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Here are statistics published by CARA which is part of Georgetown University.
Catholic Data, Catholic Statistics, Catholic Research
A particular statistic that I found interesting is the tremendous increase in permanent deacons in both the US and the rest of the world while the total number of priest in the US dropped dramatically and remained relatively flat for the rest of the world.
Did you happen to see this previous post of mine?And there are a lot of other reasons that no doubt contribute, but at least you recognize that there IS a shortage.
I reckon that Catholic priests are in short supply in some areas because training a priest takes a lot of time and effort.
In some non-denominational groups training a pastor doesn't take a lot of time or effort.
Maybe even longer, if you read Galatians a certain way...He was in the desert a good long time...I reckon some have absolutely no training at all. I've met quite a few who openly admit to it. But they generally say the Holy Spirit taught them overnight. Odd that it took three years for St. Paul.
Not real sure, but consider this:
In my diocese, a priest, whether bishop, monsignior, pastor, associate pastor, or auxiliary, earns $25,000 a year. He's expected to live on the grounds of the parish, if he's the pastor, and if not the pastor, has to live where they give him to live. If we were to allow married clergy, do you think a couple could live on that salary, even if they were permitted to live on church property? Also, what does that do to health care costs, insurance, etc?
For practical reasons, I don't see it happening any time soon. I have heard Protestant pastors, who are supposedly full time, needing to take on a second or third job in order to support the family. This does not leave any time for the pastor to pastor.
Not real sure, but consider this:
In my diocese, a priest, whether bishop, monsignior, pastor, associate pastor, or auxiliary, earns $25,000 a year. He's expected to live on the grounds of the parish, if he's the pastor, and if not the pastor, has to live where they give him to live. If we were to allow married clergy, do you think a couple could live on that salary, even if they were permitted to live on church property? Also, what does that do to health care costs, insurance, etc?
For practical reasons, I don't see it happening any time soon. I have heard Protestant pastors, who are supposedly full time, needing to take on a second or third job in order to support the family. This does not leave any time for the pastor to pastor.
You really don't know anything about Lutheranism, do you?
I don't believe that's what I said. It's a by-product. That a parish pays for its clergy would be a factor.So the discipline to remain single is about practicality and cutting costs?
I don't believe that's what I said. It's a by-product. That a parish pays for its clergy would be a factor.
The fact is that the Church tells its priests "In order to be a priest, you must give up your sexuality." By extension, if the Church allowed married men to become priests, those men would need to earn more to support their family, so either would need a second job, or the Church would need to pay them, and so the parish would have to pay them. There's a lot of other considerations I haven't mentioned. Priests, by nature, must be ready to move to a different post on short notice, for one.
Were you expected to provide your own housing and utilities? Health care? Food? Car? Much of this is provided for the priest. Not a car, nor gas or auto insurance.Well I won't say that I was paid to the point of luxury but they don't have a Walmart in the Congo so there really wasn't much to spend a load on. And now, come on. Is that all the church can afford to support a parish priest in the West? The little (about 120 member of which about 75 were regular)Baptist Church i pastored paid me around 40k a good ways back and managed to build a new building, support a home for troubled girls and two South American missions and still tithed to the conference.
My wife used to laugh after i was placed in my Parish when she'd see my pay, saying. "Well, you are definitely not in this for the money.
You have a valid point. But just like a vow of celibacy one needs to consider these things beforehand. I agree that one in a pastoral position does not have the time for a second job. That is if he's really going to do the work.Yes brother, it is easier for one to be unmarried and be a priest. My wife has quite a few friends who are wives of priests. She can give you a long list of gripes. It takes a special woman to be married to a man who can't always put her first after Christ in his attention. I'm a fortunate man to be married to such a woman .Presbytera is the title she is given in the Greek side of Orthodoxy. The Church sees her being a part of my Orders as we were joined as one. While she has no given authority she definitely is a great deal of help.In the area I ministered in the locals called her Kidogo Mama (little mother in Swahili) and she was revered highly by them in her role. While the church didn't really define or authoritate her position the people seemed to have it laid out like a woman of intercessory prayer. I think women came to her with as many prayer request as they did me. She stayed busy especially with women's problems.
So why am I telling you this? Just to show there are some advantages along with the hindrances. I'd add counseling troubled marriages into that as an unmarried man doesn't quite see the picture as clearly.
No worries though as I'm sure if rome decided to make the return, as a good catholic you'll deal with it. If not then also no worries.
Were you expected to provide your own housing and utilities? Health care? Food? Car? Much of this is provided for the priest. Not a car, nor gas or auto insurance.
Well, in a way, the priest is married, and has children. He's married to the Church, to the parish. The flock is his children. He can talk about things like what marriage means in terms of 100% committment, no matter what, come he** or high water.
I don't think I'm leaving the one true Church because Rome makes an administrative change. My parish priest is in his 60's and knew as a boy of 10 that he was going to be a priest, and was ready to say "Here I am, Lord." I also know married priests who were Anglican prior to becoming Catholic. I don't see a drop-off. But I've not been his flock, either. B ut I know he runs a good parish.
If only it were that simple!I know a little about Luther but he wasn't Crucified for us, and he wasn't an apostle that Jesus gave the commission to. I'm not a Lutheran, i'm a Christian. Can Luther add to the Gospel given by the Lord and the NT apostles? I dont want anything to do with any doctrine connected with RC, Luther was RC and was taught by RC wasn't he?
Christ is all we need.
If only it were that simple!
.
We don't believe that this passage says that the Church can't require celibacy of her priests. It says, better, that a bishop cannot be someone who's divorced and remarried, etc., a list the qualifications required: personal stability and graciousness; talent for teaching (1 Tm 3:2); moderation in habits and temperament (1 Tm 3:3); managerial ability (1 Tm 3:4); and experience in Christian living (1 Tm 3:56). Moreover, the candidates previous life should provide no grounds for the charge that he did not previously practice what he now preaches. No list of qualifications for presbyters appears in 1 Timothy.Read this scripture in order, look at the context which speaks of married bishops then see how it moves right into the prophecy in chapter 4:1-3. It seems undeniable that RC is teaching a false doctrine concerning priests.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
We don't believe that this passage says that the Church can't require celibacy of her priests. It says, better, that a bishop cannot be someone who's divorced and remarried, etc., a list the qualifications required: personal stability and graciousness; talent for teaching (1 Tm 3:2); moderation in habits and temperament (1 Tm 3:3); managerial ability (1 Tm 3:4); and experience in Christian living (1 Tm 3:56). Moreover, the candidates previous life should provide no grounds for the charge that he did not previously practice what he now preaches. No list of qualifications for presbyters appears in 1 Timothy.
Regarding the second highlight, there is nothing that forbids men to marry. The requirement, rather, is that those who want to become priests must give up their sexuality. Sorta like giving the requirements to an athlete, that he must not eat certain foods, must not take steroids, and must get good sleep every night-if he doesn't, he shouldn't be an athlete.
Now just who's side are you on? The EO? Laa dee daa
That's fine, but I hope you're not one of those Yogi Berra guys...I respectfully disagree.
Tis called being "closed minded"That's fine, but I hope you're not one of those Yogi Berra guys...
"When you come to a fork in the road...take it."
There are some life decisions that totally close the door for other possibilities.....
Here is one, but alas, it is still closed for review
Now just who's side are you on? The EO?Laa dee daa
Any side but the RC side?i was thinking something like that after posting it . hehe
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