you to look up the web pages that answer the web page you cut & pasted. It's a case of like for like.

If you don't want to answer my questions just don't do it.

I gave an appropriate answer - "look it up" just like you looked up the web page from which you cut & pasted.

I believe the Bible is complete and is composed of 66 books.

Yes, that seems to be the case. You do appear to believe in a bible with only 66 books. It's one of the errors in the list.

"If you continue in My word . . . you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (John 8:31-32).

Yeah, great verse snippet. The full quote says, "Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:31-32) Obviously Jesus was not referring to the KJV

 

[tadoflamb]

Christianity existed before Roman Catholic Church......

Thanks, but that one's already made the list. IIRC, there's at least four different dates listed as to when the Roman Catholic Church was founded.

 

[Isatis]

Great! Then you need not bother looking up web sites to cut & past as a question for me.

Agreed. I actually intended to follow up on that with someone else after reading your first response in the series.

 

[MoreCoffee]

A little tidying of the list, Moved some elements into better positions and removed one, made one a sub-point of another. I also shortened descriptions to make room for new list elements

1. A bible with only 66 books.
2. Saint Paul's letters are not inspired.
3. Sola Scriptura - In English "Scripture alone" is the theory (unsupported by sacred scripture) that "all things necessary for God's glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: to which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or apostolic tradition".
4. Prima Scriptura - A doctrine teaching that besides canonical scripture, there are other guides for what a believer should believe, and how he or she should live; the ways of knowing or understanding God and his will, that do not originate from canonized scripture, are in a second place, perhaps helpful in interpreting that scripture, but testable by the canon and correctable by it, if they seem to contradict the scriptures.[Editorial note: in many ways Prima Scriptura is an improvement over sola scriptura, it does, however, suffer from the core disadvantage of sola scriptura in that it is neither a teaching of scripture itself nor does it adequately deal with Apostolic Tradition and Magisterial authority.]
5. Personal interpretation of scripture as normative for individual faith content determination.
6. Arminianism.
   Arminianism is based on the theological ideas of the previously Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609) and his historic supporters known as the Remonstrants. ... They asserted that:
   

   1. election (and condemnation on the day of judgment) was conditioned by the rational faith or nonfaith of man;
   2. the Atonement, while qualitatively adequate for all men, is efficacious only for the man of faith;
   3. unaided by the Holy Spirit, no person is able to respond to God’s will;
   4. grace is resistible; and
   5. believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.

