Protestant errors and inventions (3)

[Thekla]

Also the accusation of "condoning magic"; in Exodus we have God commanding the making of a bronze serpent to use to free His people from the real serpents; we have the washing and regeneration of Baptism using water; we have the Eucharist using only bread and wine; Christ made mud and put on the blind man's eyes to heal him, etc. etc.

If the apocryphal books condone magic, they the rest of God's Holy Word does also.

Exactly

 

[Isatis]

What is the difference between magic and a miracle?

 

[Rev Randy]

What is the difference between magic and a miracle?

One is an illusion and the other is real.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What is the difference between magic and a miracle?

One is an illusion and the other is real.

How about in Exodus and the confrontations between Moses and Pharaoh and the Egyptians?

Exodus 4:21 And YAHWEH is saying to Moses in to go of thee to turn back Egypt-ward "see thou! all of the miracles which I place in hand of thee and thou do to them before Pharoah
and I shall make steadfast the heart of him and not he shall dismiss the people"

Exodus 7:11 And Pharaoh however is calling to wise-men and to ones making enchantments/03784 kashaph
and they are doing, even they, sacred scribes of Egypt in occultisms of them so.




.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yes, the Catholic Bible was presented to the world by the Council of Trent which set the number of books at 72. As we all know, the Council of Trent was the first major volley by the Catholic Church against the Reformation. It was impossible for Protestants to strike 6 books from the Bible given the fact that until the Council of Trent the number of books in the Bible had not been officially determined by the Catholic Church.

Actually, that's wrong. It was codified at the Council because Protestants didn't like those books. We affirmed that they are Canonical. They were listed in the Council of Rome, though, very early on.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'd take that a bit further saying a great number of people professing Christ have not even read the 66 books they hold as Cannon. It's a shame.
I take it that you have read the Deuterocanonical Books? If so, I find your last statement odd or at least unconvincing.
We also have three synoptic Gospels and one topical Gospel. All tell the same story. Now I bet you can learn something different from each. Anytime the penman changed so does the point of view. From that alone one can grasp new things.
The Deuterocanonical Books are quite easily found online and free to be read.
I'm not sure what catholic. orgs problem was but it's not a common problem with Catholic websites. I won't challenge the "most Catholics" statement any more than I'd challenge a statement like most baptist have never read the entire Protestant. In either case most have heard it.

Yes, I agree that the vast majority of professing Christians have little or no knowledge of the Bible despite the fact that it is so readily available. That is, indeed, a great shame.

I also agree that the Deuterocanonical books are not without value. They certainly shed light on the period of time between the two Testaments (commonly known as the time of the Maccabees). I vividly remember staying at a B&B in Phildadelphia on fall. A young Lutheran pastor was there with his wife. He was leading a study in a Lutheran church on the inter-testamental period. Our hosts were Conservative Jews. Over breakfast they asked him what he was doing. When he told them, he drew blank looks from them as they had no idea about any inter-testamental period. I interjected that he was teaching about the time of the Maccabees and then they easily understood. I think he had never made the connection between the two.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Did anyone notice what the greek word for "pharisee" denotes in the NT?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS THE PHARISEES


Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh/faraw <5328> "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the land."

Revelation 9:21 And not they repent/reform out of their murders, nor out from their sorceries/farmakeiwn <5331>.........

5330. Pharisaios of Hebrew origin (c a separatist, i.e. exclusively religious; a Pharisean, i.e. Jewish sectary:--Pharisee.
5328. Pharao of foreign origin (6547); Pharao (i.e. Pharoh), an Egyptian king:--Pharaoh.
2447. ios perhaps from eimi (to go) or hiemi (to send); rust (as if emitted by metals); also venom (as emitted by serpents):--poison, rust. AV - poison 2, rust 1; 3

5331. pharmakeia from 5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft

.


.

you know, i've made associations before just from the way people used the christian elements . but yes . this is indeed very interesting . hehe

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How about in Exodus and the confrontations between Moses and Pharaoh and the Egyptians?

Exodus 4:21 And YAHWEH is saying to Moses in to go of thee to turn back Egypt-ward "see thou! all of the miracles which I place in hand of thee and thou do to them before Pharoah
and I shall make steadfast the heart of him and not he shall dismiss the people"

Exodus 7:11 And Pharaoh however is calling to wise-men and to ones making enchantments/03784 kashaph
and they are doing, even they, sacred scribes of Egypt in occultisms of them so.




.

ah yes going back to egypt ..

turning back to the law . etc .

good one .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Rev Randy

I'd take that a bit further saying a great number of people professing Christ have not even read the 66 books they hold as Cannon. It's a shame.

​

Which begs the question, how many books are enough?

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1

According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB?
The wise man said,

"...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life.
Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order.
However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

But God is also producing a book – a book containing a message of life. For the past two millenniums God, by His Holy Spirit, has been writing portions of this Book in the minds and hearts of His people........

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ah yes going back to egypt ..

turning back to the law . etc .

good one .

Egypt is also mentioned in Revelation 11:8 and there is quite an interesting discussion thread on what Egypt is symbolizing in that verse.....


http://www.christianforums.com/t7570002/
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

Revelation 11:8 and their dead-bodies upon the broadplace of the great City, which is being called spiritually/pneumatikwV <4153> Sodom and Egypt,
where even/also the Lord of them was crucified

Jesus was crucified in Rome, Alexandria is in Egypt but in Jesus day Alexandria was part of Rome., Rome WAS the world.