   ​
7. Faith alone - In Latin "sola fide" is the theory (unsupported by scripture fact) that salvation is obtained by faith alone.
8. Antinomianism.
   In Christianity, an antinomian is "one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation". ... Antinomianism in modern times is commonly seen as the theological opposite to Legalism or Works righteousness, the notion that obedience to religious law earns salvation. This makes antinomianism an exaggeration of justification by faith alone. -- Wikipedia​
9. Total depravity - one of the five points of Calvinism (All human beings are affected by sin in every area of thought and conduct so that nothing that comes out of anyone apart from the regenerating grace of God can please God. As far as our relationships to God are concerned, we are all so ruined by sin that no one can properly understand either God or God's ways. Nor do we seek God, unless He is first at work within us to lead us to do so).
10. Unconditional election - second point of Calvinism (If sinners are as helpless in their depravity as the Bible says they are, unable to know and unwilling to seek God, then the only way they could possibly be saved is for God to take the initiative to change and save them. This is what election means. It is God choosing to save those who, apart from His sovereign choice and subsequent action, certainly would perish.).
11. Limited atonement - third point of Calvinism (Reformed theology stresses that Jesus actually atoned for the sins of those the Father had chosen. He actually propitiated the wrath of God toward His people by taking their judgment upon Himself, actually redeemed them, and actually reconciled those specific persons to God. A better name for "limited" atonement would be "particular" or "specific" redemption.).
12. Irresistible grace - fourth point of Calvinism (When God works in our hearts, regenerating us and creating a renewed will within, then what was undesirable before becomes highly desirable, and we run to Jesus just as previously we ran away from Him. Fallen sinners do resist God's grace, but His regenerating grace is effectual. It overcomes sin and accomplishes God's purpose).
13. Perseverance of the saints - the fifth point of Calvinism (You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.)
14. Once saved always saved.
    1. Once saved always saved even when one denies the faith some time after being saved.
    2. Rededications even though once saved always saved.
15. Double predestination. [In the Reformed view God from all eternity decrees some to election and positively intervenes in their lives to work regeneration and faith by a monergistic work of grace. To the non-elect God withholds this monergistic work of grace, passing them by and leaving them to themselves. He does not monergistically work sin or unbelief in their lives. Even in the case of the "hardening" of the sinners' already recalcitrant hearts, God does not, as Luther stated, "work evil in us (for hardening is working evil) by creating fresh evil in us." -- R. C. Sproul]
16. Lapsarianism:The logical order of God's decrees in Calvinist theology is the study of the logical order (in God's mind, before Creation) of the decree to ordain or allow the fall of man and reprobation in relation to his decree to elect and save sinners. Several opposing positions have been proposed, all of which have names with the Latin root lapsus meaning fall.
    1. Supralapsaranism.
    2. Infralapsarianism/Sublapsarianism.
17. Penal substitutionary atonement - A widespread Reformed conception of the Atonement is that in Christ’s Passion and death, God the Father poured out all of His wrath for the sins of the elect, on Christ the Son. In Christ’s Passion and death, Christ bore the punishment of the Father’s wrath that the elect deserved for their sins.
18. Ordinances/Anti-sacramentalism.
19. Infant dedication (not baptism) in a worship-service. [This is a common practise in many groups but rarely has a formal doctrine accompanying it as an explanation of why it is done.]
20. It isn't baptism unless one is submerged.
21. Only people old enough to say the sinner's prayer can be baptised.
22. One is born again by saying & believing the sinner's prayer (or a near equivalent).
23. Believer's baptism as a public testimony to one's faith but not as the washing away of one's sins nor as the means by which God brings about the birth from above.
24. Covenant baptism as a sign and symbol of inclusion into the new covenant community but not as the means by which God gives sanctifying grace.
25. The Lord's supper as sign and symbol but not as the body and blood of the Lord.
26. Two greater and five lesser Sacraments
27. Dispensing with baptism and the Lord's supper altogether. [A few groups have dropped all sacraments.]
28. The rapture
    1. A pre tribulation rapture.
    2. A mid tribulation rapture.
    3. A post tribulation rapture.
29. A future seven year reign of anti-christ with three and a half years of Israelite temple worship.
30. Dispensationalism: scripture must be rightly divided by applying a scheme of dispensations to it; usually seven dispensations are taken as normative but other additional dispensations are sometimes included.
31. The sermon on the mount as "old testament teaching" that's not applicable under the new covenant.
32. Sermon centric worship - being an explanation of the meaning of the text of scripture or a lesson on morals or doctrine for the instruction of the congregation - is the central act of worship in the gathering of the Lord's people on the Lord's day.
33. The One True Church is not a visible institution.
    1. The One True Church is made up of all true believers scattered throughout all denominations.
34. Denominationalism.
35. Rejection of the threefold office in the church. Deacon, Presbyter, and Bishop are the offices identified in sacred scripture and present in the church from the beginning. Some protestant bodies reduce this to Deacon and Elder some to Deacon and Pastor and some teach Deacon, Elder, and Pastor with Pastor distinguished only by being the "teaching elder" in a congregation.
36. Rejection of clerical laity distinction in the church.
37. The pulpit ought to be the focus of a church building's architecture and the table for use on communion ought to be to the side or located in a different part of the church because there is no altar in the church and no sacrifice is made in a church service.
38. Equivocating "worship" and "worship service" - meaning that worship in a small group consisting of two or more is the same as the 'worship service' one would normally experience on a Sunday in a church [building]. [Not a formal doctrine but a widely held view of Christian worship among some of those in denominations and also some in non-denominational and other groups.]
39. Lone ranger Christianity - the belief that one need not be associated with any church or group. While this is not a denominational belief it is sufficiently widespread to make a kind of theology of its own.
40. Emerging church movement; Emerging churches are fluid, hard to define, and varied; they contrast themselves with what has gone before by using the term "inherited church." Key themes of the emerging church are couched in the language of reform, Praxis-oriented lifestyles, Post-evangelical thought, and incorporation or acknowledgement of political and Post-modern elements. ... -- from Wikipedia
41. Prosperity gospel: Prosperity theology (sometimes referred to as the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel, or the gospel of success) is a Christian religious doctrine that financial blessing is the will of God for Christians, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to Christian ministries will always increase one's material wealth.
42. Congregations electing their ministers.
43. Seeker sensitive churches.
44. Accountability partners.
45. Altar calls.
46. Church discipline effectively nullified because of the difficulty of enforcement in a multi-denominational community.
47. Temperance movement. ... Alcohol is wicked, "a devil's brew".
48. Old covenant Dietary laws applied to new covenant Christians: Christians shall have no shellfish, crustaceans, pork, or any 'unclean meat' because they are forbidden in the Law of Moses.
49. The papacy is the antichrist.
50. A specific pope will be the antichrist.
51. Michael the Archangel and Jesus being the same person.
52. Heaven being in the Orion nebula.
53. Soul Sleep: Death is an unconscious, sleep-like state. When Jesus Christ comes again, He will resurrect the dead who believe in Him and will take them to heaven. The dead who are unbelievers will be resurrected 1000 years later.
54. For a period of a thousand years the earth will be utterly desolate and only Satan and his angels will be on earth. At the end of the thousand years the the Holy City in heaven will descend to earth. The unrighteous dead will be resurrected and with Satan and his angels, they will surround the Holy City to attack God and His people. God will destroy Satan and his followers, hence removing sin forever.
55. Trail of blood - also known as Baptist successionism. It is the theory (unsupported by fact) that Jesus Christ is the founder of the Baptist denomination (Which in fact started around 1605 AD in England).
56. The Jesuit oath - An absurd fake oath that among other things says "make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons".
57. Oneness (denying the Trinity) - some might think this is a non-christian sect's doctrine while others are inclined to believe that Oneness Pentecostalism is within the confines of Christianity.

 

[Serpentslayer]

You're adding more to this verse than what it says. There is no guarantee that error will not be taught.



The church is not limited to only the apostles and their successors. And this verse says nothing about the churches authroity to teach on "morals". If you didn't notice, the disciples weren't making up teachings, but expounding upon what had already been taught in the scriptures.



There is no indication that this has anything to do with infallible doctrine. Jesus said this to the disciples before His death. Knowing how they'd be crushed once they saw Him die, He knew He'd have to wait till after the resurrection to teach them more. You are implying more here than what the scripture says. Nowhere does the bible speak about "public" revelation coming to an end. I do agree however that some things take longer to understand and that God will open up truths to our hearts over time, the caveat there being that those truths are opened up to us as we study and pray.



While I believe this applies to the church, i.e those who follow after Christ, this verse says nothing about it being solely for the "Church" i.e the RCC. Some things may take time to understand because they are a bit meatier, but this is no statement showing that certain doctrine will eventually be developed once the people are ready to receive it.

The concept that the Roman Catholic Church or any ecclesiastical power is 100% inerrant is a view founded upon a doctrine of men who seek to play kingdom building.

The 1st century Apostolic Church is by no means to be compared to the current state of the church in the 21st century.

There is every indication that today's church has conformed to the ways of this world and has made many concessions that have placed it out of Satan's radar.

You can see evidence that where a church is being persecuted there is every chance that the devil has sent out an all out hit bulletin on them in order to silence them. Orthodox Christianity which is by definition a persecuted and martyred church is counted by the world as fundamentalist and will be opposed if it so happens to testify of the truth and nothing but the truth of Christ.

You see today the ecclesiastical powers that be are surrendering their spiritual God given weapons in order to survive another day, whilst in the 1st century Apostolic Church it was all out for broke or nothing. Today's church is sitting on its back side as it back slides and makes friends with the world in order to attain the worldly man made universal peace without the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus.

Roman Catholic Church is perpetrating such venture called the ecumenical faith and outer faith movements and councils around the world.

I would like to declare to you, this will never happen. There is no peace without Christ and if you make peace with the world this will be regarded as MUTANY by The Lord and so any soldier of the cross that mutinies will be shot down spiritually by his own side.

What will it be 100% Christ and his ways and prepare to be persecuted and killed or make friends with the world to survive another day?

 

[MoreCoffee]

The concept that the Roman Catholic Church or any ecclesiastical power is 100% inerrant is a view founded upon a doctrine of men who seek to play kingdom building.
...

Oh dear; 100% eh? You plucked that one out of thin air

Perhaps you can document it?

100%

 

[Serpentslayer]

Saint Paul tells Timothy the IF THEN conditional statement that applies to the true church and that is:

IF YOU SUFFER PERSECUTION FOR CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS
THEN YOU ARE LIVING GODLY IN CHRIST JESUS

2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Is the ecclesiastical powers that be running from city to city from their persecutors, or are they living it up comfortably and spiritually sleeping with the leaders of the secular world.

Come on! come on! Be honest!

Where are they in the LADDER RUNG according to Christ's beatitudes?

Matthew 5:3-13

The Beatitudes
(Psalm 1:1-6; Luke 6:20-23)

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Salt and Light
(Philippians 2:12-18)

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Notice that Christ's beatitudes IS the LADDER RUNG for the true church.

If you don't understand the listen:

Consider the first and the last of the sequential eight beatitudes:

FIRST: Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs IS the kingdom of heaven.

EIGHTH: Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs IS the kingdom of heaven.

Notice first the present tense verb IS which is present tense participle that is a RESULT OF WHAT?