Just as Babylon became a world power, so did Rome.

Rome was the city in which Jesus was killed, not Jerusalem.

The Egyptians do put out some pretty kewl music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pd2sRrfoSE
.

 

[Rev Randy]

Which begs the question, how many books are enough?

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1

According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB?
The wise man said,

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life.
Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order.
However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

But God is also producing a book – a book containing a message of life. For the past two millenniums God, by His Holy Spirit, has been writing portions of this Book in the minds and hearts of His people........

.

I can think of a single verse that is enough for me. But I don't get to determine these things.

 

[Standing Up]

Also the accusation of "condoning magic"; in Exodus we have God commanding the making of a bronze serpent to use to free His people from the real serpents; we have the washing and regeneration of Baptism using water; we have the Eucharist using only bread and wine; Christ made mud and put on the blind man's eyes to heal him, etc. etc.

If the apocryphal books condone magic, they the rest of God's Holy Word does also.

Surely you can distinguish between these two things

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

​

Did anyone notice what the greek word for "pharisee" denotes in the NT?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS THE PHARISEES

​

Forgive me if I sound ignorant of some of the discussion, but I'm a bit confused. Can someone give me an example of a Protestant Error?

Also lol @ LLOJ, I'd like to purchase one.

Wonder where I can pick one up for a "sadducee"?

Matthew 3:7 Seeing yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon the baptism he said to them, prodigy of vipers!
who intimates to ye, to be fleeing from being about wrath?

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=3974

Being closely associated with the Temple, the Sadducees disappeared from history when the Temple was destroyed in 70.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
DESTRUCTION OF OC JERUSALEM AND IT'S TEMPLE PRIESTHOOD

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins ; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate................

.

 

[Isatis]

How come he doesn't have legs? Or is this a Pharisee EGG?

 

[Root of Jesse]

In fact, it's not that sexy a topic at all. These books are known to everyone to have a different character than the rest of the books of the Bible, only some of the Jews of Jesus' time accepted them as Scripture (unlike the Torah, etc.), and they were in question from the time that they were included in the canon right on up to the time of the Reformation when the Roman church again addressed the issue on its own.

To talk about the "Reformers removing...." is little more than an argument for the sake of an argument or, perhaps more accurately, an argument looking for an issue.

Actually, there was a whole sect of Judaism that didn't accept anything but the Torah as canonical. The fact is that there was no Jewish canon until Catholicism set their canon. And since they had an excuse, er, reason, to say that the Deuterocanon wasn't (because it was entirely written in Greek, and they decided it had to be in Hebrew to be considered canonical, all after the fact of the accepted Bible Canon of Christians), they chose not to include them. So Protestants said "We like the Jewish Canon because they don't include the Deuterocanon". (That's a characterization) But the question is this: Why should we look to the Jews to determine Christian Canon at all? Why couldn't Christianity choose other books, if Christianity wanted to? The reason is that the accepted Scriptures were used in the Liturgy. That's it. There were plenty of other books that were good for teaching, but not used in Liturgy. Shepherd of Hermas, and Dialogue with Trypho, among them.

Personally, I would tend to focus on what we have in common. It's much more important, honestly. The Devil is the great divider. Let's seek common ground...

 

[Rev Randy]

In fact, it's not that sexy a topic at all. These books are known to everyone to have a different character than the rest of the books of the Bible, only some of the Jews of Jesus' time accepted them as Scripture (unlike the Torah, etc.), and they were in question from the time that they were included in the canon right on up to the time of the Reformation when the Roman church again addressed the issue on its own.

To talk about the "Reformers removing...." is little more than an argument for the sake of an argument or, perhaps more accurately, an argument looking for an issue.

I disagree with the part I bolded. It is an inaccurate statement.

 

[Rev Randy]

Yes, I guess it is possible to name a dozen churches that accept the Apocrypha and a few thousand which do not. ZZzzzz.

Everything I wrote remains correct.

A few thousand resulting from what? It was an event that began at a point in time.I'm wondering prior to that point in time what Christian Church denied them outright?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Actually, there was a whole sect of Judaism that didn't accept anything but the Torah as canonical....

There is a sect within Christianity that mainly dwells, both on Judaism and the first 5 books of the OT [including keeping the Mosaic Sabbath]. Can you name it?


.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Egypt is also mentioned in Revelation 11:8 and there is quite an interesting discussion thread on what Egypt is symbolizing in that verse.....


http://www.christianforums.com/t7570002/
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

Revelation 11:8 and their dead-bodies upon the broadplace of the great City, which is being called spiritually/pneumatikwV <4153> Sodom and Egypt,
where even/also the Lord of them was crucified



The Egyptians do put out some pretty kewl music:

Ancient Egyptian Meditation Music Brought To You By Sharri Plaza - YouTube
.

So you're like saying going under the law is like crucifying Jesus all over again so to speak .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Forgive me if I sound ignorant of some of the discussion, but I'm a bit confused. Can someone give me an example of a Protestant Error?
Also lol @ LLOJ, I'd like to purchase one.

hehehe i'd like to buy a vowel .