The first beatitude conveys the ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the spiritual impoverishment of the church in declaring in their hearts to God, we have absolutely nothing to offer and that we are spiritually broke and solely reliant on you oh Lord, FOR OUR HANDS HAVE NOTHING TO GIVE THEE AND TO YOUR CROSS WE CLING.

Today's state of the church has become in their minds self reliant and self sufficient as to not even require to hop on to the first rung of the ladder of Christ's beatitudes to ACKNOWLEDGE how spiritually impoverished they are in order to be Godly in Christ.

So there is this ever present Pious and Kingdom building at play within the ecclesiastical ranks within the church.

Next!

The eighth beatitude is the top of the ladder rung of Christ's beatitudes and the IF THEN conditional statement that Saint Paul warned Timothy about was the:

IF YOU STAND UP FOR CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS
THEN YOU WILL 100% EXPECT PERSECUTION

So based on this alone we see the 21st century church not acknowledging how poor and spiritually impoverished they really are by not even wanting to hop onto the first ladder rung of Christ's beatitudes and they are no where near the top of the rung that represents Christ's righteousness as this would according to Saint Paul's conditional statement above invite persecution.

The Catholic Church is inviting all faiths, snake worshippers, idol worshippers and witchcraft and occultists along with what they are labelling 21st century ecumenical Christianity in an orgy fest of universal peace with Christ no where in sight.

Mmmmmmmmm!

So what has happened to the SALT.

Well read the context of what Jesus said after his eight beatitudes:

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

As I have been saying all along if you read all my posts you will discern the same Spirit wielding me, that the ecclesiastical authority that has been kingdom building for the last hundred or so years is going to be SPAT OUT as SALT THAT HAS LOST ITS FLAVOUR.

I prophesied that all patriarchs and bishops will be disposed of and only a priestly commissioned will carry the remaining church band wagon onto Calvary before the great and terrible day.

That is why there is a need for the end time commissioned Elijah to bring the sword of God by severing those wolves that have infiltrated the Apostolic Churches and made positions in high places for themselves and have placed themselves as the authority in matters without the need of Christ.

Saying we believe in Christ does not make you Christ's friends just though I remind you of what is written in scripture.

 

[Standing Up]

More likely it exposes your inability or your unwillingness to document your absurd claims.

I provided the links before. Something about your group not having Sunday School.

Here's a start for you, if you'll read the sources, rather than the interpretations.

ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

there are other letters in the series besides that one. have fun and report back to us.

 

[Standing Up]

Perhaps you'll document where 1 or 2 Maccabees disclaims inspiration? If you don't or can't then your claim is dismissed.

Josephus will set the stage.

8. For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, [as the Greeks have,] but only twenty-two books, (8) which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine; and of them five belong to Moses, which contain his laws and the traditions of the origin of mankind till his death. This interval of time was little short of three thousand years; but as to the time from the death of Moses till the reign of Artaxerxes king of Persia, who reigned after Xerxes, the prophets, who were after Moses, wrote down what was done in their times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God, and precepts for the conduct of human life. It is true, our history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly, but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers, because there hath not been an exact succession of prophets since that time; and how firmly we have given credit to these books of our own nation is evident by what we do; for during so many ages as have already passed, no one has been so bold as either to add any thing to them, to take any thing from them, or to make any change in them; but it is become natural to all Jews immediately, and from their very birth, to esteem these books to contain Divine doctrines, and to persist in them, and, if occasion be willingly to die for them. For it is no new thing for our captives, many of them in number, and frequently in time, to be seen to endure racks and deaths of all kinds upon the theatres, that they may not be obliged to say one word against our laws and the records that contain them; whereas there are none at all among the Greeks who would undergo the least harm on that account, no, nor in case all the writings that are among them were to be destroyed; for they take them to be such discourses as are framed agreeably to the inclinations of those that write them; and they have justly the same opinion of the ancient writers, since they see some of the present generation bold enough to write about such affairs, wherein they were not present, nor had concern enough to inform themselves about them from those that knew them; examples of which may be had in this late war of ours, where some persons have written histories, and published them, without having been in the places concerned, or having been near them when the actions were done; but these men put a few things together by hearsay, and insolently abuse the world, and call these writings by the name of Histories.
Against Apion 1:8

And now 1 Macc 9:27

[27] Thus there was great distress in Israel, such as had not been since the time that prophets ceased to appear among them.

14:41 [41]
"And the Jews and their priests decided that Simon should be their leader and high priest for ever, until a trustworthy prophet should arise,

And of course there are Christ's words that also confirm all of this.

IIRC, all of the apocrapha was written after Artixerxes, during the time when the lineage of prophets had ceased. Therefore, all of them are uninspired, unlike God-breathed scripture (aka 66 books).